Only thing I can figure is that you could watch tape, see that he selected '2' for instance and then moved expecting, i dunno, a curveball and then the pitch ended up a sinker. And so he looked crossed up because he didn't realize he'd called for the pitcher to throw a sinker instead of a curve.

It could also explain some of the baffling pitch selection issues/questions we were seeing when none of us could figure out why he was calling some of the pitches he was.

Maybe he WASN'T calling those - he just didn't realize what it was he WAS calling. Don't get me wrong - that's not any better at all - but it's an answer I suppose.

Mr Dewitt, we really need this software for scouting but I think we can get away with only buying one license and everyone sharing it. It's going to be great.

The idea of DeWitt having a pirated version of Windows XP w/ a sticky note on the CD with the 'office password' on it rings just a little too close to the truth...

Password is “Fredbird”.
sec

No matter how bad it is or gets, Mo ain’t going anywhere
Dewitt


“We thought at this point we would obviously be much better than we’ve been. We haven’t played well in the first half to get up where we thought we would be. It’s surprising. Not only did we feel like we had a very competitive club, and I think third parties thought so, too. We were right up there at the top of our division. And it hasn’t worked out that way.

I’d like to see the team have a very strong second half and play up to its capabilities. There is a lot of talent on the Cardinals.

I think the trade deadline always activates teams to look to finish strong or build to the future. However you chose to look at it, it is an opportunity. What ways do we think we can improve our club?

I do think we have the right leadership in place. We’ve had a good run of success over the years with the current leadership group, and we’re going to work hard to continue that.”

- St. Louis Cardinals Chairman Bill DeWitt Jr.

catchers that can excel behind the dish and add some some punch at the plate a rare breed...pick one

The Cardinals are featured on today's Immaculate Grid!

https://www.immaculategrid.com/?utm_...07_btn_home_ig

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> have traded Genésis Cabrera to the Blue Jays in exchange for minor-league catching prospect Sammy Hernandez. Cabrera was DFA’d by St. Louis on Monday.</p>&mdash; Katie Woo (@katiejwoo) <a href="https://twitter.com/katiejwoo/status/1682419703266832384?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 21, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Helped me get a 0.07%, 0 2%, and 2% down the middle

Billy, this is Tommy Pham. With his blend of power and speed and his redassed behavior in the clubhouse, he was one of the most undervalued players in all of baseball. His defect is that he has a degenerative eye condition, and a tendency to slap a bitch. I believe that if you are a stupid mother****er, you could trade him for two negative WAR relievers, and an idiot OF that accumulates nearly as many broken bones in his hand from punching televisions as he does major league homers.

I'd be pissed if i actually paid money for MLB.tv, sice they randomly like to black out games and move them to AppleTV for arbitrary reasons.

I just saw Motter was back up and all is saved.

The Yankees traded with us successfully before. Surely they have top shelf players that are ready next year. They need pitching. How about…..
Montgomery
Hicks
Flaherty

What can we get for them?

I’m prepared for some half measures that are much too focused on the shorter term with some “we were almost there…if you only knew” reports sprinkled in. Hoping it’s something different but not expecting Mo to deviate from his norm.

Didn't we get Montgomery from them for Bader?

Yes, has worked out for both teams plus the Yankees figure they can fleece Mo easily, probably not wrong about that.

From Katie Woo and Jeff Passan so should be solid info

With the trade deadline quickly approaching, we got some new info today

The #STLCards* plan to hold onto Tyler O’Neill at the deadline, per Katie Woo

On the other hand, St. Louis is telling teams they plan to move Jordan Montgomery, Jack Flaherty, Paul DeJong, and perhaps Jordan Hicks, according to Jeff Passan

No one wants O Neill anyway

I agree, probably can’t even get a lottery pick for him. But what good is he? Isn’t this his last year? They plan on resigning him?

Trade DeJong for a bag of sunflower seeds and get this guy up here

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Masyn Winn’s last 13 games:<br><br>.439 AVG<br>.508 OBP<br>.947 SLG<br>1.455 OPS<br>248 wRC+<br>15 XBH <br><br>Last 30 G: 162 wRC+<br>Last 50 G: 122 wRC+<br><br> <a href="https://t.co/0Y9XgT1HSA">pic.twitter.com/0Y9XgT1HSA</a></p>&mdash; Jacob (@CardinalsReek) <a href="https://twitter.com/CardinalsReek/status/1684246437930860544?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 26, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Another year of arb eligibility.

