In a nutshell:

Here is the conclusion of the report:



I think fourth graders wrote this report.

If Martin actually made those comments, it looks bad on the Dolphins either way. Either they knew and ignored it and actually encouraged toughening him hp, or they didn't know when they should have or when somebody should have spoken up.

This thing looks like a bigger joke than the Mitchell Report.

Think it's enough for Martin to get what he wants and sue the Dolphins?

I don't know that that's a fair standard. Plenty of employers don't know if an employee is suicidal.

Incognito's done in the NFL

Chiefs could use him.

I don't consider myself a bleeding heart whatever you want to call it, but IMO no team needs that type of personality in the locker room.

Hate to break it to you (and not saying it's a good thing either), but his type of personality isn't exactly uncommon in the NFL.

POS

fa·ce·tious adjective \fə-ˈsē-shəs\
—used to describe speech that is meant to be funny but that is usually regarded as annoying, silly, or not proper

Briefly read through the report, and I agree that it's pretty classic bullying. I also read all the text exchanges between Incognito and Martin a while back. Even then, I'd say it was bullying. Was Martin partially to blame? Hell yeah, he was... but that's VERY OFTEN the case with "bullying." It's a pretty common occurrence that the bullies don't realize the level of hurt/harm they're inflicting on the "victim," often thinking that it's just in good fun.

It's a really, really hard to define line. As someone who works with teenage boys in an environment where I can be help legally at fault for allowing bullying to take place, I constantly have to deal with this. With boys, especially, it's hard for me to tell when they're just giving each other shit and when it's become mean spirited and hurtful toward one of the parties. The kid being "bullied" usually seems to be playing along and even enjoying the exchange on the surface.

If bullying was always obvious and easy to see, then it wouldn't be nearly as common, because everyone would recognize it as aberrant behavior. It's usually much, much more subtle and hard to define than we envision.

In your extensive knowledge of the inner workings of NFL locker rooms, have you noticed it to be common for white players to call black players ****er in a demeaning tone? What about calling another player's sister a squirter while mocking having sex with her?

Off color jokes are fine in a locker room setting, but a lot of what I've read so far in this report is taking it too far. The fact that Incognito and the others only acted this way to people they knew wouldn't react violently, just makes them bigger pieces of shit.

so in summary, the NFL knew nothing about this. The NFL team and the NFL management of that team knew nothing about this. It is all on the player. nobody affiliated in any way with the NFL management or any NFL team has any responsibility at all. That was a good thorough report by the NFL management team.

It's exactly the kind of casual racism and homophobia that makes anonymous GMs say guys like Michael Sam can't play in the NFL due to its macho culture, yes. I still haven't seen anything that would make me believe Incognito or the Dolphins are some kind of great exception in this regard.


Where exactly do you draw that line? How much casual racism and homophobia in these jokes is acceptable?

IMO, racism is never casual and homophobia one of the biggest wastes if energy there is. So my answer is that neither is ever acceptable.

If that's the case (and like you, I find the fact that such things are embedded in NFL culture disgusting), you're going to have to start kicking out way more in this league than just Richie Incognito.

Poor Richie

I'm cool with that. Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go start an Internet rumor that Peyton Manning is a racist homophobe.

He'll not make it anyway. His bulling texts will be used against him by someone who's been bullied before. He will be someone's sweet revenge

Thank god Mrs Buehler445 and I aren't the only ones that engage in playful banter back and forth. I was starting to worry. I think it's funnier than hell when she fires both barrels. I'm like you though, it's all in fun. When it's time to be serious we're serious.

You really think if he's on with another team he's going to say those type things ever again?

Incognito will be used as an example and a scapegoat. That was plain to see in how Wells framed his words. Incognito was supposed to know that his words were hurtful even though Martin was firing back, because telepathy. Martin, though, was not supposed to know that firing back would lead the other person to think there was actual banter going on, because feelbad.

So Incognito will be the whipping boy, Martin will be the Martyr, the Dolphins and the league will have their hall pass, and Goodell will have his hammer for use against the players. :thumb:

I won't matter. What he said and texted is out there for all the players to see. I'm sure all the black NFL players are going to be OK with him calling Martin a ****er. He is done in the league.

In the modern era, though, I think that some racist and homophobic comments are not really made to be racist or homophobic, but rather because the offender likes the shock value of talking about something that is not supposed to be talked about.

Do we really think that Richie Incognito hates black people? Or is it just a way to be "cutting edge" and show how tough and confident you are that you can make jokes about off-limits stuff? I could see either or both being correct, but I'd probably lay more money on the second explanation as the main catalyst.

