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-   -   Misc Jerry Sandusky found GUILTY on 45 of 48 counts... (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=260754)

Brock 06-26-2012 10:16 PM

Yeah, teams are built like armies, except for the total freedom college athletes have to do whatever they want, if they screw up their teammates aren't going to die in a hail of bullets, they won't be sent to Leavenworth for disobeying orders, and they can quit whenever they want. But other than that, it's exactly the same.

stevieray 06-26-2012 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 8704055)
pressure, never, ever call all the shots, abuse.

pointing fingers horrified abuse power secrets consequences fear secrecy difficult.



ya, bet those raped boys never, ever felt like this.

-King- 06-26-2012 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 8704055)
They are close examples because teams are built like armies. There is a peer pressure to never, ever go above your coach and put yourself above your team. There is a ranking system where head coaches call all the shots, and everyone has to fall in line. And because of those things, there is tremendous potential for abuse.

Oh, you mean like every other company in the world? The CEO calls all the shots and everyone falls in line.

BigRock 06-26-2012 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 8704097)
I know a thing or two about unethical organizations and how good people are sucked into doing really bad things and are afraid to do anything about it.

What you don't have is the slightest bit of evidence that such a description applies to Mike McQueary. But no matter how many times this is brought to your attention, you dismiss it and continue to insist that your interpretation is correct.

Out of perverse curiosity, I have to ask: why is that?

-King- 06-26-2012 10:27 PM

If I didn't know any better I'd think Chiefzilla was trolling. Who the hell defends someone who turned a blind eye on CHILD RAPE?

chiefzilla1501 06-26-2012 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRock (Post 8704130)
What you don't have is the slightest bit of evidence that such a description applies to Mike McQueary. But no matter how many times this is brought to your attention, you dismiss it and continue to insist that your interpretation is correct.

Out of perverse curiosity, I have to ask: why is that?

Because you don't have evidence either, except for an interpretation of a rehearsed testimony. The defense came out and called him a liar based on his grand jury account. He's not going to go on the stand as some emotional witness who didn't get his facts straight.

It was stated by other people (not just McQueary) that McQueary was visibly upset whenever Sandusky showed up anywhere. Probably one of the few people that was, sadly. But more importantly, there is evidence all around us that high level administrators were covering this up like crazy. Fair speculation as to whether political power was used to sweep these incidents under the rug. More than fair question to ask... if this was a secret for 10 years and everyone knew about it, how does that happen? To me, nothing stays that secret unless everyone knows perfectly well that you do not open your mouth and yap.

You can draw your own conclusions. Me? I think it was pretty clear that a big time program like that doesn't survive if they aren't very, very good at keeping secrets and making damn sure employees keep their mouths shut.

-King- 06-26-2012 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 8704183)
Because you don't have evidence either, except for an interpretation of a rehearsed testimony. The defense came out and called him a liar based on his grand jury account. He's not going to go on the stand as some emotional witness who didn't get his facts straight.

It was stated by other people (not just McQueary) that McQueary was visibly upset whenever Sandusky showed up anywhere. Probably one of the few people that was, sadly. But more importantly, there is evidence all around us that high level administrators were covering this up like crazy. Fair speculation as to whether political power was used to sweep these incidents under the rug. More than fair question to ask... if this was a secret for 10 years and everyone knew about it, how does that happen? To me, nothing stays that secret unless everyone knows perfectly well that you do not open your mouth and yap.

You can draw your own conclusions. Me? I think it was pretty clear that a big time program like that doesn't survive if they aren't very, very good at keeping secrets and making damn sure employees keep their mouths shut.

NOTHING KEPT HIM FROM GOING TO THE POLICE!

Wtf part of that don't you understand?

chiefzilla1501 06-26-2012 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King- (Post 8704134)
If I didn't know any better I'd think Chiefzilla was trolling. Who the hell defends someone who turned a blind eye on CHILD RAPE?

Because I am a TON more angry at the scumbag administrators who covered it up, who had the POWER to do something and didn't, and created a culture that made it okay to sweep these kinds of atrocious acts under the rug.

And I have studied enough unethical organizations to know that the blame always, always starts from the top. It's their fault for creating a system and culture where this is considered okay.

BigRock 06-26-2012 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 8704183)
Because you don't have evidence either

This in no way answers my question.

To repeat: there is, and has never been, the slighest bit of evidence to suggest that Mike McQueary wanted to come forward more than he did, but was scared to do it. Yet you INSIST that's what happened.

Why?

Raiderhater 06-26-2012 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 8704183)
Because you don't have evidence either, except for an interpretation of a rehearsed testimony. The defense came out and called him a liar based on his grand jury account. He's not going to go on the stand as some emotional witness who didn't get his facts straight.

It was stated by other people (not just McQueary) that McQueary was visibly upset whenever Sandusky showed up anywhere. Probably one of the few people that was, sadly. But more importantly, there is evidence all around us that high level administrators were covering this up like crazy. Fair speculation as to whether political power was used to sweep these incidents under the rug. More than fair question to ask... if this was a secret for 10 years and everyone knew about it, how does that happen? To me, nothing stays that secret unless everyone knows perfectly well that you do not open your mouth and yap.

