Donovan's a guy you want to put in that GIANT outfield in Colorado or even Kansas City and watch him hit .360 and be among the league leaders in doubles.

I'm not sure the short porch in NY helps him as much as more grass to hit into would.

Guy's just a throwback hitter.

Maybe im simple, but this team IS getting older in its star power... why would you want to trade off one of the couple good players you've been able to develop in Brendan Donovan?

Probably an easy pass from the other side, at least in terms of 1 for 1. There's probably at least a 45 FV prospect or 2 difference in value there. Manoah has more control, pre-arb, is a pitcher, and 1 year removed from 4 fWAR. Carlson is 4 seasons removed from being anything but a JAG.

Before signing Willson Contreras last winter, the Cardinals were known to be considering catching options on the trade market, which included talks with the Blue Jays about their then-surplus of Gabriel Moreno (who was eventually dealt to the Diamondbacks, Alejandro Kirk, and Danny Jansen. Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch shed some light on those past talks between the Jays and Cards, writing that Toronto had interest in Lars Nootbaar and Brendan Donovan.

With Goold also reporting earlier this week that Dylan Carlson was on the Jays’ radar this winter, there’s plenty of reason to think that Toronto and St. Louis could line up on some sort of trade this winter. Nootbaar could slide perfectly into the Blue Jays’ left field vacancy, while Donovan’s ability to play almost any position would give Toronto lots of flexibility in figuring out how it wants to address its many needs around the diamond. Of course, several teams have also made calls about Nootbaar, Donovan, and Carlson, and it remains to be seen if the Jays could outbid the field, if the Jays have the available pitching that the Cardinals are badly seeking this offseason, or even if St. Louis dealt any of these particular players whatsoever.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/...son-judge.html

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sources: Braves and Cardinals among teams showing early interest in free agent RHP Aaron Nola. <a href="https://twitter.com/MLB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MLB</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/MLBNetwork?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MLBNetwork</a></p>&mdash; Jon Morosi (@jonmorosi) <a href="https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/1724181871871856808?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 13, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Transaction! Intrigue! ..And thus continues the quest to gain the rights of Rule 5 pick RHP Wilking Rodriguez. He has cleared waivers, been offered back to Yankees, they have declined, so <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/stlcards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#stlcards</a> make this move.<br><br>Next step is Rodriguez’s, who can choose to stay with <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cardinals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cardinals</a>. <a href="https://t.co/p0BIiXRW3Q">pic.twitter.com/p0BIiXRW3Q</a></p>&mdash; Derrick Goold (@dgoold) <a href="https://twitter.com/dgoold/status/1724202407393992908?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 13, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Transaction! Intrigue! ..And thus continues the quest to gain the rights of Rule 5 pick RHP Wilking Rodriguez. He has cleared waivers, been offered back to Yankees, they have declined, so <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/stlcards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#stlcards</a> make this move.<br><br>Next step is Rodriguez’s, who can choose to stay with <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cardinals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cardinals</a>. <a href="https://t.co/p0BIiXRW3Q">pic.twitter.com/p0BIiXRW3Q</a></p>&mdash; Derrick Goold (@dgoold) <a href="https://twitter.com/dgoold/status/1724202407393992908?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 13, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Brewers are naming Pat Murphy their new manager, per <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Ken_Rosenthal</a> <br><br>Murphy has been the Brewers bench coach since 2015 <a href="https://t.co/poU6YtHSMp">pic.twitter.com/poU6YtHSMp</a></p>&mdash; Talkin’ Baseball (@TalkinBaseball_) <a href="https://twitter.com/TalkinBaseball_/status/1724268419111850475?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 14, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Honestly don't give a **** till Mo is gone

Awesome, a 33 year old reliever who has literally pitched 2 major league innings in 2014. These are the moves that make champions.

You realize the Cardinals released him, right? The Yankees didn't want him back so it's up to the player if he wants to stay with the Cardinals. Considering the Cardinals released him, I doubt they care what he does.

Congratulations to Skip.

