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-   -   NFL Draft A mock draft that will make your heads explode (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=268335)

Exoter175 01-02-2013 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 9267040)
Alright gonna play some devil's advocate here.

Say that 3 weeks from now at the Senior Bowl, every QB there doesn't look great. They all look about the same. Nothing special or standing out to an NFL coaching staff and scouts have concerns.

Then at the combine, some of them show really good IQ, but again their physical abilities are good in different areas (size, touch, accuracy, etc).

Going into April, scouts from across the league, as well as GM's, reportedly don't think that any of these QB's warrant a top 10 pick because the class is that bad.

What do you do?

Depends on what the rest of the players in the Senior Bowl do, how the combine goes, and how Pro Days go, and how we work Free Agency.

If all of the QBs are Decent but show no separation, we sign Albert, and Te'O doesn't separate like I think he has, I'm drafting Geno Smith unless Wilson is guaranteed to be 2nd round talent.

RealSNR 01-02-2013 02:27 AM

I need to justify my opinions? What the **** do you think I've been doing?

How about YOU tell me what makes Te'o so ****ing special? And how about YOU tell me why the **** teams like Jacksonville, Oakland, Cleveland, Arizona, Buffalo, New York, and many others would ALL pass on a QB in the first round?

You're the one making the ridiculous argument that only one or two QBs will be drafted in the first round. I'm not backing shit for you.

Go do your ****ing homework before you lecture me on logic and foundations of an argument, when all you've been doing is using tricks and sophistry to pimp up an ILB being taken at #1 overall.

NJChiefsFan 01-02-2013 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exoter175 (Post 9267041)
Right?

Because I believe in logic and practical analysis, and don't believe that at eam will draft a guy solely because Kiper ranks him higher.

So while I do have Wilson very high on my list, I don't think the draft will follow that suit because what works for one team, will not always work for another.

You'll also remember that there seems to be USC QB love in the NFL, often making guys go much earlier than they should have in the draft, Barkley is definitely going to benefit from that IMO, but I do not think more than 3 QBs are taken in the draft, thus why I accepted that bet earlier for the sig.

It's funny how highly you think of yourself. You can keep screaming about logic all you want. I'm assuming when you say that no more than 3 QBs are going in the draft, that you mean the 1st round.

RealSNR 01-02-2013 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exoter175 (Post 9267030)



I think you're underselling Te'o stil, but it doesn't bother me. I do agree that Geno will help a lot, but how much more will Geno help over, say, Wilson or Bray? So far from what everyone has seen, that gets paid for their input, not much if any. So why not go ahead and take that guy who is head and shoulders above the rest, Te'O and then get your equal value QB in the 2nd?

That's your entire ****ing problem. It's based on the assumption that Te'o is "head and shoulders above the rest"

That's wrong. The foundation of your argument is based on a faulty premise. I've been trying to tell you that all ****ing night.

NJChiefsFan 01-02-2013 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exoter175 (Post 9267044)
Depends on what the rest of the players in the Senior Bowl do, how the combine goes, and how Pro Days go, and how we work Free Agency.

If all of the QBs are Decent but show no separation, we sign Albert, and Te'O doesn't separate like I think he has, I'm drafting Geno Smith unless Wilson is guaranteed to be 2nd round talent.

And how does that happen exactly? Skipping on Geno thinking Wilson will be there in the 2nd is reckless. Accepting a guy like Bray or maybe Glennon over Geno because of Teo is silly. Even with a bad pro day ect, there will be nothing remotely close to a guarantee that Wilson will be there in the second.

RunKC 01-02-2013 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exoter175 (Post 9267044)
Depends on what the rest of the players in the Senior Bowl do, how the combine goes, and how Pro Days go, and how we work Free Agency.

If all of the QBs are Decent but show no separation, we sign Albert, and Te'O doesn't separate like I think he has, I'm drafting Geno Smith unless Wilson is guaranteed to be 2nd round talent.

Let me expand. The combine is over and you feel this way. No QB's are said to be worth a top 10 pick.

Joekel, Lewan, J. Jones, D. Moore, Star L. and Werner look like top 5 picks.

Scouts say that eitherTyler Bray, Mike Glennon or Matt Barkley will be in round 2, if not all of them.

You know this at the end of February before free agency.

Nightfyre 01-02-2013 02:35 AM

AJ Klein brings you exactly what Manti Teo brings you. Just sayin

NJChiefsFan 01-02-2013 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9267048)
That's your entire ****ing problem. It's based on the assumption that Te'o is "head and shoulders above the rest"

That's wrong. The foundation of your argument is based on a faulty premise. I've been trying to tell you that all ****ing night.