For everything he isn't offensively, he's an ELITE defensive LFer. I mean very probably the best in baseball out there. And it's noticeable.

I don't know how anyone can watch Walker stumble-**** his way through RF and seemingly cost us a game every week by not making routine catches and then say O'Neill has NO value. He does - when he's available.

I don't mind holding him. His value is low but it doesn't have to be. If he can stay on the field and play good ball for the next 2 months, he can get a decent return in the off-season.

My position on guys in the minors is that they have to force the issue. It was with Carlson and Gorman, was with Walker (who I didn't think DID) and is with Winn.

Winn's forced the issue and has earned a chance, IMO. The defense is easily big league caliber and if he can continue to get his hands around on inside pitches to keep pitchers from just busting him up inside, he can be a solid hitter as well. Just that little extra pull power is really important for a guy like him because it will help keep pitchers middle/away and allow him to slap/run or spray liners to maximize his speed. Otherwise they'll just saw him off.

I'm not 100% sure he's ready - but I believe he's earned the look.

Paul DeJong sure as shit hasn't done anything to own the job.

I don't believe he is ready, but he is more ready than Walker was.

I don't love his timing mechanism; nastier stuff will eat that up. Wish he was quite a bit quieter there because I feel like that will be prone to slumps.

And his swing is still a little loopy, but not bad. His hands are awfully quick so that'll help.

Bottom line is that I don't expect him to set the world on fire offensively, but I think he'll be playable while being an enormous asset defensively.

Either way it's a pretty significant upgrade over DeJong.

:thumb:

Walker's bat was ready (despite the Cardinals bitching about him and attempting to ruin his confidence). His defense for OF wasn't.

If they aren't willing to burn it down, why not see if you can get the Mets to part with Scherzer for next year? He's not what he was, but he's a legitimate playoff starter.

Damn some drama in the first inning. Mikolas gets tossed for hitting Happ for defending Conteras getting knocked out of the game by a bat.

BS call there

Players settled it and then the umps stepped in

I've said it forever, but you should be allowed to fight one ump per team per year.

Man, I don't like retaliation, but Mikolas should've gotten a warning before that.

That's BS.

Chip Carey throwing shade on the way out of the inning - Cubs & Umpires 3, Cardinals 0

I wouldn’t even call it retaliation

Happ took it as owed and it was over

Mikolas intentionally plunked him as a result of Happ's backswing, hence retaliation.

Semantics but he was reconciling

Nm just heard Drink speak for the first time ever

Umps clearly got it right LMAO

How can they throw someone out without a warning?

yeah, he knew what was coming. It was near the butt area. Not meant to hurt unlike losing our catcher.

No one complained about being hit. Not a single cub. There was no reason to eject him. The umpires interjected their self’s into the game for no reason.

Sure he did but you can’t prove it. Pitchers hit batters all the time. 99% is unintentional. But, how are we supposed to know?

Seems like Arenado and Flaherty could go back home. How’s that talent lA is willing to give up?

Nolan Arenado's days with the St. Louis Cardinals could be numbered ahead of the Aug. 1 trade deadline.

The Los Angeles Dodgers and Cardinals have engaged in trade talks centered around the superstar third baseman, sources told Jorge Castillo of the Los Angeles Times.

St. Louis may also send right-hander Jack Flaherty or left-hander Jordan Montgomery to Los Angeles in the deal, according to Castillo.

The Cardinals are interested in young pitchers such as Bobby Miller, Gavin Stone, Ryan Pepiot, and Emmet Sheehan, sources told Castillo.

The potential blockbuster trade would reportedly likely include infielder Max Muncy or utilityman Chris Taylor, if not both, heading to St. Louis.

Arenado would only be willing to waive his no-trade clause to head home to California to play for the Dodgers, sources told Castillo.

