Originally Posted by Rain Man (Post 12521913)

I think more and more people are starting to put this together, particularly with the glut of college graduates these days. I'm hearing it a lot more and totally agree with it.

I think there are several issues about college that aren't discussed as much yet as they should be. Everyone talks about the cost of college, and it's certainly increased, but at the same time a local public university is not unaffordable.

I think the bigger issues around college are that the pressures of going to college are overwhelming the rational decision about whether to do it. As you mention, some people simply don't want the careers that college points them to. But society pushes the college route so hard that people feel compelled to go even if they're not interested in it, or frankly in some cases not academically a good fit.

And the second issue is that so many people are going to college that I think we're getting a glut of graduates now. The most telling example is law school, which is a nightmare scenario right now, but it's also true of other degree programs as well. So that lowers the value of a college degree because you're competing with a lot of people who have similar degrees.

And of course third is the cheapening of college degrees through private sector schools and other things.

Somewhere along the line, it seems like our society decided that that a career isn't prestigious if it doesn't require a degree, and that everyone should hold a degree. Neither of those is true.

Originally Posted by eDave (Post 12522050)

I was sold the same line mid 80's and had the same real life slap in the face. It worked out just fine. They want it all now.

Originally Posted by SithCeNtZ (Post 12522083)

I've heard this, but I can't help but disagree with the trades being looked down upon as a big flaw in the system. You said that some people "don't want the careers that college points them to". And what careers are those? You can go to college and major in almost anything you want. In my opinion, people who say "yea, go in to the trades and make 80k a year" are the same as people who say "just go to college and get a STEM degree and you'll be fine". While both pieces are good advice in a vacuum(you can easily get jobs in both for good money)it ignores the fact that not everyone wants to be a welder or a computer scientist. While I'm sure there are some people who get turned off by the trades as a social stigma, the fact is that most people don't want to go home dirty and sweaty from working outside working with potentially dangerous tools. Most people want to go to work in a nice air conditioned office with minimal labor and risk of injury. I can list several other reasons why more people wouldn't want to go in to the trades depending on what trade it is that go beyond the prestige factor, just like there are dozens of reasons people don't become computer scientists to get the prestige factor.

Originally Posted by displacedinMN (Post 12522178)

Millennials think they deserve a 70K salary for a 30k job.
They think they deserve-not always work.
You should not get 15/hr for flipping hamburgers.
You will not start out with the corner office, with a large house, two cars and an expense account. Go into education and see what you will not be able to afford.

As a teacher, I believe a 4 year college education should not be the goal. Not everyone is meant for college. Some jobs need a degree. Teaching, medicine, administration, others.

But I am all for tech schools for many kids and we should be steering some that way in Middle School. I have kids that will not go to college but may make a good plumber. I pay my plumber good money. It is an honest, respectful job. Auto mechanic, HVAC, electrician.
Don't get me started on the lack of welders.

We are looking at college for kid 1. She is deciding between business and physical therapy. Either way, she can do well. College is 20-28k. We can cover most, she will have to work to cover the rest. But there is no way she can work enough to cover the cost of college. Not like the old days. GB is correct. She could start out with 20K of debt. That is before a car, house, wedding, furniture. It could be worse for some. Private school is 60K. Why the hell would we want that.

Millennials-don't expect it all now. I have taught for 24 years and know that it could be gone tomorrow.

Originally Posted by rockymtnchief (Post 12521600)

I agree that many aren't getting the same deal as their parents in professional jobs. However, many parents didn't go to college and did quite fine in trade areas. Which, IMO, is one of the problems.

Many, not all, kids are being taught that college is the only way to get ahead or you're stuck working at Wendys or Arbys.

Trades are still very strong in this country and pay above average incomes with good benefits. Kids just need to have someone steer them in that direction. I've taken three kids under my wing in the last ten years. One went to welding school and now makes over $100,000 per year, two went to linemen school. One makes $80,000 per year and can retire at 55, the other is a 3rd year apprentice making $30.00 an hour and can also retire at 55. The second will be at $37.00 an hour in two more years.

I also know a couple more who work in trades making $50,000+ a year as stone/tile workers, electricians. If I made that much at age 25, I'd be ecstatic.

I think too many people put a stigma on people that work with their hands, get dirty, work outside, wear coveralls to work, etc... and it turns kids off.

Anyway, we've hired two millenials in the last two years and both have been sharp, hard working and don't whine about the world. One is the son of a lineman and the other is the son of a carpenter. College was an option for both, but they like working outside.

Originally Posted by lewdog (Post 12522397)

That Doctorate in Physical Therapy will cost way more than 28k. :D

But you can go most anywhere after graduation and make decent money right away.

Originally Posted by displacedinMN (Post 12522417)

Dont think she is on the docterate track.if so,, i am not paying for it

Originally Posted by lewdog (Post 12522421)

What will she do with a Physical Therapy bachelor's? All you can do is be an assistant with that if you didn't know. Need a doctorate to be a licensed Physical Therapist.

Originally Posted by lewdog (Post 12522421)

What will she do with a Physical Therapy bachelor's? All you can do is be an assistant with that if you didn't know. Need a doctorate to be a licensed Physical Therapist.

Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth (Post 12522457)

I thought you could get your masters ? I think KU Med has a 2 year program, for example ???

Originally Posted by lewdog (Post 12522468)

Physical therapy has moved from a master's to practice to a doctorate. It's only an extra year (3 years instead of 2). Occupational and speech therapy only require a master's still.

Just making sure Displaced understands as he made no mention of master's or doctorate work in that field.