He thinks we don't understand his argument. That if all the QBs are equal then take the BPA, which is Teo. He keeps missing that we understand his argument but think he is completely wrong that the QBs are equal and that Teo is not the BPA. He then wanted us all to just invite ourselves into his hypothetical for a moment. When we didn't, we were idiots who don't think as logically as he does. He doesn't seem to understand that we don't give a **** about his hypothetical. We are talking about what actually is, and that involves Teo not being BPA and Bray/Glennon/Barkley not being equal to Geno or Wilson.

RunKC 01-02-2013 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9267048)
That's your entire ****ing problem. It's based on the assumption that Te'o is "head and shoulders above the rest"

That's wrong. The foundation of your argument is based on a faulty premise. I've been trying to tell you that all ****ing night.

I agree with SNR here. Te'o isn't even as good as Luke Keuchly was last year.

I don't see a big difference between Te'o and Ogletree/Skov/Minter.

RealSNR 01-02-2013 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 9267054)
AJ Klein brings you exactly what Manti Teo brings you. Just sayin

Why sacrifice ILB value when we can sacrifice QB value? /Excreter

Saccopoo 01-02-2013 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9267048)
That's your entire ****ing problem. It's based on the assumption that Te'o is "head and shoulders above the rest"

That's wrong. The foundation of your argument is based on a faulty premise. I've been trying to tell you that all ****ing night.

The problem is, he doesn't have a grasp of positional value.

I don't give a rat's **** if Te'o is the petri dish love child of Dick Butkus, Pat Willis, Jack Lambert, Mike Singletary, Brian Urlacher and Ray Lewis. (And he's not close to these guys and we know it, it's just that this functionally reeruned dipshit doesn't know it. He probably paid for the ESPN Insider and feels the need to validate his purchase by parroting Kiper.)

He's still a Mike in a 34. The ****ing punter has more positional value. The right offensive guard has more positional value.

And this dumb **** just doesn't get it. At all.

Either that or he's the archangel of all internet trolls.

I'm going with the former. There's no way possible a troll would put forth so much effort in such inane and excessive forum loquaciousness. The guy is just one amazingly stubborn dipshit.

Exoter175 01-02-2013 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9267046)
I need to justify my opinions? What the **** do you think I've been doing?

How about YOU tell me what makes Te'o so ****ing special? And how about YOU tell me why the **** teams like Jacksonville, Oakland, Cleveland, Arizona, Buffalo, New York, and many others would ALL pass on a QB in the first round?

You're the one making the ridiculous argument that only one or two QBs will be drafted in the first round. I'm not backing shit for you.

Go do your ****ing homework before you lecture me on logic and foundations of an argument, when all you've been doing is using tricks and sophistry to pimp up an ILB being taken at #1 overall.


What do I think you've been doing? I think you've been changing the variables within my argument to state your opinion against mine, after changing said variable. That is not allowed in my hypothetical argument, so try to stay on track if you want to disprove my idea or want to judge me on my choice in MY scenario, rather than create one for yourself for me to dice up and ridicule. I'll gladly wait.

As for Te'o, he's a solid tackler and one of the best in terms of Pass Coverage, you need that in this league from your ILB's, and there aren't many in this draft that I've seen that are nearly as good in pass coverage on top of run support.

As for your teams that you suggest will draft QB's. Arizona might pass all together if Reid lands there. Buffalo might keep Fitz and his contract, he isn't that bad and I don't think they've got enough talent built up on the offensive side of the ball to go after a QB right now. New York is a cluster**** with Tebow, Sanchize and McElroy there, I doubt they add a first round QB there with how bipolar their defense has been this year. Cleveland just spent a pick on Weeden, and McCoy not long ago, and Quinn before that, no way do they do it here again in this shitty of a draft.

I think Oakland likes what little they saw from Pryor and I believe have Palmer under contract still, I think they'll wait til the 2nd or 3rd to get a QB if they decide to go that route.

Jacksonville just spent a pick in 2010 on Gabbert and signed Henne, I don't honestly think they'll dip so quickly into the first round for a QB, especially in this draft.

So again, who do you have taking QB's? I've said at most 3 in the first round, and I think that's fairly accurate so far.

I've done nothing to pimp up an ILB at #1, I just said I'm not opposed to Te'O right now if we can get the same value in the 2nd if the QB's don't manage to separate themselves and Te'o blows up at the combine.

There's a lot of qualifiers in that statement I just made, so tread lightly before you dissect.
Quote:

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan (Post 9267047)
It's funny how highly you think of yourself. You can keep screaming about logic all you want. I'm assuming when you say that no more than 3 QBs are going in the draft, that you mean the 1st round.

I'm pretty awesome, and yes I mean 1st round. Thanks for the correction!
Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9267048)
That's your entire ****ing problem. It's based on the assumption that Te'o is "head and shoulders above the rest"

That's wrong. The foundation of your argument is based on a faulty premise. I've been trying to tell you that all ****ing night.