Because intentionally throwing at a batter is an automatic ejection. Mikolas is a moron and if he wanted to actually pitch yesterday he should have done it in the 6th inning or let a reliever handle it.

`ySince when? How many batters get plunked and they just go to their base. No ejections.

How many of those batters that got hit was it deemed that the pitcher intentionally threw at them?

Its been this way for a handful of years now. If the umpire believes with out a doubt the pitcher intentionally threw at the batter then he's gone, multiple pitchers have been thrown out for this and they didnt even hit the batter. He also has the power to eject the manager as well. If there is doubt then warnings are issued.

There is no doubt Mikolas intentionally threw at Happ. He threw at him twice until he finally hit him. The fact that he missed his first attempt was why "Happ knew what was coming."

If you admit "Happ knew it was coming." Then how are you possibly going to argue "how do we know it was intentional?" Everyone ****ing knew it was intentional because he did it on the first 2 pitches after Happ accidentally hit Contreras in his backswing. Mikolas is a ****ing moron.

I'm going to agree with the Cub fan here - Mikolas didn't give him a choice.

A) There was NO reason to hit Happ. We retaliate for baseball accidents now? Happ was clearly apologetic and he and Contreras had even hugged it out. There was no intent so no 'message' to send. "Hey, don't go doing that thing you did on accident again!"

B) I think Mikolas stays in the game if he doesn't throw at him twice. You get one free pitch. Mikolas took his and missed. Then he did it again. That really doesn't give the umpires a choice. They can't pretend to not recognize the intent behind it at that point.

It was petty, stupid bullshit from a team being led by a petty, stupid manager. There was no reason at all for Mikolas to throw at Happ and that was a needless escalation that only got worse when he friggen missed him.

This is entirely on Mikolas, IMO.

Eh, that's not happening.

None of those Dodgers pitchers have performed at the big league level and they're all starting to get YankeeProspectStink to them. Every Yankee prospect for decades was some hot shit badass who did...nothing. Dodgers prospects are getting the same treatment. Pepiot is hurt, Stone's stuff doesn't look to be translating to big league hitters (similar to Pfaadt with Arizona), Sheehan is damn sure not a headliner in an Arenado deal. Miller is the only one who's looked like he MIGHT have some real staying power; he's been solid. But if you'd move Arenado, Philly would give up Abel for him in a heartbeat and that's a better prospect than Miller. And I don't believe for a second that Arenado's gonna ONLY accept a trade to LAD.

Give all FOUR of those guys and maybe 2 of them end up mid-rotation starters; Miller with an outside shot at being a 2. Nah, the Cardinals aren't going to take the PR massacre that would come of that sort of thing.

And they're damn sure not taking Muncy back (who's essentially a grown up Gorman) or Taylor (An older Edman).

That's just straight bullshit.

Taylor Motter at short? I guess nothing really matters at this point.

I don’t doubt mo’s ability to throw shit at the wall for pitchers, now in hope to save face after blowing his load this year. And after lying to Arenado, now he’s giving our best player away on a ****in gamble.
**** him
sec

so standard incompetence is to be expected from this front office.

Not incompetence AND bad PR.

Because PR is still the one game this organization plays to win. If they were to trade Arenado, the PR pushback would be catastrophic and so they'd never do it without being able to sell it.

So they'd have to ROAST LAD in that deal and the Dodgers just aren't in the business of getting strafed in win-now deals for veteran players.

If you're looking for that sort of thing, call the Mets. I just don't know that they have anything left in their system worth chasing for a player of Nolan's caliber.

The other thing that makes me nervous about a deal with LAD is they also seem to be in the business of eating some shitty contracts to take on the star vs paying full value in prospects.

Mo HAS to be able to say with a straight face that he did everything he could to field a winner. If they trade Arenado for anything other than bonafide starters he can't really do that. If he does nothing at all he can always say they couldn't get a deal they liked.

Without getting a quality pitcher with years left before FA or on their current contract, no way you trade Arenado.

Now Helmsley wants out. Apparently pissed off about the arbitration hearing. I don’t know why they don’t come up with a better system.

These hearings are all about telling the player he sucks, shouldn’t get that big of a raise. How can it not create bad blood?

