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View Full Version : Double-teamed or not, this is absolutely pathetic...


shaneo69
09-20-2004, 12:06 PM
from KCStar.com...

Defense T A Tot.
Beisel 10 2 12
Fujita 6 4 10
Barber 7 1 8
Browning 4 3 7
Woods 4 2 6
Warfield 5 0 5
Dalton 3 0 3
McCleon 2 0 2
Pile 2 0 2
Bartee 2 0 2
Siavii 2 0 2
Hicks 2 0 2
Allen 1 0 1
Wilkerson 1 0 1
Totals 51 12 63


Anybody see Sims on this list?

ChiTown
09-20-2004, 12:09 PM
from KCStar.com...

Defense T A Tot.
Beisel 10 2 12
Fujita 6 4 10
Barber 7 1 8
Browning 4 3 7
Woods 4 2 6
Warfield 5 0 5
Dalton 3 0 3
McCleon 2 0 2
Pile 2 0 2
Bartee 2 0 2
Siavii 2 0 2
Hicks 2 0 2
Allen 1 0 1
Wilkerson 1 0 1
Totals 51 12 63


Anybody see Sims on this list?

Look, maybe you didn't hear. Sims was double teamed, dude. He's the only LDT in the history of the game to be DT'd. He took one for the team, and sacrificed his stats. He's worth his weight in gold, seriously......... :rolleyes:

GoTrav
09-20-2004, 12:13 PM
have a list of missed tackles?

Spicy McHaggis
09-20-2004, 12:13 PM
He is? Man and all this time I thought he was an underachiever. I bet I was misled by all Whitlocks columns. ROFL

Cannibal
09-20-2004, 12:14 PM
I made a point to watch his sorry ass quite often yesterday.

He sucked big dong all game long.

KC Jones
09-20-2004, 12:21 PM
I'm not going to say Sims is bad or good, but you really can't read too much into tackling totals to determine whether or not someone played well. If a DT shut down his lane, collapsed the pocket, and kept O-linemen off of the LBs then he did his job. Maybe not at the level you want of a 6th overall pick, but that's generally what you want out of a DT. Now I can't really say that I remember much good from Sims yesterday, but I remember being much more dissapointed in McCleon and Barber.

oldandslow
09-20-2004, 12:22 PM
Damn...

Even tho I hate it, I have to give props to Big Sexy on this one.

Perhaps his vision is less biased than DV.

I really wish Minnesota had their crap together during that draft.....

The Bad Guy
09-20-2004, 12:23 PM
I'm not going to say Sims is bad or good, but you really can't read too much into tackling totals to determine whether or not someone played well. If a DT shut down his lane, collapsed the pocket, and kept O-linemen off of the LBs then he did his job. Maybe not at the level you want of a 6th overall pick, but that's generally what you want out of a DT. Now I can't really say that I remember much good from Sims yesterday, but I remember being much more dissapointed in McCleon and Barber.

When you give up 180 yards rushing in two games, then your defensive tackles aren't worth shit. They aren't doing their jobs if you're getting run all over.

shaneo69
09-20-2004, 12:26 PM
Meanwhile, freakin' John Henderson is starring for the team who last year was 2nd in the league against the run and just held Q. Griffin to 2.6 yards per carry. And they have no DE's either.

KC Jones
09-20-2004, 12:30 PM
When you give up 180 yards rushing in two games, then your defensive tackles aren't worth shit. They aren't doing their jobs if you're getting run all over.

Now that's a valid statistic to use for that argument. The tackling stats are not.

FWIW - I thought the defense played pretty stellar in the first half. It was that 9 minutes of hell drive in the 3rd quarter that blew it all to hell. After that they were dog tired and seemed to have lost their confidence. I'll add that they did a decent job of stopping the run in that drive, but on repeated 3rd and longs DelHomme picked us apart. I'm much more concered about our CBs and LBs than our DTs. Barber and Dex on the same side of the field was like having a double bonus for Carolina.

tonyetony
09-20-2004, 12:32 PM
When you give up 180 yards rushing in two games, then your defensive tackles aren't worth shit. They aren't doing their jobs if you're getting run all over.

Not If They're doing it to the outside. Thats where the majority of rushing yards agaist us are coming from.

Mr. Laz
09-20-2004, 12:34 PM
from KCStar.com...

