Danny Duffy is suddenly our game 3 starter? Based off of what evidence?

Danny Duffy pitched in 1 postseason game last year. Danny Duffy has shown me zero evidence he's currently one of our postseason starters.

And you really want to trot Mr. Headcase out there in the postseason even if he is clicking? Boy, can't wait to see how that turns out.

The fact of the matter is ... IMO, with trading Duffy and Finnegan, you'd be trading your #5 postseason pitcher (Duffy) and an easily replaceable 5th inning or long reliever type (in case you need a bridge to MHDH) for THE BEST ****ING PITCHER WE'VE SEEN IN A LONG TIME (the only comparison being Greinke in 2009).

Try and think back for a second.

WE ARE POTENTIALLY TRADING FOR 2009 ZACK GREINKE, AND SOME OF YOU WON'T TRADE DANNY DUFFY AND BRANDON FINNEGAN TO ACQUIRE THIS TO BOLSTER A TEAM WHO HAS 1 ****ING WEAKNESS RIGHT NOW (starting pitching).

I mean.

OMG

For the record, I'm not saying Cueto will solve all our problems. There's a legitimate argument against him because he had an all-time playoff meltdown in his last playoff game.

But I do think you generally need someone pitching like an ace to win. You need someone who can go toe-to-toe with another ace pitcher and give you 6 or 7 shutout innings. You guys are looking way too hard and probabilities and numbers and completely overthinking it. Even the greatest all-star offenses have been shut down when they ran into a buzzsaw like Randy Johnson, or Beckett, or Bumgarner. I've yet to see anyone give a solid example of a team that won it all with a bunch of #4-5 starters. Meanwhile you can run off 10 or 12 champs that had a guy pitching at an elite level.

That's why I didn't hate the Shields trade. You need a true #1 you can hand the ball to if you're going to win. It's the only constant. Teams with struggling offenses have succeeded, teams with all star offenses have failed. But most champions have a pitcher or two pitching at an All-Star level.

Yes, he would. I'm saying that because I'm throwing out May, and if you do that, his stats put him at about #2 right now.

I also concede that its fine to call BS on throwing out May, because its usually not a good idea to throw out bad starts in an argument because then the discussion can devolve and everyone can make every pitcher look good, but he got rocked three times, said his arm hurt, and was shut down for a month. After that, he looked good, and he had a good April, his stats are ugly because of May. Without that month, his ERA is close to 3.

His season, minus May. I ignored the rest of your hysteria because we're not on the same page so we have a misunderstanding, you are probably looking at his entire season.

If you don't want to remove May, then we're at an impasse because his full 2015 season is bad.

I'm going to hypothetically add Johnny Cueto to our team and take away Duffy and Finnegan.

We get the #1 seed and play Houston in round 1.

Our postseason pitchers look like this:

Game 1: Cueto
Game 2: Volquez
Game 3: Ventura
Game 4: Vargas/Young/Guthrie/Medlen
Game 5: Cueto

Bullpen: Holland, Davis, Herrera, Madson, Medlen, (Zimmer or Manaea), (Morales or starter)

I'm assuming we have 11 pitchers on our postseason roster.

OR

Game 1: Volquez
Game 2: Ventura
Game 3: Duffy (LOL)
Game 4: Vargas/Young/Guthrie/Medlen
Game 5: Volquez

Bullpen: Holland, Davis, Herrera, Madson, Medlen, (Finnegan, Zimmer, or Manaea), (Morales or starter)

Are you guys rat ****ing me right now? Do you really not see what Cueto adds to this team?

It's like adding an ace and losing NOTHING for a playoff run. NOTHING. Trading Duffy and acquiring Cueto is a win/win because GUTHRIE/VARGAS/YOUNG/MEDLEN are all either more effective than Danny Duffy, or just as effective.

All Danny Duffy has proven to me his entire career is he has a nasty ****ing fastball that he can't locate, and a decent secondary pitch that he can't locate, either.

If we go into the postseason with our starters looking like this:

1) Ventura
2) Duffy
3) Volquez
4) Guthrie/Vargas/Young

well, at least we'll always remember 2014

Let me just say it one more time :

Cueto is basically a 2009 Zack Greinke.

Anybody remember 2009 Zack Greinke?

Does anyone think we lose to SFG last year if we had 2009 Zack Greinke anchoring our rotation?

Well to be fair, I do think it makes the rotation stronger this year if we traded someone other than Duffy, like a package including Manaea or Zimmer. But then you're giving up a potential starter you have 6 years control over.

Cueto/Volquez/Ventura/Duffy could work out nicely, certainly tons of potential there. I'd agree with al. But you at that point you have made life more difficult long term, considering you only have Duffy two more years and now have one less guy to replace him.

Both of your scenarios are bad, and I reject them both. I don't like standing pat, and I don't like replacing Duffy. I do not accept that its impossible to acquire Cueto or someone similar without dealing Duffy. If they want Mondesi and/or one of our other coveted prospects, and there's no other way, so be it.

I don't think you REALLY need a lefty in your postseason rotation, and I see no issue with going something like :

Cueto
Volquez
Ventura
Medlen

If the Royals traded for Cueto at the expense of Duffy, Yordano Ventura replaces Danny as the Game 3 starter. Yes, I think that's an upgrade. Yes, I feel better about your chances to win Game 3 in a series with Ventura.

You improve the first guy you're throwing in a series (Cueto vs. Volquez)
You improve the second guy you're throwing in a series (Volquez vs. Ventura)
And improve the third guy you're throwing in a series.

It's all upside.

If the Royals stand pat, they might enter the 2015 postseason with a rotation that is downgraded from last year. Yes, the bullpen can cover innings, but you also aren't as likely to sweep the ALDS and ALCS, which increases their burden if you don't have some innings-chugging starters.

It's also possible Ventura and Duffy put it together and this isn't an issue. Time will tell.

The flip side to this is you only lose two years of Duffy. Next year we'll have Ventura, Volquez, Vargas and Medlen guaranteed for the rotation, Guthrie's option if we want to pick it up, with Lamb, Manaea and Zimmer knocking on the door.

It just depends on how much you value Duffy and how likely you think he'll re-sign if he becomes the pitcher we hope he does. The easiest answer is Duffy and Ventura have a strong second half and this isn't a problem. You usually have to develop a starter or two because they're so expensive.

What happened to Ventura's fastball? I don't think its a given that Ventura is better than Duffy.

You'd trade Mondesi over Duffy? Jesus man

If I can get Cueto for a painful package of prospects, I'd have to strongly consider doing it. Then we'd roll with

Cueto
Volquez
Duffy
whoever survives September