Denton's been making shit up. Helsley responded to that report on Twitter with something like "Really? I was unaware I felt that way..."

There's no reason to put much stock in that.

If they weren't loaded with catching prospects AND have Will Smith, I'd see them as a nice place to unload Willson. But C is pretty much the last thing they need. They have an outstanding big league catcher and 2 of the top 5 C prospects in the game.

Miller AND Sheehan would probably qualify as 'quality pitcher with years...' because between the two of them you gotta figure one of them sticks.

But I'd want Miller, Sheehan and Michael Busch to even continue the conversation for Arenado and I don't think the Dodgers bite. And that's while simultaneously believing that all 3 of those guys are overrated by the Prospect Hounds.

Don't look at the prospect lists - look at what LA is doing. They've had ample opportunity to get Busch on the field and he's a 'top 30 prospect' according to the lists. He's hit at every level in the minors and is 24, so neither young nor old - he's ready if he'll ever be. And he's extremely highly touted in prospect circles so in a vacuum, what's not to like?

And yet, he's not getting ABs. What's that tell you the organization thinks about him? An organization that's smarter than we are and damn sure knows more about him than the prospect hounds.

Same story with Stone - he carved up the minors last year, got bombed in the bigs and buried. The Dodgers have had a lot of cause to let him work his way through it but they didn't. Which suggests to me that they're not confident he's a guy that will.

But they've had a lighter touch with Miller. So LA thinks he's their keeper. And they've been a little more patient with Sheehan, so he's their 2nd favorite.

With smart organizations, don't pay attention to what they (or anyone else) says about their guys. Watch what they DO with them.

Mikolas got a 5 game suspension

He earned it.

:thumb:

Today should be an auto L with Waino on the mound, correct?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Possible replacement for John Mozeliak. What about him? He&#39;s short yet feisty and loud, likes to be fed 24/7, and wears a bowtie even better than Mo. He&#39;s cheap, unless you buy the expensive brand of kibble. His name is... Roscoe Jasper Jenkins Buffa. He sleeps on the job... <a href="https://t.co/5Fe5cZhnZ4">pic.twitter.com/5Fe5cZhnZ4</a></p>&mdash; Dan Buffa (@buffa82) <a href="https://twitter.com/buffa82/status/1683955608477745153?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 25, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Hicks to the Blue Jays. Who's going to blow saves for us now? I guess we still have VerHagen and Gallegos to fill that need.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Full trade, per ESPN sources:<br><br>Rangers receive: LHP Jordan Montgomery and RHR Chris Stratton<br><br>Cardinals receive: IF Thomas Saggese, RHP Tekoah Roby and LHP John King<br><br>The deal is done. The Rangers get another starter and another reliever. They are all in.</p>&mdash; Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) <a href="https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1685743183865491456?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 30, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Source: Right-hander Adam Kloffenstein is going to the St. Louis Cardinals from the Toronto Blue Jays in the Jordan Hicks trade. Unclear if there’s others involved.</p>&mdash; Robert Murray (@ByRobertMurray) <a href="https://twitter.com/ByRobertMurray/status/1685741404616814592?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 30, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

If that's the headliner, the Cardinals got away with highway robbery!

Montgomery to Texas

Kloffenstein isn’t really a prospect. Robberse is the guy who will make or break that trade.

The Jays need the whiffs that Hicks will provide and have for a few years now. He’ll probably pitch in a setup role once Romano returns.

It’s not even make or break per se.

Hicks is a free agent after the season. If they weren’t goi f to extend him below market, getting anything for him is a positive.

Gut it and then the front office

And extend Nootbar.

Hicks has no value to the Cardinals for the remainder of this year, true, but he has value to contenders who need the relief help.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that Robberse’s development will determine whether the Cardinals “win” the trade from a value perspective.

Get rid of Flaherty and Mo next please

What’s the most woke city that’s still in contention? That’s where JLM wants to go.

Correct.

I’m also not entirely sold that all the guys they acquired from Toronto and Texas will still be members of the organization when the off-season begins. I think they’ll likely try to trade a few of them to acquire a starter via trade, but that’s just a hunch.

Giants only 3 games out

I'm not sure i agree.