Defense T A Tot.
Beisel 10 2 12


in his 2nd game as a MLB ... :hmmm:


not bad, i hope he continues to improve

tonyetony
09-20-2004, 12:36 PM
Barber and Dex on the same side of the field was like having a double bonus for Carolina.


I agree completely! And those of you who don't, watch the game again like I did.

tonyetony
09-20-2004, 12:40 PM
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by shaneo69
from KCStar.com...

Defense T A Tot.
Beisel 10 2 12
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Damn near equals Kwikas Stats from all of 2003.
I am not giving up on him.

Lzen
09-20-2004, 01:13 PM
I don't understand why everyone is picking on Barber. I heard the guy on 610 this morning saying Barber has never done anything for the Chiefs. IIRC, he played pretty well in the playoff loss. He was the only bright spot on defense that day. And he got 8 tackles yesterday. Maybe I need to watch him more cause I haven't noticed him being that bad.

And Monte Beisel has played better than we could have expected, IMO.

J Diddy
09-20-2004, 01:17 PM
Barber and Dex on the same side of the field was like having a double bonus for Carolina.


I agree completely! And those of you who don't, watch the game again like I did.
how DID you watch the game?

KC Jones
09-20-2004, 01:45 PM
I don't understand why everyone is picking on Barber. I heard the guy on 610 this morning saying Barber has never done anything for the Chiefs. IIRC, he played pretty well in the playoff loss. He was the only bright spot on defense that day. And he got 8 tackles yesterday. Maybe I need to watch him more cause I haven't noticed him being that bad.

And Monte Beisel has played better than we could have expected, IMO.

He had a terrible game yesterday and against Denver IMO. He repeatedly gets sucked inside and lets the RB reach the corner. Remember how you saw Bartee fail to contain/stop Portis several times on the outside - yeah well that was Barber's side. Barber was nowhere in the area because... he got sucked inside. Maybe he's jsut trying to help Beisel too much, but running at Barber is paying dividends for our opponents.

htismaqe
09-20-2004, 01:48 PM
Meanwhile, freakin' John Henderson is starring for the team who last year was 2nd in the league against the run and just held Q. Griffin to 2.6 yards per carry. And they have no DE's either.

Starring? Not hardly. He's a solid DT that plays next to one of the 5 best DT's in the game in Marcus Stroud. Sims has played next to John Browning, Eric Downing, and Lionel Dalton.

htismaqe
09-20-2004, 01:50 PM
Look, maybe you didn't hear. Sims was double teamed, dude. He's the only LDT in the history of the game to be DT'd. He took one for the team, and sacrificed his stats. He's worth his weight in gold, seriously......... :rolleyes:

Who said anything even remotely resembling that?

Nothing like exaggerating to the point of ridiculousness...

tonyetony
09-20-2004, 02:08 PM
how DID you watch the game?

it wasn't easy to rewatch. i just fast forwarded to the D to isolate our LB play. My take on our LB Play was this.

1.They played well in the 1st half swarmed to the ball and TACKLED.
2. Most of Barbers tackles came in 1st half.
3. Kawika was absolutely lost on every snap he played.
4. even Fujita ran out of gas in the 4th qtr
5. Over pursuit is problem barber must fix now
6. Our starters should be the starters as bad as they might be our backups couldn't make anyones squad.

shaneo69
09-20-2004, 02:11 PM
Starring? Not hardly. He's a solid DT that plays next to one of the 5 best DT's in the game in Marcus Stroud. Sims has played next to John Browning, Eric Downing, and Lionel Dalton.


Well hopefully, we'll keep using our top picks on DT's and maybe we'll eventually find one that can take some double teams and allow Sims to thrive.

KC Jones
09-20-2004, 02:37 PM
Our D-line played quite well for nearly three quarters yesterday. How many times was DelHomme knocked on his ass? We put a ton of pressure on him - often while just rushing 3 guys. (BTW was is just me or were we in a 3-4 out there?) Give Delhomme the credit - he stood tall in the pocked and delivered the ball despite getting crushed repeatedly. Hell - that first TD he had was total luck while Fujita was spinning him around (it didn't help that Kawika was trailing 8 yards behind his coverage responsibility).

As I mentioned before they even played fairly well on that long drive in the 3rd, but Delhomme had a wide open receiver every time. He had no problem finding the guy and delivering the ball before the pass rush hit him. After that they were all sucking wind and Barber disappeared when it came to containing the outside run.

