This is one of the things not talked about as much.

Ok, so Moore will take some seasoning and time to learn here. Fine, I don't think that's wrong or whatever, he came from a small school etc.

But you've got 4 cheap years. You essentially torch one for a redshirt year for a guy that's a bit physically limited compared to some other guys. So say he takes his year and then hits his theoretical ceiling. Is that a player you look at extending?

With the high floor lower ceiling, I think you could argue probably not. So then you've burned a top 60 pick on a guy you are getting 3 years out of. That doesn't scream great value.

Alot of this is projecting for sure.

Toney slotting right in and contributing in the space of two weeks makes the defense of Moore a lot more difficult. And you wonder if the Toney deal would have ever happened if Moore had shown flashes. A second and a third are a lot to spend on the lower half of our WR depth chart in just six months, and the guy they bring around also is a return guy?

Yep.

Kid got the overwhelming majority of his production on 2 routes against MAC competition and suddenly he was 'dominant' because he was catching quick-hitters and running through future salesmen.

As we've said 100 times now, it's not that he'll never be able to play in this league - he might be a productive player someday. It's that he simply wasn't a 2nd round prospect under any reasonable metric.

He's a fairly fungible mid/late 2nd day talent. That's all he ever was. Yet "how did he fall to us at 54?!?" was some odd consensus development 'round here...

That's my biggest gripe. We drafted Moore for his "solid production". He was supposed to be high floor. If he truly was high floor, he'd be getting on the field more.

Look at Khalen Saunders. Drafted in the mid-80s and by the time he's a FA we'll get one good season out of him.

Ultimately that's an okay return on the pick. Especially if his time here makes it easier for us to retain him. And Moore could absolutely end on a similar track - but the cost is still substantially higher at 54 than 84. Especially when there was badly needed DL help available to us and that help is contributing in big ways right now.

You’re right, dominated is too strong a word. I meant that he piled up stats against inferior competition in ways that won’t translate to the NFL.

Probably true but may also apply to MVS. He hasn't exactly been lighting it up either and probably why they may still want OBJ.

I mentioned it at the time of the Toney trade. Someone asked what this says about Moore and the usual suspects of course said "NOTHING!"

My response was "nothing good..."

Because I agree with you - had Moore shown out, it's less likely we're involved in that Toney conversation because it's just not on the radar. But with Moore gacking punts and being a non-factor on offense, Veach went turning over stones and found Toney.

So I guess it's a good thing in that regard.

I just think the idea that idea that our 2nd round picks struggles had zero bearing on the decision to give up a 3rd round pick for another WR when our top 3 guys are pretty much locked in place is...bizarre. Of course it mattered. It wasn't dispositive, but it was a consideration.

No it isn’t. He had zero experience as a returner. Drafting a player with zero experience at a position and then throwing them in there in the pro game is incredibly stupid.

I think there's some merit in saying, in regards to high floor/low ceiling terms, it's better to take those high floor swings at positions like LB and C and such.

Take the swings at positions like DE and QB and WR on the high ceiling guys maybe?

I dunno, it's an interesting discussion.

You just nailed it. Skyy has looked like he does not belong out there on several occasions. I'm not just talking about returning kicks, but that certainly has not helped his confidence.

Yeah.

I feel like the 'haters' ARE operating in the middle ground right now.

"We shouldn't have expected him to contribute" was the growing consensus and when Toney blows that thing to hell, there's just some other excuse.

Meanwhile myself and Detox, who have been the most vocal detractors of the pick, continue to say "hey, there's a path to productivity here even if it's going to be a longer time coming than we would like and it won't have the ceiling many hoped for". That IS the middle ground.

It's a wide enough runway to land a 747 on, frankly. It's so damn nebulous as to mean very little - I don't even like where I find myself here because I feel like I'm mostly stating truisms that are largely devoid of genuine insight.

And yet I 'hate' the guy according to many....

Huh?

It's a punt, bro.

Guarantee you the guy has fielded hundreds of punts in practices, not to mention the fact that anybody with that kind of athletic profile is the all-everything guy in high school.

You can't muff punts. That's on the player. Catch the goddamn ball.

Well, I wasn't talking about you really so there's that. :D