I mean Kloffenstein was a top 10 prospect for the Jays a year ago and a guy they broke the slot record for signing bonuses to get signed. They really liked him. And yes, he struggled in 2022 but has had a nice year in 2023.

He's a PLANET; built like an absolute tank. Works in the 94 mph range and can hit 97. Has 4 pitches including a slider that profiles as a big league pitch and a change that MIGHT become a plus pitch. He's only 22. I see no reason at all to write him off as a prospect even if the prospect hounds have. You set his profile and his performance this year side by side with McGreevy and there's no reason to pick McGreevy over him as likely to be a SP in the big leagues over the next 2 seasons.

And the prospect guys like Robberse but he just looks like a relief pitcher to me. He's an undersized 'pitchability' righty with no putaway pitch to speak of.

Of the two, I'd bank on Kloffenstein having a more impactful career, though I don't expect either of them to ever be more than maybe a #4 starter.

Regarding the Montgomery deal - I'm not a huge fan of Roby; again I'm gonna break with the prospect guys here. To me, the guy he looks most like in our system is....Robberse. He's another smallish righty with 4 pitches, none of which are likely to profile as plus, and a fastball that is okay. Honestly he just looks like Kloffenstein-Light; both in terms of stature and prospect status.

Saggese is the guy out of that deal I like the most but for HIM to make this a winner of a deal, I think a deal for Donovan or maybe Edman has to be made to clear a spot for him. He looks to be maybe a Chris Taylor sort of player; defensively versatile with a little pop but an average hit tool. Just looks like a dirt dog who will probably play in the big leagues someday.

I think the return on Hicks was solid. I think the return on Montgomery is underwhelming. I think we got a middle reliever and a utility infielder there. I feel like you should've been able to do more than that with a #3 starter given how many teams BADLY need starting pitching and are in the thick of a post-season fight.

There’s no world where Donovan should be traded before Edman.

And Edman should be traded eventually.

I'll always dream on the possibility of a Winn/Edman middle infield.

NOTHING will get up the middle with those 2. And with the shift banned, the range of those two guys would be a MASSIVE boost to our pitching staff. People keep pretending like our defense doesn't cost us a run or 2 every game and then act surprised when we lose so many 1 run ballgames.

But give me a world where we lock GGs at SS and 2b for the next 3 years and I guarantee you the pitching improves in front of it.

Edman's been done dirty by this franchise. That said, if you could trade him to a team that needs a SS and get a true CFer back in the deal, you go ahead and do that. And put Donovan at 2b and Gorman at DH.

So here's how you defend these deals - the Cardinals got 4 guys who I think should slot into the top 12 or so on their prospects lists.

1: Winn
2: Hence
3: Chase Davis
4: Graceffo
5: Kloffenstein
6: McGreevy
7: Roby
8: Hjerpe
9: Robberse
10: Victor Scott II
11: Saggese

We'll see where the updates put some of these guys but this does goose the top 10 pretty well.

Listen, I love Edman. Elsewhere on the internet I advocated last August that Edman, when healthy, would be worth playing middle IF due to his defense and not worth upgrading for Trea Turner and upgrading C was more worthwhile.

However, Donovan makes him redundant. While he’s not as good of a defender as Edman, he’s still like 80% of the defender Edman is and a substantially better hitter than Edman is while being younger.

I like Edman, but he shouldn’t be kept over Donovan, Gorman, or Winn.

The defense issues have also been more with the OF and Burleson and Walker having to play regularly in the OF.

Also, Arenado hasn’t been as good defensively this year.

Montgomery couldn't get a single top 10 prospect from a depleted Rangers system? The top prospect is a pitcher with a history of elbow and shoulder injuries that has gotten hits teeth kicked in at AA and another MI with a 25%+ K-rate?

Here's the scouting report on Saggesse:

All the metrics grade out nicely, including defense, though even Rangers’ personnel will acknowledge that at first gaze things may look “ordinary.” He just knows how to play the game. The one thing he could potentially improve: A little less chase. But he’s made it work for him. He hits. That’s what he does.

Because that's what the team needs.

****, just take the goddamned draft pick if that's all you're getting.