And everyone in power positions will live happily ever after.

Joe Posnanski ‏@JPosnanski 3m
That Richie Incognito thought this report would exonerate him, knowing what he admitted to, is the new definition of insanity.

Exactly this, not that it excuses it. My friends and I also do stuff like this being ironic/sarcastic. Like, we'll almost adopt personas when we're ****ing with each other and we're simultaneously making fun of each other and making fun of the "persona" that we're adopting to do the hazing.

I just perused the texts between the two. Sounds like juvenile banter to me.

Bingo. And that's why I don't think Incognito is in any way uncommon in this culture.

Sure will. Lets make sure if we start kicking people out that everyone is included in the process. Nobody should be allowed a free pass because of some lame definition that minorities, by definition, cant initiate racist behavior or that using certain racial slurs is acceptable because its an accepted part of a culture. The league is 70% African American and I'm sure they say the same stupid shit. If you really want to stop it, everyone needs to stop partaking in it. Just my take...

It doesn't matter if he is a card carrying member of the KKK and attends Westboro Baptist Church or if he's just trying to be "cutting edge". Either way, he is responsible for the way he chooses to communicate with people and he will have to face the consequences of people's reactions to his words.

It's almost as if racist and homophobic comments are satire now. Unless of course the person saying them is wearing a white hood.

I have no doubt that racism still exists and that some people make racist comments with sincerity. But I suspect that those comments are not made directly to the people they're talking about.

This is supposed to be a smoking gun, and the thing Martin was most offended by, according to the report, was the jokes about his sister (bad words will be left out due to board rules, not as an attempt to sugarcoat:

Other sister jokes were listed, but we're supposed to believe that Martin was devastated by those jokes.

I'm not saying it's a good idea by any means. But I suspect that the motive is not revealed by the words themselves.

Rep! Exactly.
Lost in all this is Incognito CAN actually play and Martin CANT...The latter has a lot to do with what happened.

Pretty disingenuous of you to post the two tamest examples.

What the **** are you talking about? He listed 4 examples in the paragraph I was quoting from. I pointed to two of them that would require actual knowledge of a person Incognito had never met, while making the specific point that those jokes would require actual knowledge of a person Incognito had never met. There's nothing disingenuous about that.

And I'm pretty sure that at least some people would think that being told their sister was going to have a train run on her was less tame than being told that someone heard she had a fat, hairy kitty.

If Wells ever shows up to a get together of one of several groups of friends I have, we're all going to end up in his next report.

It just reads like crap that two junior high kids might send to each other. I doubt that an NFL locker room is usually a bastion of maturity.

So Martin doesn't say anything, but Incognito's an asshole for not being able to read Martin's mind. Hey, at least the poor black victim, who was getting razzed by blacks and whites alike, got to blame being a pussy on his attendance at a white private school. :thumb:

I went to private schooling with whites and I am white and I wouldn't put up with that bull$#it.

He's just a pu$$y.

It doesn't make what happened to him right but I feel no sympathy when you just sit there and take it...

The line is drawn when and where you quit finding the jokes acceptable...

Apparently the team didn't know Martin had problems. I find that hard to believe, but think that will be hard to prove otherwise. But they sure encouraged bullying. It's why I don't know what to think of incognito. He strikes me as a typical meathead, but it also sounds like he was practically encouraged to do it.

"I miss us"

"the guys miss you"

"U ok bro"


Considering who I got these from. They could mean a whole lot of different things. It many not be wise to chose a side for weeks LMAO

Edit: Okay that should be: Depending on who I got these(texts) from. They could mean a whole lot of different things.

I have grave doubts about Incognito being a "bully" at this point, but even if he is... if the Eagles can forgive Riley Cooper, then RI is far from done in the NFL.

Unlike most of us, Martin can't just pickup and change jobs. He can't say, I'm over Miami, I want to go play with KC.

If he didn't like what was happening and it became clear that if he did report the abuse, he would have been made even more of a pariah, then his actions are completely justified.

People want to say, "Oh, he's being a bitch," which I can't exactly argue, but nobody is offering up what he should have done instead.

Riley Cooper had one drunken incident outside of football that he stood up in front of his teammates and apologized for. Incognito, according to this report, had several incidents that were directed at a teammate that he has refused to even recognize as improper. Not quite the same thing.

Interestingly, Incognito is taking all of the heat. I think it is because he is white.

The other 2 parties found to be guilty of the same things in the report, not white but you're not hearing much about them.

