If that's the case, then they're just not interested in trading for Greinke.

Why trade a young, controllable power hitter for two years of a pitcher that isn't that much of an upgrade on what you already have?

If I'm the Jays, I keep Snider (or trade him in some massive deal for Justin Upton).

I'm not saying they should or shouldn't do it, but for all the reports that the Jays are interested, you have to assume Snider would be included. Oh, and saying it isn't much of an upgrade is laughable.

You are acting like 2 years ago was a fluke. If Zack Greinke is a 4 WAR pitcher, then you are right, but he's not, and the Royals/interested teams are not treating him like he is. Maybe a contending team shouldn't count on 9 WAR like 2 years ago, but its clear that Zack gets bored when he has nothing to play for.

2 years ago he was on fire, the royals fell out of contention so Greinke lost interest and piddled around, then near the end when it was clear he had a shot at Cy he was on fire again. Last year the Royals went straight down the chute and Zack piddled around all year for a merely "good" season, but when meaningful games did come around (TB at the end of the year) he turned it on again.

Greinke is an elite pitcher who needs something to play for, and there's no reason why we should have to settle for less than that kind of a haul. If no one wants to pay, then he's still ours until someone is desperate enough to pony up in July. (or we have a fluke good year and he wants to re-sign with us)

Why? He isn't a prospect in the way that these other names are. And he's worth a hell of a lot more than guys like Drabek, Arencibia, Perez, and Profar.


From a biased Royals' perspective, I can see how one would say that.

If you look at him, his 2009 season looks entirely like an outlier (2008-4.9 WAR, 2009-9.4 WAR, 2010-5.2 WAR). So we're looking at approximately a 5 WAR pitcher going forward. Very good, but not in the elite in the way that guys like Halladay, Felix, Lee, and Lincecum are.

Then if you compare him to the Jays pitchers:

2010 WAR:
Greinke-5.2 (in 220 IP)
Romero-4.0 (in 210 IP)
Morrow-3.7 (in 146 IP)

Put Romero and Morrow in an easier division like the AL Central against easier competition and the margin there becomes even less.

Would Greinke be your ace, yes or no? How many Cy Young's does the rest of your staff have? From a guy in his mid 20s who's been very durable? Nobody is saying he's Halladay, but on the other hand you're acting as if Snider is the premier OF prospect in baseball.

Additionally, the reason he would likely be included is that the Royals aren't settling for all prospects...they'll need at least one younger guy who is already MLB ready like Snider.

For all we know, his 2009 season was a fluke (or outlier, or however you want to term it). Nobody should be paying for that kind of production, because it isn't a reasonable expectation for what he's going to do going forward.

I don't buy that pitchers at the major league level can just turn on their games on and off simply at will. I'm surprised that you do. And in particular, I find it to be a very weak excuse for Greinke's "struggles" last year.

Sure, he would be the ace, but that's not particularly relevant to anything I've stated here. There is no reason to give up a controllable power hitter like Snider for 2 years of Zack Greinke, not when you already have one of the best young rotations in the game as it is.

Uh...Travis Snider was the premier OF prospect in baseball last season. A .770 OPS season over 300 AB hasn't changed that.

KC Connection is a good poster, but he's getting a little loopy with the Greinke stuff, especially if we're going to make positive comparisons to Morrow, who was, essentially, a first year starter.

I'm not going to try to ascribe a ceiling for this player, but it would be incredibly unlikely for him to be in Greinke territory.

The other important quality about Zack is that he has one of the most fluid, natural deliveries in all of baseball, which is extremely important if you're thinking about the long-term health of a significant investment.

The Royals hold all the cards here, and what the Jays could offer simply isn't enough. Pass.

Greinke is the very definition of "not most players". The dude almost quit baseball because he was unhappy with playing. He "struggled" as recently as a few years ago because he became so bored that he started playing around with funny pitches and speeds just to keep himself amused. He's said the most fun he's ever had playing baseball was competing for the Texas League championship in Wichita. The scouts all agree that he has elite stuff, he simply needs to have something to play for.

Oh, and put me down in the camp that does NOT think that Greinke would have problems playing in a large market.

Interesting and related report, Blue Jays reportedly trading Marcum to Brewers for prospects.

Yeah, you can't treat Greinke like a normal pitcher. Which may be a mark against him... but you almost have to experience him to understand how offbeat he can be.

Because I don't think Greinke is the same quality as Halladay, Felix, or Lee? I didn't think I was saying anything outrageous there. Greinke's numbers would also take a serious hit if he faced the Yankees, Red Sox, or Rays in half of his starts, which makes the comparison to Romero and Morrow viable.

If we're talking about Snider or even Drabek, I'd say their ceilings are around what Greinke is (5 WAR).

Fluid delivery or not, pitchers are pitchers. A vast majority of them are going to get hurt in time.

No doubt, but I see absolutely no justification for the Jays to include a player like Travis Snider in any deal for Greinke. The slight upgrade they'd get from him would be lost immediately from giving up 5 years of an above-average outfielder (and it would hurt even more if Snider reaches his ceiling).

Very strong rumors are popping up tonight that Toronto is trading away one of their better young pitchers (Shaun Marcum) to the Brewers for some prospects yet to be identified.

Perhaps this is a straight-up trade intended to improve the team in isolation from anything else, or perhaps they are amassing chips to pay us with.