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-   -   12 Trapped Miners in West Virginia discussion (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=132881)

Iowanian 01-04-2006 04:14 PM

Any of you guzzlers stop to think for a minute, that during those 3 hours, the Mine officials and rescue workers didn't KNOW what they had yet?

They were a mile deep into a tunnel, fighting cave in and poison gases. Its quite possible that they had good reason to believe they'd found the location of the miners, but NOT necessarily know their condition?

In the mean time, while those men are still digging and searching....the circus starts in the Baptist Bigtop.

Donger 01-04-2006 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jAZ
Yeah, quite a bit.

That's because you're a callous prick.

memyselfI 01-04-2006 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jAZ
I understand your point and don't disagree with it in a broad sense, but the media could have and in this case should have reported "rumors are swirilling that 12 people are alive".

The live TV media could have and should have reported it as such. But they also face a smaller burder of accuracy in a sense as they are able to report what they are learning as they learn it. But they are responsible for reporting what they learned accurately. They need to qualify their reports appropriately.

The print media has an even higher burden, IMO because their printing schedule doesn't allow for getting it right once it goes to print. In that case, it is even more important to report the story accurately. And an accurate report would be (again) "unconfirmed reports suggest 12 found alive" or some such.

That doesn't make for a good news-paper selling headline though, so they punch it up a little in exchange for actual accuracy.

I am only holding the media accountable to the same standard that they are alway accountable for, IMO. Nothing additional.

I'm certainly not holding them responsible for the source information being false.

To give you a familiar parallel that might make some sense for you... IMO it's like the Dan Rather, Bush, Draft story.

I hold CBS and Dan Rather accountable for a failure in editorial judgement. They rushed a story and should have held themselve to a higher journalistic standard. Similarly I am not saying that Rather is responsible for any mis-information. His failure was in editorial control.

JMO.

IIRC from my old journalism classes, the minimal standard of confirmation of a story was two independent sources giving the same information. In this instance, you have the Gov.'s office and their contacts with the mine and the family members who received phone calls from the mine officials. Each would count as a different source. By journalistic standards, especially those evolving due to the nature of live TV, they seemed to meet the criteria for reporting a confirmed story.

Ideally, they would have had immediate confirmation or denial from the mine officials regarding the story. Instead, they were allowed to believe, along with the families, that medical attendants were headed into the mine to retrieve the survivors and reunite them with their families. They were allowed to believe this for three hours...at least in front of the camera. Behind the scenes there was probably corrections going on OTR but they were not going to report THIS news until they were indeed sure of it given the misinformation already coming from the mine officials.

The print press I think could shoulder a different standard here as you rightly point out. They have the luxury of waiting for details that live TV news media do not. As such, and in retrospect, they chose the 'feel good' story immediately upon hearing it vs. actually waiting for the miners, dead or alive, to surface. I suppose you could fault them for their haste in getting a story to print before deadline. But you can't fault them for believing false sources when everyone but the rescuers and mine officials knew the truth for three hours after the story of the miners surviving initially broke.

I don't think Rathergate is a similiar parallel at all. Dan Rather and his staff had infinite moments to investigate, reinvestigate, confirm, reconfirm, and source and resource. They, apparently, chose to use minimal sourcing and did not follow basic accepted standards of journalism in their reporting. Example, not finding two different handwriting experts to confirm their findings. The problem with the Rathergate is the incompetence in the reporting detracts from the possible true facts within the actual story. No coincidence, I'm sure.

jAZ 01-04-2006 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Dan
God, I agree with jAZ....:banghead:
I feel dirty, like I just rooted for the Bronco's.......

This is not as uncommon as people in the DC like the think. I've been saying this in every media discussion for 4 years now.

jAZ 01-04-2006 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memyselfI
IIRC from my old journalism classes, the minimal standard of confirmation of a story was two independent sources giving the same information.

I believe you are correct, and in any respect I accept that as a reasonable standard for this discussion.
Quote:

Originally Posted by memyselfI
In this instance, you have the Gov.'s office and their contacts with the mine and the family members who received phone calls from the mine officials. Each would count as a different source. By journalistic standards, especially those evolving due to the nature of live TV, they seemed to meet the criteria for reporting a confirmed story.