Skimming the text messages doesn't give the full story. The full report is very well written and was the product of very thorough work (over 100 interviews of every single Dolphin there was, from owner to assistant trainer). They also bullied others in addition to Martin.

Let me just excerpt a few highlights. NSFW!

When we interviewed him, Martin said he was most offended by persistent vulgar references to members of his family, with whom he is close. According to Martin, these were not harmless one-off “yo mama” jokes, but cutting comments delivered with the intention to demean. The evidence supports a finding that Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey repeatedly and persistently made graphic, sexually explicit comments about Martin’s sister, a medical student whom they had never met. Four fairly typical examples
of the types of insults made orally, according to Martin, are:
 We are going to run train on your sister. She loves me. I’m going to **** her without a condom and cum in her ****.
 Hey, Jmart’s sister is in town. Get the plastic sheets ready, she’s a squirter.
 I’m going to bang the shit out of her and spit on her and treat her like shit.
 Hear your sister has a wolf-puss. A fat, hairy pussy



In the 2013 season, Incognito began openly, at various times, to refer to Martin in the locker room and on the practice field as “my bitch” or the “O-line’s bitch.” Martin was insulted to be called another player’s bitch, and he believed that Incognito was invoking terminology commonly used in prisons to refer to an inmate who is under the control and protection of a dominant inmate. In one instance, Martin claimed Incognito came to his defense in a fight with a defensive lineman in a scrimmage, but then immediately following the altercation began to say to Martin in a demeaning tone, both on the field and in the locker room, in the presence of other teammates, “you’re my
bitch.”

The “you’re my bitch” comments added to name-calling that had begun in 2012, Martin’s rookie season, when Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey began regularly calling Martin a “****,” a “bitch,” a “pussy” and a “pillowbitergot.” Martin was not surprised to hear these words used by football players, but believed they were frequently hurled at him with demeaning intent. The evidence shows that these words—at least at times—were
spoken to Martin in a cutting tone or with the intent to humiliate him. According to Martin, these types of taunts were a routine part of his life with the Dolphins. For the most part, Incognito does not dispute saying or writing any of the statements that Martin claimed offended him. Further, Incognito admitted that at times the very purpose of the verbal taunts was to “get under the skin” of another person. From Incognito’s perspective, however, the statements in question were an accepted part of the everyday camaraderie of the Dolphins tight-knit offensive line. Incognito told us that Martin (and other offensive linemen) all recognized, accepted and, indeed, actively
participated in “go-for-the-jugular” teasing, and that vulgarity and graphic sexual comments were not only a staple of their locker-room culture but also helped them bond. In contrast, Jerry downplayed his role in making vulgar comments about Martin’s family, and Pouncey denied making or hearing any such remarks. We do not find Jerry and Pouncey credible on these points, largely because both Martin and Incognito, plus other witnesses, agree that these words were in fact said to Martin.




Martin was not the only one subjected to hurtful treatment. Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey routinely mocked and demeaned other Dolphins players and personnel.

Player A

Player A was a Dolphins offensive lineman. Like Martin, he is quiet and unassuming. During his time with the team, Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey frequently taunted Player A with homophobic insults. He often was called a “pillowbiter” or a “pillowbitergot” in a demeaning tone. Incognito reportedly accused him of “sucking dick” and “pissing while sitting down” and asked him “where’s your boyfriend?” Incognito acknowledged that
Player A, although not actually believed to be gay, was spoken to in this manner repeatedly and persistently—he got it “every day from everybody, high frequency.”




We found that the Assistant Trainer, who was born in Japan, was the target of frequent and persistent harassment, including insults relating to his race and national origin. Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey admitted that they directed racially derogatory words toward him, including “Jap” and “Chinaman.” At times, according to Martin, they referred to the Assistant Trainer as a “dirty communist” or a “North Korean,” made demands such as “give me some water you ****ing chink,” spoke to him in a phony, mocking Asian accent, including asking for “rubby rubby sucky sucky,” and called his mother a “rub and tug masseuse.” Martin and others informed us that
Incognito and Jerry taunted the Assistant Trainer with jokes about having sex with his girlfriend. Incognito admitted that these types of comments were made to the Assistant Trainer. On December 7, 2012, the anniversary of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey donned traditional Japanese headbands that featured a rising sun emblem (which the Assistant Trainer had given them) and jokingly threatened to harm the Assistant Trainer physically in retaliation for the Pearl Harbor attack. According to Martin, the Assistant Trainer confided in him that he was upset about the Pearl Harbor comments, finding them derogatory toward his heritage.

Did Martin ever tell Incognito that what he was doing was demeaning and hoped it would stop?

