ChiefsPlanet

ChiefsPlanet (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/index.php)
-   Nzoner's Game Room (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=1)
-   -   Royals *** Official Royals Repository, Part 3 *** (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=293414)

'Hamas' Jenkins 07-27-2015 03:59 PM

I guess I must have misunderstood you. I knew Escobar was your leadoff hitter. I thought you were talking about whether Infante should be leadoff or whether he was worth as much as Escobar.

FWIW, this is why you hit Infante 9th:

1st - 762
2nd - 743
3rd - 725
4th - 709
5th - 693
6th - 675
7th - 657
8th - 638
9th - 618

That's the average # of PA per batting order per season. Basically, every time you move someone down you see them about 18 fewer times a year. Imagine the improvement in your offense with Gordon having 90 more ABs and Escobar 90 fewer.

C3HIEF3S 07-27-2015 04:03 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Royals?src=hash">#Royals</a> say reports of anyone failing medicals during trade talks were completely inaccurate -- never happened. <a href="https://t.co/FT2mku9CfB">https://t.co/FT2mku9CfB</a></p>&mdash; Jeffrey Flanagan (@FlannyMLB) <a href="https://twitter.com/FlannyMLB/status/625788015248408576">July 27, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

KChiefs1 07-27-2015 04:03 PM

http://www.royalsreview.com/2015/7/2...-trade-for-him

Quote:

This is sort of a counterpoint to the excellent Jeff Passan’s article of today "10 Degrees: A trade deadline primer…"

I didn’t want the Cueto trade to happen. If I somehow had the power to reverse the trade now, I would not – I’ve come around to it mostly because of what the Royals DIDN’T give up…and because Cueto is awesome – but I was against it.

I was against in part because of my memory of deadline trades – especially for starters – not seeming to work especially well over the years. Jeff Sullivan sort of confirmed that suspicion, with an admittedly crude study. But I was against it for more philosophical reasons having to do with Windows and Succession Planning:

Given that I’m cranking this out over my lunch hour and that I’ve been writing powerpoint presentations all morning, here’s a table of contents for this post:

1. 1. The Playoffs are a lottery (just ask Billy Beane)

2. 2. The importance of a succession plan (get a lottery ticket every year)

3. 3. We shouldn’t let "Window paranoia" allow us to abandon the succession plan and blow up the pipeline

That’s pretty much the whole post right there, isn’t it? Isn’t powerpoint great? I guess I can go back to work now.

A few additional comments (speaker notes, if you will):

1. 1. The Playoffs are a lottery

I don’t know that this requires a whole lot of additional contemplation – you either agree or disagree. Last year the Royals went to the last game of the WS with a rotation that included Jeremy Guthrie and Jason Vargas. They swept the Angels (one of the best teams in baseball) and the Orioles and battled to game seven with a rotation that included Jeremy Guthrie and Jason Vargas! (Jeremy, Jason, love you guys). More than that, their #1 starter (Shields) was not particularly effective. I strongly believe that the regular season more accurately reflects the quality of a team while the playoffs are mostly a lottery. Many GM’s agree, most notably Billy Beane.

2. 2. The Importance of a Succession Plan

If you agree that the playoffs are basically a lottery, then your #1 objective should be to get a lottery ticket every year. This is one difference between baseball and football I think: In football you can structure a team that is built to reach the playoffs but not succeed once you get there. This would be my childhood Chiefs. In baseball you can start clicking on all cylinders and win games against very good teams started by Jason Vargas and Jeremy Guthrie. The key to success in baseball is to lay the foundation of a team by building from within, and then decorate your solid foundation with rentals and free agents. Isn’t this the widely accepted blueprint? You can make an argument that prospects are overvalued, that the rate failure in the major leagues is extraordinarily high. I understand and accept that…but isn’t that an argument to hoard more of them?

This segues to the idea of Windows.