Oli probably wont be winning MOTY any time soon

I think the Cardinals will trade for Tyler Glasnow. That seems to be their style. Trade for Glasnow and sign a second tier starter.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We have non-tendered the following players:<br><br>RHP Dakota Hudson<br>RHP Jake Woodford<br>C Andrew Knizner<br>1B/OF Juan Yepez<br><br>Our 40-player roster now stands at 36.</p>&mdash; St. Louis Cardinals (@Cardinals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Cardinals/status/1725681967306289290?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 18, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I heard these dipshits were actively shopping Hudson. What kind of return to you expect to get from a pitcher you want to trade when you make it known you are desperate for at least 2 starters in FA?

Waiting for Yepez to put up a .280/.370/.530 OPS with his next team.

Pujols said he’s the next Pujols. :hmmm:P

We've had half a dozen "next Pujols" before him

Cards sign Lance Lynn to one year deal with club option.

Damn, would have been psyched about 8 years ago

Jesus ****ing Christ, he was cooked last year. Mo is worthless.

Lynn as a fourth or fifth starter isn't that bad. He can at least give you some innings.

Have to find a way to continue the tradition of final year Cardinals.

Had some solid underlying numbers but HR luck murdered him. Busch reduces homers so that'll help.

I don't think he's cooked - but league average 4th/5th starter is all you're wise to expect from him. $10 million on a 1-yr deal is about what those cost.

The problem is that if DeWitt is going to hold the line on payroll, that's gonna be about 1/4 of the free capital that we have.

There's really no such thing as a bad 1-year deal and I'd be surprised if he couldn't pitch to 2 WAR or so next year. Somewhere between the guy that missed bats in Chicago but got blown up otherwise and the guy that managed to get outs without striking anyone out in LA is the real Lynn. And I think that's probably a tolerably mediocre high 4s pitcher who should be able to bank 160-180 innings.

I mean for the first 300 starts of his career Lynn was a guy who gave up a homer every 10 innings; a pretty solid HR rate. Then suddenly he gave up a homer every FOUR last season and that's just loony tunes. I mean your HR/FB rate doesn't typically double while your K rate stays stable. His FB rate was up a little so it suggests that the pitches aren't quite what they were, but I think he's quite a bit better than he was for most of last season.

If we sign Yamamoto (and get a real CFer) then I think this is a solid move for competition at the back of the rotation. If we sign Sonny Gray and roll with that as our big off-season moves then that's just business as usual.

"Buy your Lance Lynn 35 game season ticket packages now!!!"

The Yepez thing is odd. Guy had an option year left; made the league minimum. What's the upshot in DFA'ing him?

Oh thats right - 'logjam'

Well, look at the heat map of the only pitches he can mildly control and throws 80% of the time. Might as well put the ball on a tee. He was league average to one of the worst pitchers in baseball in every measure. I dont know if there was some kind of related injury, but there's really nothing to hang your hat on and say there's something to work with there.

It'll be worth it when he puts Marmol on blast for entertainment value alone...

Keep the reunion coming...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Other <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> news:<br><br>The Cardinals have hired former infielder Daniel Descalso to be on the team&#39;s 2024 coaching staff, per multiple sources. St. Louis is still finalizing their staff and while Descalso does not yet have an official title, he will be on the major-league staff.</p>&mdash; Katie Woo (@katiejwoo) <a href="https://twitter.com/katiejwoo/status/1726661604652339306?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 20, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

He will definitely not keep his mouth shut.

They're pimping that nostalgia angle hard. I suppose Bo Hart and David Eckstein said "no".

There is still a lot of value for a guy who can still give you 6 innings every 5 days even if he gives up homers.

Don’t hate the Lynn signing, but if they don’t sign Yamamoto or 2 other SP, as well as a starting caliber OF, then its underwhelming as hell.

if he’s seen as a #4/#5 starter that’s fine and dandy.

Mike Shildt is set to take over the Padres. They got a good one.

Unbelievable that the ego of the GM needed a yes man instead of either Shildt or Schumaker.