ENDelt260
09-20-2004, 02:45 PM
I don't understand why everyone is picking on Barber.

Because he told us too.

Hell, if it wasn't for Barber, the Americans could've won the f*cking Ryder Cup.

DAMMIT SHAWN!! :cuss:

tonyetony
09-20-2004, 03:01 PM
Posted by KC Jones - Today at 03:37 PM
Our D-line played quite well for nearly three quarters yesterday. How many times was DelHomme knocked on his ass? We put a ton of pressure on him - often while just rushing 3 guys. (BTW was is just me or were we in a 3-4 out there?) Give Delhomme the credit - he stood tall in the pocked and delivered the ball despite getting crushed repeatedly. Hell - that first TD he had was total luck while Fujita was spinning him around (it didn't help that Kawika was trailing 8 yards behind his coverage responsibility).

As I mentioned before they even played fairly well on that long drive in the 3rd, but Delhomme had a wide open receiver every time. He had no problem finding the guy and delivering the ball before the pass rush hit him. After that they were all sucking wind and Barber disappeared when it came to containing the outside run.


That was Beisel playin helicoptor with Jake.

the Delhomme audio from that play went something like this. "weeeeee weeeee weeeeeee Touchdown!!!"

htismaqe
09-20-2004, 03:04 PM
Well hopefully, we'll keep using our top picks on DT's and maybe we'll eventually find one that can take some double teams and allow Sims to thrive.

:hmmm:

I know what point you're trying to make, but I have to point out one weakness...

Everybody wants to talk up the Jags and John Henderson. Here you are taking a jab at the Chiefs drafting Downing, Siavii, Freeman, and Sims.

Those Jags that you love spent BACK-TO-BACK 1st round picks on defensive tackles -- the 9th overall pick and the 13th overall pick to be exact. They also spent 2 4ths and a 2nd-round pick on tackles in the last 5 years.

They've drafted MORE defensive tackles than we have.

shaneo69
09-20-2004, 03:40 PM
:hmmm:

I know what point you're trying to make, but I have to point out one weakness...

Everybody wants to talk up the Jags and John Henderson. Here you are taking a jab at the Chiefs drafting Downing, Siavii, Freeman, and Sims.

Those Jags spent BACK-TO-BACK 1st round picks on defensive tackles -- the 9th overall pick and the 13th overall pick to be exact. They also spent 2 4ths and a 2nd-round pick on tackles in the last 5 years.

They've drafted MORE defensive tackles than we have.

If we were 2nd in the league against the run, it wouldn't be an issue.

Yes, the Jags wasted a 2nd rounder on DT Larry Smith in '99; however, the guy in charge of their drafts back then was eventually fired. In KC, nobody in charge of personnel has gotten fired under Peterson. You're allowed to miss on a top pick in '01, a 2nd rounder in '02, and others, apparently with no consequences.

htismaqe
09-20-2004, 03:57 PM
If we were 2nd in the league against the run, it wouldn't be an issue.

Yes, the Jags wasted a 2nd rounder on DT Larry Smith in '99; however, the guy in charge of their drafts back then was eventually fired. In KC, nobody in charge of personnel has gotten fired under Peterson. You're allowed to miss on a top pick in '01, a 2nd rounder in '02, and others, apparently with no consequences.

So which point is it? That picking defensive tackle after defensive tackle in hopes of finding two good ones is dumb? Or is it that the Chiefs suck at finding good players?

It isn't Ryan Sims fault that Carl Peterson can't evaluate talent.

The Bad Guy
09-20-2004, 04:04 PM
So which point is it? That picking defensive tackle after defensive tackle in hopes of finding two good ones is dumb? Or is it that the Chiefs suck at finding good players?

It isn't Ryan Sims fault that Carl Peterson can't evaluate talent.

You're right. It's Ryan Sims fault that he can't become a force and earn the paycheck that he was given on draft day.

shaneo69
09-20-2004, 04:12 PM
So which point is it? That picking defensive tackle after defensive tackle in hopes of finding two good ones is dumb? Or is it that the Chiefs suck at finding good players?

Both. I don't know which is more frustrating----their insistence on picking DT's with high draft picks each year or the fact that they can't find two that are worth a damn.