3. 3. Don’t let Window paranoia cause you to abandon your succession plan

Regarding Ben Zobrist, Jeff Passan says: "if it takes a Sean Manaea or Miguel Almonte to get him, the Royals are pot committed enough that they ought to push themselves all-in and try to ready themselves as best they can to do this year what they couldn’t last."

Um, Jeff, the Royals came within one game of winning it all last year!

Let’s consider for a moment – at an extremely high level – what the Royals’ succession plan currently is. Let’s say they lock up Duffy, let’s assume for argument that Duffy is here long term. Let’s assume also that Ventura’s arm will be fine over the long term and that we can count on him for some period of time beyond 2017, however unlikely that may be. What is the Royal’s long term plan for the rotation? It looks to me like Manaea, Zimmer & Almonte are a significant part of it.

"But the Royals will lose Gordon next year and Hosmer, Moose, Cain, etc., after 2017" you say. So in other words, you are saying that Royals will instantly revert back to the team you knew before, that this is their little bubble of good fortune before they become terrible again. Might as well go ahead and cash all of their chips in now to incrementally increase their playoff odds!

Stop the self loathing. The Royals are going to be good beyond 2017. You don’t know they won’t retain some combination of those players heading toward free agency for one thing, and you don’t know what they might bring back in trade if they won’t re-sign, and you don’t know what other players from the farm system might capably replace them. Let’s take a look at what the 2012 Cardinals’ roster looked like (the equivalent of us, in 2018, looking back at our roster of today).

C: Yady Molina: still here!

1B: Allen Craig: gone. Not even good anymore.

2B: Daniel Descalso: ?

SS: Rafael Furcal: wasn’t he a Royal this year? (Arizona Royal)

3B: David Freese: gone

LF: Matt Holliday: still here!

CF: Jon Jay: still here! (although isn’t he a part timer now? Am I wrong about that?)

RF: Carlos Beltran: gone

Rotation: Kyle Lohse, Wainwright, Lance Lynn, Jake Westbrook, Jaime Garcia, Chris Carpenter, Shelby Miller…: Wainwright’s still around, but not playing.

My point: the Cardinals had/have a great succession plan. They could have bemoaned what might happen to the team in 2015, but look at them now. Trust the process people, the Royals will find a way to staff the team.

But not if they trade for Ben Zobrist.

Fansy the Famous Bard 07-27-2015 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0 (Post 11621877)

Last postseason erased that doubt from Mike Moustakas ... and suddenly he's a .300 hitter with an .800 OPS and already has more hits this year than all of last year.

You don't think it has anything to do with him Completely overhauling his swing\approach in the offseason?

Anyong Bluth 07-27-2015 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C3HIEF3S (Post 11621687)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Eric Hosmer on acquiring Johnny Cueto: &quot;It&#39;s a good time to be a Kansas City Royal.&quot;</p>— Andy McCullough (@McCulloughStar) <a href="https://twitter.com/McCulloughStar/status/625759130540748800">July 27, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'll be impressed when he says that in 2018. Otherwise, water be wet

Prison Bitch 07-27-2015 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 11621922)
Their expectations are completely different. A #3 starter is expected to be a better than league average pitcher. They will go deeper into games, too. They'll face more batters and thus have a bigger outcome on the team's success per start. A #5 starter is going to be, on average, one of the 30 worst starters in the league. They will give up more runs and work shorter outings. They put the team in worse positions and tax the bullpen harder on average.

Morever, many teams use off days as a way to skip the #5 if possible. Fives are also almost completely worthless in the postseason, as they are used either as long relief, mop up duty, or extra innings games only.

The difference between a #3 and a #5 in a H2H matchup may only be 5%, but when you multiply that by 34 starts it can make the difference between making the postseason or not.


Let's try this. The Royals picked up Cueto. Which happened:


1) Cueto replaces Ventura as the 1, setting off a chain reaction where everyone moves down a slot

2) Cueto simply replaces Young

BWillie 07-27-2015 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 11621963)
I guess I must have misunderstood you. I knew Escobar was your leadoff hitter. I thought you were talking about whether Infante should be leadoff or whether he was worth as much as Escobar.