BRB dropping a band on the Padres to win the NL next year

Cardinals just signed Kyle Gibson to a one year deal. Another innings eater

Mikolas, Matz, Lynn, Gibson

What a rotation. Who are they gonna fill out for the """ace"""?

Sonny Gray, COME ON DOWN!!!

Well, it was fun talking Cardinals with you all for the last almost 20 years, but I think I'll be taking a break from this bull**** for a while.

Admittedly I don’t know much about Gibson other than he is a band-aid at this point. Another 4 or 5 option like Lynn?

Yeah - Lynn was a back of the rotation piece that on his face does no damage. Gibson, OTOH, is a trend.

It's now clear what they're going to do. "At least two starters" has been handled. And frankly, it's PREFERABLE to a lot of alternatives (i.e. giving Snell $28 million/season for 6 seasons to save his job while hamstringing his replacements).

These are 1-off guys who are likely to be gone by the time Mozeliak is replaced. They can absorb some bullets from the young arms. When it turns out that Graceffo/Hjerpe/McGreavy and the whole slew of mid/back of the rotation arms we've assembled in our system prove to be about as capable as Matz/Lynn/Gibson by 2025, at least you don't have many resources tied up in redundant arms and new leadership could potentially make something of the freed up resources.

And maybe by then one of the Hence/Roby higher upside arms can step in as a legit 2/3. Maybe Davis or Scott are looking like real OF options. Maybe Saggese has put himself in as a fixture at 2b that allows you to move Gorman over to 3b or full time DH and get leaner/younger still.

At least this demonstrates that MAYBE they understand that there's no 1 year path back to relevance and that we're looking at 3 years here.

Because there's something fairly scary about them signing a 31 yr old 'top of the rotation' arm for 6 years and pretending like that actually makes us matter.

That said - yes, I'll be rooting for the Padres to absolutely fist-**** this team every time we play them. I have a definitive rooting interest in the NL this year.

Former Mizzou Tiger; I saw him pitch a bit in college and thought he might make the show someday but never saw a ton that amazed me.

Apart from that? Just a bullet catcher. A lower variance Lynn. Not likely to be as bad as Lynn could be but also doesn't have the potential to be as good as Lynn could be if he can fix the HR issues.

I wouldn't say he's a league average starting pitcher but he is major league caliber; back end of the rotation type who will absorb innings in a workmanlike and in no fashion impressive manner. I'd put my expectations for him as a little better than Lynn (4.8ish for Lynn; maybe a 4.6ish for Gibson) but their jobs is mostly going to be to pitch 350+ innings at a roughly big league level.

Look at it this way - you had Wainwright, Rom and Woodford give you 37 starts last year with an ERA of 7.2. That's not a misprint, fellas - 37 starts with an ERA north of 7. Lets add Dakota Hudson and Liberatore to it and now you're at 60 starts with an ERA of 6.5.

Lynn and Gibson last year combined for 65 starts and an ERA of about 5.2. Getting to a park in STL that suppresses power output a bit should help them both so I think you could sneak that down a little. In either event, you're talking about 40% of your starts being a full run to a run and a half better per game.

Getting to merely replacement level is such a MASSIVE step up from the shit they ran out there last year that it's sadly a significant difference.

Trading Mikolas for Gerrit Cole would have about the same impact as trading that pile of shit for the pile of lesser shit. THAT'S how bad the back of this rotation was. And really a hell of a statement as to the state of the St. Louis Cardinals.

3 years you say? Well...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="zxx" dir="ltr"><a href="https://t.co/T1TiQNrqMj">https://t.co/T1TiQNrqMj</a> <a href="https://t.co/YBJgMB6GbP">pic.twitter.com/YBJgMB6GbP</a></p>&mdash; Craig Goldstein (@cdgoldstein) <a href="https://twitter.com/cdgoldstein/status/1727054248737955910?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 21, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Hopefully in 3 years you see the same success.

Is this any fun for you when we hate our team more than you do?

This entire division is afraid of losing in the WS, so they just dont try to get there.