We don't know if that is wrong, actually. We will find out after the Combine and after his Pro Day, only then will we be able to truly evaluate him and place him correctly. As of right now, he's been phenomenal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan (Post 9267051)
And how does that happen exactly? Skipping on Geno thinking Wilson will be there in the 2nd is reckless. Accepting a guy like Bray or maybe Glennon over Geno because of Teo is silly. Even with a bad pro day ect, there will be nothing remotely close to a guarantee that Wilson will be there in the second.

As of right now, I think Wilson will be, as I believe it'll most likely be Geno and Barkley taken in the first as there is little need for QB's in this draft at least 1st round selections. If that doesn't happen, at worst we get Bray who I think is going to be on par with Wilson or just a touch behind him. Keep in mind, I also am very high on Te'o right now, and that could change too. If he disappoints at the combine, I'll be 110% on the Geno/Wilson nutswingers club should they do better than average.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 9267053)
Let me expand. The combine is over and you feel this way. No QB's are said to be worth a top 10 pick.

Joekel, Lewan, J. Jones, D. Moore, Star L. and Werner look like top 5 picks.

Scouts say that eitherTyler Bray, Mike Glennon or Matt Barkley will be in round 2, if not all of them.

You know this at the end of February before free agency.

So there are no QB's slated for the top 10, Bray and Barkley are said to be in the 2nd round, Te'o isn't listed as a top 5 pick, and I've yet to sign Albert?

I'll retort before I decide. Has Geno distanced himself as the #1 candidate for QB?

Exoter175 01-02-2013 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 9267054)
AJ Klein brings you exactly what Manti Teo brings you. Just sayin

:spock:
Quote:

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan (Post 9267055)
He thinks we don't understand his argument. That if all the QBs are equal then take the BPA, which is Teo. He keeps missing that we understand his argument but think he is completely wrong that the QBs are equal and that Teo is not the BPA. He then wanted us all to just invite ourselves into his hypothetical for a moment. When we didn't, we were idiots who don't think as logically as he does. He doesn't seem to understand that we don't give a **** about his hypothetical. We are talking about what actually is, and that involves Teo not being BPA and Bray/Glennon/Barkley not being equal to Geno or Wilson.

So, **** my Hypothetical. Bray and Wilson are on par with Geno, and Barkley is up in the air.

Te'o is hands down the best ILB going into the combine. If I believe any of those 4 QB's are available in the 2nd round, I take Te'o hands down, as I believe there is no real separation at QB, and until I see evidence of that, I'll stick with it.

Sorry, that is just sound logic right there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 9267056)
I agree with SNR here. Te'o isn't even as good as Luke Keuchly was last year.

I don't see a big difference between Te'o and Ogletree/Skov/Minter.

And that's where I disagree, I think there is a difference and that difference is pass coverage mainly, but I might even agree with you on Keuchly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9267057)
Why sacrifice ILB value when we can sacrifice QB value? /Excreter

I think you mean, why sacrifice ILB value when you don't have to sacrifice QB value, ****stick.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 9267061)
The problem is, he doesn't have a grasp of positional value.

I don't give a rat's **** if Te'o is the petri dish love child of Dick Butkus, Pat Willis, Jack Lambert, Mike Singletary, Brian Urlacher and Ray Lewis. (And he's not close to these guys and we know it, it's just that this functionally reeruned dipshit doesn't know it. He probably paid for the ESPN Insider and feels the need to validate his purchase by parroting Kiper.)

He's still a Mike in a 34. The ****ing punter has more positional value. The right offensive guard has more positional value.

And this dumb **** just doesn't get it. At all.

Either that or he's the archangel of all internet trolls.

I'm going with the former. There's no way possible a troll would put forth so much effort in such inane and excessive forum loquaciousness. The guy is just one amazingly stubborn dipshit.

Trolling, definitely. Stubborn, absolutely, dumb? Nahhh.

I understand positional value, but I think you're seriously overvaluing many positions on our roster, and overvaluing or even undervaluing many players at their respective positiions.

Even in a 34, Mike is still one of the most important positions on the field.

Then again, I'm a total homer because I played Mike in school

Now you have it, it is all unveiled, I'm going homer for Te'o because I played his position when I played football (unlike most of you).

NJChiefsFan 01-02-2013 02:55 AM

Chiefs
Bills
Jets
Cardinals

Hell maybe one or more of
Browns If Kelly or whoever doesn't care for Weeden
Jags if new GM doesn't want Tebow
Raiders
Chargers Some of these "precious" mocks have mentioned this

I don't see any way Wilson survives that. Especially with the new rookie scale. If the scal didn't exist the Jags and Browns would be off the list. Chargers as well.

You also only have sound logic if Bray and Wilson are on par, which they aren't. Yet another post where you mention how smart(or not dumb) you are. Shocking. I hope for your sake you don't have to keep telling yourself how smart you are in real life.

Setsuna 01-02-2013 02:56 AM

NO WAY Glennon is first QB off the board. Crackpot mock draft.


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