We aren't the Spankmees here

Yes, any of those names would be a poor deal in my opinion right now, and I would like a shortstop. I would prefer to see what the Rangers might want for Andrus. I don't think they will shop him in the offseason, but I could see them around the trade deadline fielding offers if their prospect is as ready as most seem to think.

I am not a huge Holliday basher, he has put up steady numbers here, but if there is someone willing to buy high on him right now I would field those offers. We have Craig who is probably better suited for left field. Adams who could potentially replace or equal Holliday's numbers at first base. Jay/Taveras in CF, Beltran/Taveras in RF.

Holliday is never going to be a guy who carries your club, the value on his contract has been fine so far, but he is entering that part of his career where he could start a Jason Bay type decline, but at best he is probably no better than the replacement value we already have to plug in at much reduced levels.

Yeah, let's give up on a kid that couldn't throw 200 innings in the bigs in his first shot as a full-time starter after throwing as a reliever the year before.

He was great in April, May and September. He was very good in July. There's no question that he struggled in June and August, before clearly hitting a wall in October, but these things happen to young pitchers.

Lynn is built like a horse and has a good power arsenal. He's essentially Aaron Harang at a hair over the minimum.

If you call him an ace caliber starter, yeah you're overrating him. If you call him among the best #3 starters in baseball, you're not. He's more valuable throwing 200 innings with a 3.50 ERA than Asdrubal Cabrera is playing Jeterrific defense and providing hollow offense. Given their respective financial obligations, it's not even close.

His 'replacement' would end up being Matt Adams or Matt Carpenter at 1b.

Matt Holliday is much better than those 2.

Unless you could get a legitimate long-term asset in return (i.e. Andrus), there's no way to trade Holliday. Nick Swisher will walk away with a better contract than Holliday at the end of this FA period, just watch.

The new television deals are about to obliterate the financial landscape, especially with the Dodgers looking to get involved. If you have a star caliber player locked up long-term on a deal that came before that, you'd be wise not to trade him.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, lets give up on the kid because after training as a reliever for 6 months, he ran out of gas at 175 innings. Hell, K/Inning starting pitchers with 95 mph stuff grow on trees, right? If you liked him for a single inning in April and May as a starter and now you're looking to bury him as a reliever, then you're an idiot.

Anyone that didn't expect Lynn to hit a wall had their head in the sand. You cannot train your arm for short bursts and rapid bouncebacks and then suddenly not face impediments when trying to throw 7/8 innings. Hell, you could see it October - he was very good for three innings and then the arm just wasn't there anymore. He got tired - shit happens.

Matheny is who to blame for Lance Lynn's October failures, not Lynn.

Before he hit a wall in October he was showing a routine ability to pitch into the 7th and maintain plus stuff. Lynn threw 100+ pitches in 16 of his first 23 starts before they shut him down, something he wasn't asked to do at all last season and something he wasn't told to prepare for before the season started. He still managed to so quite well with it.

Wong isn't even as good a leadoff candidate as his MI mate in Springfield, Greg Garcia. 44 BBs in nearly 600 PAs does not inspire great confidence in Wong's leadoff potential (Garcia looks like a great fit if he can keep progressing, though). Wong appears to be a natural #2 hitter.

Excuse me for not going all RAH RAH over a guy who crumpled like an empty beer can after the first time through the lineup in back-to-back playoff games.

It's wonderful that he pitches well in April. But those October games are sort of important sometimes.

You can't be serious. Are you just ignoring everything that doesn't fit your rant?

He had trained his arm for 9 months to be a reliever. Then he threw 175 innings and his arm got tired. Hell, the kid only threw 110 innings the season before. He trained as a reliever and threw 65 more innings than he threw the previous season; more than a 50% increase. He didn't even expect to be a starter (or even the backup starter) until 3 weeks before the regular season started.

GASP! What a useless one who sucks the penis that guy is. He should've totally been expected to throw 7 clean innings in playoff games when there simply wasn't anything left in his arm at all. The kid was spent, it was obvious to anyone that watched him pitch. He was going out there and having to go max-effort to get through the lineup once.

It was Mike Matheny's fault that Lynn failed, just as it would've been had he expected Boggs to go through the order twice.

Lynn's effort was borderline superhuman last season, but leave it to you to throw him under the bus for the failings of his manager. Afterall, you're the same guy that had to have Jason Motte shoved down your throat before you'd finally stop blaming him for sunsets.

You know, I really have better things to do this morning than arguing bad pitching with the Direcshun of Baseball. Have fun defending your superhuman pitcher who can't make it through four innings of playoff baseball. :whackit:

I'd probably bail out of an argument where I was giving up on a 25 year old pitcher that struck out 180 guys in 175 innings after training as a reliever in the offseason. Especially when that same guy showed that the pressure didn't bother him in the post-season the year before.

Yeah, you're probably right. You have a lot better things to do than look like a reactionary idiot.

I would disagree with the "much" better at least in Adams case. You have valid points and I'm not advocating giving the guy away. He is 32 however, a and we have probably already gotten the most out of that contract with him as we ever will on the back end. If someone needs a solid right handed stick at a reasonable rate we could expect a nice return. Adams has the potential to hit for Holliday type power 20-30 hr's a year, decent average (he sprays to all fields) .280 to .310 for example. You also get a slight upgrade defensively in both positions.

Again, don't give the guy away, but if you get the opportunity to significantly upgrade at SS, and maybe some solid left handed pitching help you have to take a serious look. I don't want to touch any of our young pitching right now.

You are a good fan, and he didn't end the season well at all (both physically and mentally), however his upside is still there if for only the back end of a rotation. Without him at the beginning of the year we get buried in the standings. If he comes in as a fat cow this spring and doesn't learn from his mistakes demote him to middle relief, otherwise he is a good problem to have. A horse at the back end of your rotation that has top end stuff. Garcia is the guy I am done with counting on right now. If he was right handed he would be checking your groceries at Kroger's by now.

Well, I'm sure our Resident Crazy Homeless Person Stats Guy will start screaming at me again from his street corner, but I just don't see how a young pitcher who starts breaking down halfway through the season is a "horse."

Yeah, innings pitched, K/9 and MPH.

Real complicated shit right there.

He is a solid 4th or 5th starter at a minimum, with a ceiling as a 1 or 2 guy. Hopefully his second full season as a starter will work out better and his arm won't turn into a noodle. That many innings on a young arm can be hell, even if he has no arm injury issues.