It's all, every bit of it, funny.

The Cubs are the 4th largest market in the sport and their record contract is Jason Heyward.

The Cardinals have been selling nostalgia over wins for a decade.

The Brewers have a good team and decide to sell players at the deadline like Josh Hader and throw their ace pitcher under the bus in preseason.

It's impossible to not ****ing laugh at the NLC. The whole division is perfect for each other. If just 1 team would actively try to be great then the rest of the teams would be pressured into trying, but none of them want to be great. It's a Benny Hill marathon.

Jordan Lyles for Tyler O'Neil. Let's get it done Mo

No shit. No Cardinals fans ever comes in here and say anything positive. We trash the management of this team 24/7.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Nearly Half The League Has Reached Out To Yoshinobu Yamamoto <a href="https://t.co/TbdAlf6FHl">https://t.co/TbdAlf6FHl</a> <a href="https://t.co/zKNjYfDA5x">pic.twitter.com/zKNjYfDA5x</a></p>&mdash; MLB Trade Rumors (@mlbtraderumors) <a href="https://twitter.com/mlbtraderumors/status/1727390250895286733?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 22, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/3Z1fJKVyqPXbHacR0O" width="480" height="270" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/reaction-3Z1fJKVyqPXbHacR0O">via GIPHY</a></p>

Talking about a FA pitcher at 25 years old that gets better grades than Tanaka when he came over. He's a potential TOR, prime age, and you are going to get him for 100-150 million dollars less than market because he hasnt thrown a pitch in MLB. All 30 teams should be in on that.

I don't know if him not pitching in the majors is a big deal when Kodai Senga was lights out and had a Cy Young contender season as a rookie. The evaluators say he's better than Senga.

The posting fee impacts his value more than anything. But everyone thinks he's going to take home $200 million not including the posting fee.

What's remarkable is you never see an ace in MLB hit the open market at age 25.

But we have Nootbar doing the personal work on recruiting.:)

Lets assume that he gets $250M, the posting fee, assuming I have this correct, will be $30M. If he was a true ace in MLB at 25 years old he would be getting WAY more than $280M.

The biggest impact on his value is far and away the fact that he hasnt pitched in MLB. The season is longer, the breaks between starts is shorter, and the competition is better. NPB is about equivalent to AAA. If you want to look at Senga, then take a look. He didn't even have a posting fee and he signed for 5/75. He just pitched better than Aaron Nola at basically the same age and Nola got 7/172. But, just because Senga had success at MLB pace, doesn't mean Yamamoto will. The same way prospects on equal level dont have the same success, or a lower tier prospect like Nootbaar runs ****ing circles around Walker in every aspect of the game.

$280 million would still be the second-highest total value contract for a pitcher in the history of baseball with only Gerrit Cole getting more ($324 million). Stephen Strasburg is currently second at $245 million, so it would dwarf him.

Japanese pitchers have a great track record of working out; Japanese hitters is another issue. I think you're overemphasizing the Japan aspect. There's other factors involved here too, like workload. Yamamoto threw 138 pitches in his last start. He's also like 5-foot-10, while Cole is the prototype size for a horse's ace.

Like Daisuke Matsuzaka, Kei Igawa, Hideki Irabu, and countless others that have tried. If you want to make believe that a pitcher in a AAA league doesnt have any major effect on his first MLB contract, then you do you.

Gerrit Cole signed his contract at 4 years older and it still has a decent chance (practically a slam dunk to happen) of seeing another full years salary tacked on to the deal, now add another 4.

Daisuke, Igawa and Irabu is the list. They're aren't countless others. The track record has been impressive since Hideo Nomo's debut in 1995.

Daisuke proved he could pitch in the majors. He had a 160 ERA+ and was fourth in the AL Cy Young race in 2008. Pitchers wear and tear so he's considered a bust, but it had nothing to do with coming over from Japan. Pitchers in general carry a higher risk of decline than position players, but I don't have to tell you that.

Igawa was the only total bust. Even Irabu was league average for two years as a starter and that was 25 years ago.