How would anyone consider those 3 different sources "independent" by any measure? There was a single source for any information about the status of the miners. That's the rescue team. They were also reporting to a single source. That's the command center. The family got their info from the command center - that's DEpendant. The governor got his information from the families - that also is DEpendant.

jAZ 01-04-2006 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memyselfI
Ideally, they would have had immediate confirmation or denial from the mine officials regarding the story. Instead, they were allowed to believe, along with the families, that medical attendants were headed into the mine to retrieve the survivors and reunite them with their families. They were allowed to believe this for three hours...at least in front of the camera. Behind the scenes there was probably corrections going on OTR but they were not going to report THIS news until they were indeed sure of it given the misinformation already coming from the mine officials.

I'd say that this was an acceptable decision, even though it caused frustration in retrospect. Once you find out the first reports you received were incorrect, and once you realize that the incorrect information likely leaked out... (about 20 minutes after the first false report), I too would continue the effort to stop ANY dissemination of information until its confirmed. No option at this point is ideal, and the choices (update with partially confirmed bad news or don't provide any official update until fully confirmed). And either choice is defensible, IMO.

jAZ 01-04-2006 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memyselfI
I don't think Rathergate is a similiar parallel at all. Dan Rather and his staff had infinite moments to investigate, reinvestigate, confirm, reconfirm, and source and resource. They, apparently, chose to use minimal sourcing and did not follow basic accepted standards of journalism in their reporting. Example, not finding two different handwriting experts to confirm their findings.

This is exactly why they are the same. The media rushed by using minimal sourcing and WITHOUT following basic accepted standards of journalism by ignoring the "indepedant" qualifier in those standards. Rather ignored only slightly different standards, but the two are similar enough for a legit comparison.
Quote:

Originally Posted by memyselfI
The problem with the Rathergate is the incompetence in the reporting detracts from the possible true facts within the actual story. No coincidence, I'm sure.

While that's a different discussion, I agree.

memyselfI 01-04-2006 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jAZ
I believe you are correct, and in any respect I accept that as a reasonable standard for this discussion.

How would anyone consider those 3 different sources "independent" by any measure? There was a single source for any information about the status of the miners. That's the rescue team. They were also reporting to a single source. That's the command center. The family got their info from the command center - that's DEpendant. The governor got his information from the families - that also is DEpendant.

Actually, I'm counting them as two different sources. One would be the Gov. office with his people in contact with the command center. The other would be people inside the command center making cell phone calls to family members.

From the media reports I've read there was someone on the phone calling people from the command center, the GOV. there confirming the information, and then shortly thereafter was a different gentleman coming in saying the rescuers were now pulling out people and they would be reunited shortly before going to the hospital for evaluation.

Clearly, the families had reason to believe, based on the different number of angles this information was coming from, that the information was true. Then again, as I pointed out before, if they were not so deeply invested in hopes for a miracle they might have remained skeptical given the mine's previous disregard for their safety...but that is a sidebar.

If the media had someone stationed inside the command center or inside the rescue operation and reported this untrue information as fact then you could rightly fault them for reporting something irresponsibly. But that does not appear to be the case. And the fact that the media were left with this story being circulated worldwide for THREE HOURS leaves one to believe that they were either being extremely cautious in not reporting the deaths until they were able to confirm three hours later. Or, that they were also duped for three hours. Either way, I'm not finding much blame for the live media and this story. The print media, I think you have a legitimate beef.

But the 24/7 cable outlets simply reported the best they could with the information they were being given. I don't believe any one of those journalists would have knowingly reported false information to get the hopes of the families and the nations hopes up just to break a story. Sorry, I don't believe the media are the vilians some on the fringe of the political spectrum try to paint them to be.

stevieray 01-04-2006 05:56 PM

Batman and Catwoman are here to save the day!

ROFL

This is just another example of the effect women have had on the media and our society.

Th news has become more like watching Ricki Lake instead of Walter Cronkite.

jAZ 01-04-2006 06:44 PM

1 Attachment(s)
D.enise, this is a good example of how I think the media (print in particular) *should* have handled the initial unconfirmed reports. It's a sad day when I have to use a fantasy football website to demonstrate what quality reporting looks like.

gblowfish 01-04-2006 07:26 PM

Here's an editorial in today's Wheeling, WV newspaper:
http://www.news-register.net/edit/st...2006_edt01.asp

old_geezer 01-04-2006 07:44 PM

I haven't bothered to read this whole thread so my question may have already been asked and/or answered but I'm curious;

12 Trapped Miners in West Virginia discussion

What were they talking about?


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