FWIW, this is why you hit Infante 9th:

1st - 762
2nd - 743
3rd - 725
4th - 709
5th - 693
6th - 675
7th - 657
8th - 638
9th - 618

That's the average # of PA per batting order per season. Basically, every time you move someone down you see them about 18 fewer times a year. Imagine the improvement in your offense with Gordon having 90 more ABs and Escobar 90 fewer.

This stuff here, is gold. Simple too.

Bufkin 07-27-2015 04:10 PM

I just don't agree with giving up more valuable prospects for a career 264 hitter who's averaging less than 10 home runs a season the past few seasons.

Anyong Bluth 07-27-2015 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molitoth (Post 11621815)
Shouldn't the 5th spot just go to whomever is the "hottest" at the time?

Let me check the hot meter.

BWillie 07-27-2015 04:12 PM

So apparently Shane Victorino still plays baseball. Had no clue. He just got traded to the Angels. He's only played 63 games the last two years.

Anyong Bluth 07-27-2015 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srvy (Post 11621828)
How bout Cueto and Quez?

I don't get why you would go by your buddy's name.


Hi, I'm Jake, and this is my buddy Donny. Except, everyone that knows me calls me Donny?

...okay?

BWillie 07-27-2015 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth (Post 11621995)
I don't get why you would go by your buddy's name.


Hi, I'm Jake, and this is my buddy Donny. Except, everyone that knows me calls me Donny?

...okay?

It probably means something, despite being synonymous to Johnny's last name.

I don't know, I don't speak French.

Anyong Bluth 07-27-2015 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0 (Post 11621877)
8 years ago, I was probably one of the 10 best slow pitch softball players in my area. Fast forward to today ... I am still a hell of a fielder but I'm not 9 weeks in and I still haven't ****ing hit anything other than a god damn pop up or rolled over a pitch to 1st base. It's ****ing terrible. I'm a head case. If you don't think some of these hitters like Hosmer who are prone to huge slumps aren't giant head cases, then you're insane. This is why I predicted guys like Hosmer and Moose would be exponentially better this year. They are extremely talented guys ... but Moose every single year had such a terrible April he pressed constantly to get out of it. When you look at your stat line every day and you're a .180 hitter 35 games in and you're a young guy who's career is suddenly in jeopardy, you press.

Last postseason erased that doubt from Mike Moustakas ... and suddenly he's a .300 hitter with an .800 OPS and already has more hits this year than all of last year.

Talent gets you so far ... but you also need confidence. Swagger is a real thing.

The Show 2016: rec league softball

cosmo20002 07-27-2015 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 11621963)
I guess I must have misunderstood you. I knew Escobar was your leadoff hitter. I thought you were talking about whether Infante should be leadoff or whether he was worth as much as Escobar.

FWIW, this is why you hit Infante 9th:

1st - 762
2nd - 743
3rd - 725
4th - 709
5th - 693
6th - 675
7th - 657
8th - 638
9th - 618

That's the average # of PA per batting order per season. Basically, every time you move someone down you see them about 18 fewer times a year. Imagine the improvement in your offense with Gordon having 90 more ABs and Escobar 90 fewer.

I've been in favor of switching Gordon and Escobar, and now that you've laid it out like that, it seems that the difference would be about 7 additional times on base, likely BBs. Maybe a couple singles from Esky are now Gordon HRs, which would result in a few more runs.

What do you figure the impact as?

chiefqueen 07-27-2015 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C3HIEF3S (Post 11621943)
Oh, we're ****ed.
Just FYI: The Indians, after getting swept by the White Sox at home, held the dreaded Players Only meeting after the game. #Royals
— Jeffrey Flanagan (@FlannyMLB) July 27, 2015
<SCRIPT charset=utf-8 src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" async></SCRIPT>

Does this mean we're playing the 2015 AL Champs tonight?


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:04 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.