Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7746227)

So, Milwaukee deals for K-Rod.

Not sure how this really helps them. Dude's not going to be happy as a setup guy, and Axford's going to be looking over his shoulder at the first sign of struggling.

Not to mention, K-Rod only needs to appear in 21 more games to have his $17M option vested.

Makes no sense to me.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7746467)

Garcia signs 4 year extension:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...9bb30f31a.html

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7746227)

So, Milwaukee deals for K-Rod.

Not sure how this really helps them. Dude's not going to be happy as a setup guy, and Axford's going to be looking over his shoulder at the first sign of struggling.

Not to mention, K-Rod only needs to appear in 21 more games to have his $17M option vested.

Makes no sense to me.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 7746532)

K-Rod has to finish 21 more games, not just appear in them.

The Brewers made no secret of the fact that they were looking for an 8th inning guy. By getting Rodriguez, they just moved either Axford or K-rod into the role. In either event, they've strengthened their bullpen immensely.

The Brewers will acknowledge that they're going for broke this season; hence the trades they're making. This deal definitely makes them a better ballclub and the PTBNL aren't likely to be of any great import. It was a pure salary dump by the Mets.

If strengthening the 8th inning gets the Brewers to the playoff, the deal was well worth it.

Originally Posted by ESPN Insider

Even under the best of circumstances, RP Francisco Rodriguez, acquired late Tuesday night from the New York Mets, wouldn't be worth more than a win to the Milwaukee Brewers over the rest of the season. But he's an odd fit for Milwaukee that makes it likely he'll be worth less than that.

Rodriguez is generating the highest ground-ball rate of his career, but is heading to a team with below-average defenders at three of its four infield spots. And he's allowing more balls in play overall this year with a career-low strikeout rate, meaning there will be more chances for Milwaukee's below-average defense (they're also weak in the outfield corners) to convert those balls in play into hits. If the Brewers were set on acquiring a reliever, they should have gone after one who misses more bats, rather than a guy who used to do that but hasn't done so this year.

As for the cost to the Brewers, all we know right now is that they're on the hook for at least $3.5 million, the value of Rodriguez's buyout, but could end up paying him the full $17.5 million next year based on a vesting clause in the reliever's contract that kicks in at 55 games closed -- he is currently at 34.

That alone is an awfully steep price to pay for maybe an added win in 2011, but they're also sending two players to be named to the Mets, and it could make this even worse if either of those players is a decent prospect.

Milwaukee's system is depleted right now, but they do have players who project to have some major league value, from Wily Peralta to Tyler Thornburg to Khris Davis (who needs a promotion to Double-A). Even one of those would be too much to give up on top of the money they owe Rodriguez.

The Mets come out looking pretty good, ridding themselves of that option, its buyout and a headache that threatened to affect how Terry Collins ran his bullpen. If they can also land a useful prospect or two in the bargain, so much the better.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 7746532)

K-Rod has to finish 21 more games, not just appear in them.

The Brewers made no secret of the fact that they were looking for an 8th inning guy. By getting Rodriguez, they just moved either Axford or K-rod into the role. In either event, they've strengthened their bullpen immensely.

The Brewers will acknowledge that they're going for broke this season; hence the trades they're making. This deal definitely makes them a better ballclub and the PTBNL aren't likely to be of any great import. It was a pure salary dump by the Mets.

If strengthening the 8th inning gets the Brewers to the playoff, the deal was well worth it.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7746227)

So, Milwaukee deals for K-Rod.

Not sure how this really helps them. Dude's not going to be happy as a setup guy, and Axford's going to be looking over his shoulder at the first sign of struggling.

Not to mention, K-Rod only needs to appear in 21 more games to have his $17M option vested.

Makes no sense to me.

Originally Posted by Rams Fan (Post 7746776)

I believe I read somewhere that K-Rod said he'd be fine setting up for a contender.