Kind of curious about the origin of this meme.

I've noticed Hardwick using it on @midnight.

'This is crazy, because internet!!'

'Awww so sad, because emotion.'

Do you remember where you came across it first?

Did you ever tell the lad that took your lunch money to stop? Or did you keep giving it to him.

That never happened to me.

I was taken by the last sentence of what Amno posted above:

According to Martin, the Assistant Trainer confided in him that he was upset about the Pearl Harbor comments, finding them derogatory toward his heritage.

Did you ever tell your dad to stop putting his penis in your ass before sleepy time? I didn't think so.




The very nature of Bullying deters the victim from ever telling anyone or saying 'stop'

See above.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/report-...0378--nfl.html

It is hard to say the Dolphins didn't know what was going on.

I'm betting that before its all said and done RI will issue a public/team apology, he's already partially apologized for the way he spoke of women.

He'll be starting somewhere in 2014, I'd bet on it.

-If that don't get you fired. Maybe even blackballed, there is no hope

If shooting/murder/dog fighting etc don't keep a player out of the league then i doubt this will.

but ...... Incognito needs to shut the **** up.

Teams might avoid him because he seems like such a complete idiot.

Exactly, its not like he's gonna do prison time... and yes, he definitely needs to shut his yap, cant believe his agent and lawyer didn't keep him from the latest twitter outburst.

Incognito agrees. So the fact that Martin's not as mentally tough, as emotionally strong, as you makes him a BETTER target for bullying than you, but it means he gets no sympathy from you, because you think he's a pussy. That makes PERFECT sense. Brilliant!

So, Incognito's the real victim here because he's white and Jonathan Martin is a pussy for not standing up to him.

Chiefsplanet...

Nope, not as such. Instead Martin seemed to try to befriend Incognito.

I imagine everyone told him to shut up, he just wouldn't or couldn't.

If Incognito had just kept his mouth shut and then said he was sorry, he would have had a starting job next season. Now i'm not sure teams will trust him.

So over this dolphin drama. I have heard worse stuff on an average day reading Chiefs Planet.

Yup. I can't believe people see the report, and STILL side with Incognito chalking it up to "that's the way it is in NFL" and think it's acceptable.

do you think a team takes a chance on Ritchie and signs him?

Jonathan Martin wouldn't last long on ChiefsPlanet.

Sorry, I hadn't read further down into the report. A little further review turns this up.

I don't think it's acceptable, but I do think that Martin seems to have over-reacted to Icognito's stupid behavior.

I wonder if Incognito stopped teasing the trainer after being told to stop.

Sure. I mean all those great quotes about women won't turn off the owner's wife, the GM's wife, the HC's wife, the team's female fans, etc.

And I mean he's a powerhouse. Greatest guard ever. He's THE difference-maker to any NFL team.

Incognito's career is dead. He's poison. Why would any team risk the focus and derision picking him would bring?

Martin should have punched him in the mouth over the sister comments. The trouble here for me is the asst. coach. He's not Incogito's employee equal, that is a whole new area of wrong

If Cooper can threaten to "fight every ****er here" and Vick can go to prison, I don't see why someone wouldn't.

He did overreact. But the same reason he over-reacted is what made Incognito pick him out for especially over-the-top bullying.

You think anybody tells Ray Lewis / Ndamukung Suh / etc. the stuff they were saying to Martin? Of course not. Those guys would bash your face into a sink until you had no teeth left and then start the beating. But Martin WAS a pussy, by NFL-locker room standards, and he wasn't mentally equipped to take it (obviously).

But that doesn't excuse Incognito in any way. He's obviously a turd of a human being, and deserves what he got, and to have his career end in ignominy.

Turner should be out of football, I agree.

I don't disagree. He seems like an immature, juvenile thug.

It isn't acceptable, but it sounds like the guy didn't have the mental and physical toughness to deal with playing in the nfl. If he's intimidated by neanderthals in his own locker room how's he supposed to deal with Terrell Suggs on Sunday?

if you had to go to work/school EVERY day knowing that you would be scared all day and have to deal with bullying shit, you might think different.

I imagine it built up over time.

a single drop is no big deal, a 1000 single drops is chinese water torture

In read each of the 144 pages in the report.

Incognito, Jerry, and Pouncey are certainly not absolved of any wrong doing as the released text messages might make us believe.

Perhaps, I wouldn't know.

But, I do find it a little comical that a guy who pushed people around as his profession didn't chose to push back more forcefully. There are always going to be assholes. How you deal with them is up to you.