I think the jump of coming over from Japan has a slight impact on salaries, but the shrewd front offices know that investing in Japanese pitchers is a sound expenditure generally and the track record proves that. Stuff and command plays, and Japanese pitchers generally have it.

"Slight impact."

You really want to die on the hill of a pitcher with a sub 2 ERA at 25 years old is only getting slightly impacted in his contract when the projection is around $200M is absolutely ****ing hilarious. If he was putting up those numbers in MLB at his age he'd be looking at $400M+.

And that's not the entire list. Look up Michael Nakamura. Even a guy like Kenta Maeda, while mildly successful in MLB, has seen his ERA jump to nearly 4 in his MLB career versus 2.3 in NPB because he gives up double the HRs. Yusei Kikuchi. Kyuji Fujikawa. Shintaro Fujinami. I could keep going but there's no point. Yamamoto is a literal ****ing prospect who just happened to go through the "minor league" process in a foreign professional league that allows him to be a FA and teams aren't awarded the opportunity to pay him league minimum for 3 years with 3 years of arbitration. They have to stick their head out a little bit to get him, but its far from having to pay full market value, because it's unknown how good he'll actually be in MLB.

Yamamoto is still getting the winter's second-largest contract outside of a unicorn (Shohei Ohtani) going up against established MLB'ers and the second-largest total value contract for a pitcher in history. That's remarkable. And he's 5-foot-10.

But now you're moving the goal posts with these new names. We're talking about top level, established Japanese pitchers.

Michael Nakamura? He was signed as an amateur. WTF does he have to do with this conversation? He's no different from Brady Aiken.

Kenta Meada has had a great run. Third in the ROY voting in 2016 and then was top 3 in the Cy Young voting in 2020. He has a career 3.83 K/BB ratio! That's impressive. What's your standard? Hall of Famer?

Shintaro Fujinami wasn't even a high profile signing nor had high expectations that came with his signing. He made $3.25 million last year. You're lowering the bar again by bringing him up. Same with Kyuji Fujikawa. He never made more than $4.5 million in a season. Never expected to be anything but rotation depth.

I will give you Yusei, but he did have shoulder problems and diminished stuff before he came over here and he signed a creative deal where he got $43 million for three years with options instead of the $100 million some thought he would get.

No goalpost is being moved, you are just too ignorant to admit the obvious in the fact that because he is coming from NPB he is going to sign for much lower than he is projected to be worth on the field. That is the reason why teams are "savvy" when it comes to NPB players, because it's not near as bad when it goes wrong, and they look like ****ing geniuses when it goes right.

You're too busy looking at what the pitchers made in money versus their performance in NPB and MLB. Every single name I have mentioned was a highly successful pitcher in NPB. There's no team out there scouting the NPB's version of Steven Matz to come play in MLB.

But I'm done with this conversation. You go ahead and hang your hat on a posting fee and his height as the main limiting factors.

Shintaro Fujinami wasn't highly successful. He walked a career 4.2 batters per nine, had a 2.2 career K/BB ratio and a career 1.35 WHIP in Japan. He is the quintessential definition of Steven Matz coming to the US.

For whatever it’s worth John Heyman is reporting the cards are expected to finalize a deal with Sonny Gray today. I haven’t seen anything on numbers yet but this offseason is feeling pretty on brand so far.

Explains the announcement last week that Mo is turning Ballpark Village into an assisted living facility

Yeah typical move, overpay for an aging pitcher.

3 for 75 for Gray. 25 million per season

LMAO

Why am I even pleasantly surprised that it’s only three years when I expected Mo to give even more. Ugh.

Eh, they kept it to 3 years at least. He should be a solid pitcher for about 425 innings over those three seasons and has a little genuine upside to be a fringe 1 or strong 2 for 500+ over that stretch.

Their youngest SP is 33 (Matz).

Eh, it could've been worse. But we'll see what Yamamoto goes for. If the AAV is close and the term is 6-8 years, that was the way to go. Then again, it's possible they just couldn't get him to come to the Midwest.