And the Brewers are imploding their minor league system for nothing. They're basically in a win it all mode. If they don't win this season, chances are we won't see them win for awhile.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7746595)

FWIW, Keith Law doesn't think this deal is worth more than a single win for Milwaukee. And my mistake on the appearances/finishes. I read that wrong.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 7746796)

Using WAR to evaluate the value of a short-term bullpen solution is the worst kind of blind stats worshipping.

I have made no secret of my general disdain for Law, but his use of win shares to discuss the value of an 8th inning guy over 3 months of play is completely asinine. If K-Rod is able to get 1 clutch out that the previously leaky Brewers bullpen wasn't able to get - boom: win added. Will it add a full win-share? No, nothing close, but that's not at all useful when discussing the value of such a high leverage, low use position like setup man.

The Brewers had a bad bullpen. Now they have no worse than an average bullpen (probably slightly above average). Better still, they have a borderline excellent back end of their bullpen (certainly better than STLs). That's a huge huge deal coming down the stretch and it simply doesn't quantify well.

Law's being something of a statistic simpleton here. This move makes it harder for STL to win the division and will likely only cost the Brewers a little bit of money in the long run.

Originally Posted by Rams Fan (Post 7746819)

DeWitt did an interview on 590 this morning.

Here's what someone summed about it:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 7746896)

Here's the thing: That's a water is wet interview.

The question isn't "Does Colby have talent?", the question is "is that talent worth waiting on?"

Ultimately I'm certain he's a much more talented ballplayer than Jay, but I'm not certain he's going to remain a much more productive ballplayer than Jay. And with Craig coming back soon (and having arguably the best stick of the bunch), I see a logjam of OFers.

If the Rays are interested in Rasmus as rumored, I'd take Matt Moore off their hands in a heartbeat for him.

Can you imagine a 2013 rotation of Wainwright, Garcia, Shelby, Moore, Martinez? 5 guys with plus stuff, all of them with slightly different stuff and 2 of them throw with their wrong hand. It would be a dominant, young, cheap rotation that could actually allow us to compete with the aging/expensive Holliday/Pujols core.

Trading Rasmus makes sense if you can get the right return for him. I don't see Moore as an impossible dream there.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7746908)

So you're willing to concede the 2011 season?

Moore's a great get, but he's two years away. This club isn't making the playoffs this year without getting some help in the rotation, IMO.

Granted, it can be argued that even if they move for a #3 starter, they're still not good enough to compete in the playoffs, so make the deal that helps long-term.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 7746927)

I'll bet Moore could immediately step in and be our best reliever. I know he'd solve that LRHP in a hurry. You'd also be able to control his innings a little and get his feet wet against ML hitters.

The kid's a 22 yr old that has dominated the minors for coming on his 3rd season. He's only 2 years away in exceedingly cautious organizations like STL, but he's absolutely a ML product right now. Did you see him in the futures game? Hell, I think he could actually step right in and immediately be the 4th starter on this squad. The kid is nails, absolute nails.

He can absolutely help us this season. Beyond that, if you have a chance to get the kid - you get him. The name I'm hearing most often is Shields, but he's pitching way over his head right now. Trading Rasmus for a stopgap #2 starter and foregoing a probable ace caliber starter all in the name of a moderately improved chance of getting your shit pushed in by Philly is just not a wise decision.

Sorry, but the possibility of having a rotation fronted by 3 elite starters in their mid/low 20s, all of whom possess 200K stuff and give you different looks every day gets me absolutely rock hard. And hell, that's not even talking about a guy that should've won a CY 2 years ago or the kid we just gave a 4 yr deal. Jaime Garcia as your 5th starter? Are you kidding me? The Royals are drooling over their farm system right now, but if you make that deal do you realize the Cards would have the #1, #3 and #9 SP prospects in all of major league baseball (and #9 has been coming with a bullet; Martinez is exploding up the lists right now)?

Look at the direction MLB is going - that's how you're going to win championships in the coming years. I'll take a diminished chance at success this season (where we're a darkhorse, at best) if it means having the best rotation in baseball for 1/2 a decade.