You can draw your own conclusions. Me? I think it was pretty clear that a big time program like that doesn't survive if they aren't very, very good at keeping secrets and making damn sure employees keep their mouths shut.

OK, let us take this point and delve a little deeper into it for a moment. McQueary didn't even like being around Sandusky. Why in God's most precious name did he continue to be employed at a place where he was constantly around? Why did he continue to be employed at a place where the superiors where actively covering these atrocities up? If it bothered him so much, why did he continue to stick around? At the very least, if he was indeed fearful for his job and family as you suggest, move away and then blow the whistle. But no, he did not that. He continued to stay in that den of evil. Which takes me back to my point I made earlier in the thread: he was less concerned with himself and more concerned about PSU, JUST LIKE HIS SUPERIORS. He was a member of the same sick cult that was running the show. Period. End of story.

Every last one those motherfuckers need to burn. Up to and including McQueary.

Raiderhater 06-26-2012 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 8704204)
Because I am a TON more angry at the scumbag administrators who covered it up, who had the POWER to do something and didn't, and created a culture that made it okay to sweep these kinds of atrocious acts under the rug.

And I have studied enough unethical organizations to know that the blame always, always starts from the top. It's their fault for creating a system and culture where this is considered okay.


This isn't some company covering up unethical financial dealings. This is an institution of higher learning covering up kiddie rape. If McQueary couldn't draw that distinction well, he is most certainly fucked in the head.

-King- 06-26-2012 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 8704204)
Because I am a TON more angry at the scumbag administrators who covered it up, who had the POWER to do something and didn't, and created a culture that made it okay to sweep these kinds of atrocious acts under the rug.

And I have studied enough unethical organizations to know that the blame always, always starts from the top. It's their fault for creating a system and culture where this is considered okay.

You still haven't answered what stopped McQueary from doing something? He's apart of that cover up also. If you're not telling the cops and proper authorities, you're covering it up also. He had power to do something about it. He didn't. He's a ****ing pussy.

And shut the **** up. Anyone that knew about this and didn't do anything about it is to blame. It doesn't matter if they're the University president, or the towel boy. McQueary knew about it and let it happen for years. He's a piece of shit no matter what the Penn State culture was/is.

chiefzilla1501 06-26-2012 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRock (Post 8704208)
This in no way answers my question.

To repeat: there is, and has never been, the slighest bit of evidence to suggest that Mike McQueary wanted to come forward more than he did, but was scared to do it. Yet you INSIST that's what happened.

Why?

Because making that statement doesn't just implicate Penn State, it completely drowns them. He clearly loves Penn State. What is his incentive for saying they intimidated him to keep quiet? That makes Penn State look really bad. His not saying it doesn't mean it isn't true.

He has expressed regret for how he acted in the locker room that night, so I disagree that he never indicated he wishes he had done more. As for intimidation... you do the math. This thing stayed secret for 10 years. That doesn't happen unless people know there are consequences for tattling. The administrators were very active in covering this up, which means they probably took other steps to make sure bad info didn't leak out.

You can draw your own conclusions. We don't know if McQueary was intimidated and we never will. What we do know is that based on the behavior of Spaniers, Joe Pa, and Curley, there is more than an educated guess that they built an environment that did not encourage whistle blowing.

chiefzilla1501 06-26-2012 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King- (Post 8704235)
You still haven't answered what stopped McQueary from doing something? He's apart of that cover up also. If you're not telling the cops and proper authorities, you're covering it up also. He had power to do something about it. He didn't. He's a ****ing pussy.

And shut the **** up. Anyone that knew about this and didn't do anything about it is to blame. It doesn't matter if they're the University president, or the towel boy. McQueary knew about it and let it happen for years. He's a piece of shit no matter what the Penn State culture was/is.

I've answered the question all thread long. Because he is a whistle blower in a culture that covers shit up and almost certainly has a clear way of making sure people keep their mouth shut to make sure their tracks stay covered. Because turning in a high ranking boss is a much harder job than people claim it is on the sidelines. Because whistle blowing situations happen very frequently, and most people make bad situations when in those situations.

-King- 06-27-2012 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 8704272)
I've answered the question all thread long. Because he is a whistle blower in a culture that covers shit up and almost certainly has a clear way of making sure people keep their mouth shut to make sure their tracks stay covered. Because turning in a high ranking boss is a much harder job than people claim it is on the sidelines. Because whistle blowing situations happen very frequently, and most people make bad situations when in those situations.

People would forgive him for telling the cops about CHILD RAPE!


And even if he got fired for it, he could sue Penn State for wrongful termination. And could you imagine the field day the media would have if Penn State actually did fire him for turning a CHILD RAPIST?

Sorry, you are full of bullshit. NOTHING bad would have happened if he turned in the child rapist. Hell, he'd be thought of as a hero.

Seriously, what bad thing could have happened to him if he had done what any other rational person in the world would have done and told proper authorities?


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