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The Franchise 11-13-2013 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10183686)
but crimes like Columbine are happening more and more with younger and younger kids. It's at a whole different level now. 20-30 years ago you didn't hear about kids taking guns to schools and shooting everyone up.
But do you honestly think that punishing the parents is going to make them better at it?

King_Chief_Fan 11-13-2013 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10183642)
ok, think about it this way: if there is even a possibility of prosecuting the parents and holding them liable for their kid's actions, I think that will force many parents (who have kids who are out of control) to become better parents, that is, to not just kick the can down the street. They have to get involved or there is the possibility that if little Johnny kills someone drunk driving that they may in fact, be held responsible.

That's all I'm saying. Make it an option for the prosecution to go after said parents. I'm not saying it will work every time. But what I am saying is that in a case-by-case basis, if the prosecution has this option, it may indeed force parents to be way more active and responsible for their kid's lives.
I wished that would happen and work. Half of these kids probably only have one parent who has to work a couple of jobs to make ends meet.

If that happened to me or a family member, i return to the scene of the crime and let the Louisville Slugger hit a few home runs.

Tombstone RJ 11-13-2013 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestilence (Post 10183691)
But do you honestly think that punishing the parents is going to make them better at it?
I was living in Denver when Columbine happened. It was horrific. Parents of the victoms who were killed wanted to blame someone other than Harris and Klebold. They tried to blame the cops (Harris and Klebold had records), they tried to blame the school, they tried to blame the everyone except the people most responsible, the parents.

Harris's room was loaded with bomb making material, hate speech, guns and ammo. He was a ticking time bomb. His parent's ignored it. His parents were not involved in his life.

Now, you tell me, if Harris's parents could have been prosecuted and liable for Eric Harris's insane behavior do you think that maybe, just maybe, Harris's dad might have done an intervention or something?

frankotank 11-13-2013 11:43 AM
honestly I can't even believe throwing parents in jail is even being debated.
lots of kids have good parents and a good home life and choose to do things that are wrong. my son is a high schooler. if he dumbasses and goes out and plays knockout....that's not MY fault. it's HIS. I ain't going to jail because my son made a stupid wreckless thoughtless bitch ass decision. he can pay for that himself.
AFTER I knock his ass out!

yeah I understand some of these kids doing this crap have shitty parents and a shitty life. but not all of them. as someone already said......slippery slope.....

Fish 11-13-2013 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10183642)
ok, think about it this way: if there is even a possibility of prosecuting the parents and holding them liable for their kid's actions, I think that will force many parents (who have kids who are out of control) to become better parents, that is, to not just kick the can down the street. They have to get involved or there is the possibility that if little Johnny kills someone drunk driving that they may in fact, be held responsible.

That's all I'm saying. Make it an option for the prosecution to go after said parents. I'm not saying it will work every time. But what I am saying is that in a case-by-case basis, if the prosecution has this option, it may indeed force parents to be way more active and responsible for their kid's lives.
Again, I'm not against trying something different. And I'm not even against some less popular draconian solutions. But I just really don't see any punishment making the people in these situations better parents. You can't force someone to be a better parent if they're resistant to it or just flat don't care. Most of these people have nothing, and they know they have nothing. It's hard to convince someone to change, when the motivation you're using is punishment by taking things away from them. About the only thing they have left to take is their freedom. And besides the ethics of that situation, we're still left to financially support them and their offspring, likely to a greater degree than we already are.

|Zach| 11-13-2013 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10183686)
but crimes like Columbine are happening more and more with younger and younger kids. It's at a whole different level now. 20-30 years ago you didn't hear about kids taking guns to schools and shooting everyone up.
Do you have anything to back that statement up?

I think the age of 24 hour news and social media and constant need for narratives is clouding your judgement. Violence is down overwhelmingly.

Fish 11-13-2013 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10183723)
I was living in Denver when Columbine happened. It was horrific. Parents of the victoms who were killed wanted to blame someone other than Harris and Klebold. They tried to blame the cops (Harris and Klebold had records), they tried to blame the school, they tried to blame the everyone except the people most responsible, the parents.

Harris's room was loaded with bomb making material, hate speech, guns and ammo. He was a ticking time bomb. His parent's ignored it. His parents were not involved in his life.

Now, you tell me, if Harris's parents could have been prosecuted and liable for Eric Harris's insane behavior do you think that maybe, just maybe, Harris's dad might have done an intervention or something?
No, I don't believe for a second that the fear of liability would have changed the way Harris's parents raised him.

"I better spend some quality time with little Billy. Otherwise he may grow up to be insane and kill a bunch of people. Then I'd have to pay damages and go to jail."

That's not a logical thought.

|Zach| 11-13-2013 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10183723)
Harris's dad might have done an intervention or something?
What would we have intervened?

I have no doubt if he knew this rule was around he wouldnt have thought it applied to him.

He obviously wasn't listening to his kid.

stevieray 11-13-2013 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10183686)
but crimes like Columbine are happening more and more with younger and younger kids. It's at a whole different level now. 20-30 years ago you didn't hear about kids taking guns to schools and shooting everyone up.
..30 shootings since Columbine..

Tombstone RJ 11-13-2013 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish (Post 10183759)
No, I don't believe for a second that the fear of liability would have changed the way Harris's parents raised him.

"I better spend some quality time with little Billy. Otherwise he may grow up to be insane and kill a bunch of people. Then I'd have to pay damages and go to jail."

That's not a logical thought.
If Harris's father thought he might end up in prison because his son was a total psycho? I think he would have done something more. Hell, even if he got into Eric's face and Eric killed him, then Eric would have never been able to do the Columbine thing.

Totally logical.

|Zach| 11-13-2013 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10183793)
If Harris's father thought he might end up in prison because his son was a total psycho? I think he would have done something more. Hell, even if he got into Eric's face and Eric killed him, then Eric would have never been able to do the Columbine thing.

Totally logical.
Did he think his kid was a total psycho?

|Zach| 11-13-2013 11:58 AM
What exactly should parents be on the look out for in regards to their kids being potential school shooters.

The Franchise 11-13-2013 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10183793)
If Harris's father thought he might end up in prison because his son was a total psycho? I think he would have done something more. Hell, even if he got into Eric's face and Eric killed him, then Eric would have never been able to do the Columbine thing.

Totally logical.
So your logical thought is that if Eric killed his Dad....then Columbine wouldn't have happened.

Yep....totally logical. :spock:

Tombstone RJ 11-13-2013 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by |Zach| (Post 10183761)
What would we have intervened?

I have no doubt if he knew this rule was around he wouldnt have thought it applied to him.

He obviously wasn't listening to his kid.
He could have told Eric something like this: "Hey Eric, I notice you are trying to build a bomb, can you tell me why you are doing that? Also, why do you have all this hate speech laying around? Who do you hate so much and why? Oh, and what are all these semi-auto guns doing here, and all this ammunition? Hey, if you want to go hunting, or go to the range (because I'm a former military guy myself) why don't we go this weekend? Eric, I love you and I want what is best for you, can we spend some more time together?"

something like that?

Tombstone RJ 11-13-2013 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestilence (Post 10183803)
So your logical thought is that if Eric killed his Dad....then Columbine wouldn't have happened.

Yep....totally logical. :spock:
well you tell me what is better buddy.


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