We'll see.

3 years isn't even that bad. I was thinking someone was going to give him 4-5. He was a 95 percentile pitcher. If he can stay healthy, probably a good chance the Cardinals come out ahead on the deal. I guess the main issue is that they've committed themselves to a retirement age rotation.

I'm shocked they went free agent route. I figured they would trade for Glasnow.

The Cardinals will lose their second-highest pick in the 2024 draft and $500K of international bonus pool space due to the signing of a free agent that received a qualifying offer.

If he makes 80 starts over the life of that deal, they'll probably come out ahead or roughly break even.

That should probably net them about 9 WAR. I think to truly come out 'ahead' on the deal I'd want to see them get nearer to 11/12 WAR over that term but I don't think that's terribly likely. He'd likely need to get to 90 starts for that and I'm not seeing it.

Ultimately I think it's just a pretty high floor deal in that Gray gets hurt quite a bit but rarely catastrophically. It's just some 3-5 week absence that costs him 6-8 starts and otherwise he's gonna go throw 6+ innings/start and be 25-30% above average in those starts.

Not much ceiling there; certainly not as much as Yamamoto and likely not someone that's going to anchor a meaningful post-season run. I mean ultimately the stuff's just not there for that; he's a crafty righty who leans into his breaking stuff. As an undersized righty there are some breakdown concerns there but they're lessened by the fact that he's not really a max-effort, fireballer type.

That's a great singing if you need more pitching depth to get over the top and he can slot in as a #2. As your #1 coming off of a career year at 34, that's classic Mo. He's basically 3-3.5 WAR per year over the last six seasons.

I like the three signings individually, but not collectively. Gibson and Gray are good together. They need to either bring someone else that slots at possibly a 1 or 2 (unlikely) or additional depth that can eat innings as needed (competition with Lynn).

There is extreme value in having starting pitchers that can go 6 innings every 5 days.

What is key is that they didn't get murdered on term. That keeps the floor intact. You make that a 4 year deal and the downside increases substantially.

But you look at what the Phil's inked Nola for, they essentially got Nola for ages 31-37 at less than $25 million/season and we gave $25 million/season for 35-37 for Gray. So we effectively bought the last 3 seasons of the Nola deal without the remaining pitcher prime seasons at the front end of it at a higher AAV.

Then again, I don't think Nola's aging particularly well. Its possible that the next 3 years for Nola and the next 3 years for Gray are very similar with the back half of the Nola deal being a real problem. At least Gray's adjusted to his aging nicely and seems to be working with the age-related decline really nicely. Not everyone proves they can do that, so signing someone that has can really work out nicely. Especially when you're not as worried about innings limits at that point.

So the question is, are we done with starting pitching? We really need one more arm (Cease, Glasnow, etc).

Man, I just don't love those guys as trade targets. Cease just walks too many guys. The list of guys who walk as many as he does and are successful is just SO short. I really feel like 2022 was the outlier season and 2023 is more along the lines of what you're likely to get from him. Maybe 2021 as a happy medium; lots of Ks, solid effort but a ton of inefficiency that caps his value a bit. And a pending FA to boot.

Glasnow has something going on biomechnically that won't allow him to stay healthy. He just won't.

I just feel like Logan Gilbert has to be the target. Kirby is off the table for them and Castillo has a long-term deal. Ray should be returning this year, Hancock seems to be emerging, Woo looks solid in the back of the rotation and even Bryce Miller appears to be a viable 5th starter. They're one of the few teams that can actually claim a pitching surplus and they could REALLY use what we have to offer (again, one of the few teams that could).

There has to be something makeable around Gorman/Gilbert. And I don't really see Gilbert as a true 'ace' in his own right, but you don't ever get those guys once they establish themselves as such (just as the time to be aggressive for Kirby would've been last off-season). You've gotta strike early and hope for some development. And with Gilbert, your floor is WAY up there.

Mo says this is enough.

Gray
Mikolas
Gibson
Lynn
& Matz

That's so awful and I like the Gray deal....

**** mo
sec