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-   -   My official endorsement for the 11th overall pick. (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=256640)

ForeverChiefs58 03-01-2012 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 8409317)
ILB Luke Kuechly, Boston College
I actually think Kuechly might be worth the #11 overall. I think he has the potential to be an impact interior linebacker in this league.

The problem is that he's not a natural thumper. He's much more of an athletic, all-purpose linebacker in the vein of Derrick Johnson. And, well, we already have a Derrick Johnson. You need the other ILB spot in Crennel's 3-4 defense to be a line of scrimmage destroyer like Jovan Belcher.


Very nice work, and great analysis. I am curious about your points on Kuechly not being a thumper though.

I would say anyone who has 20 tackles in one game, a 33-game double-digit tackle streak between 2009 and 2011, which is the longest streak of its kind in FBS college football, would actually be considered somewhat of a thumper/destroyer type.

I know at the combine they were comparing him with Patrick Willis who is indeed considered a thumper.

According to CBSsports and ESPN, Most NFL-caliber college defenders average eight total tackles a game, counting assisted and solo stops, during their most productive season. In 2011, Kuechly led the nation with an astounding 191 tackles (102 solo) during the season, averaging nearly 16 tackles per game. That shows he is good at shedding blocks and has a nose for the ball and making plays no matter how the offense plans.

And finally, having more than one stud like DJ on our defense, wouldn't be a bad thing.

I really like the idea of getting Kuechly in the first and a NT in the 2nd, especially if Poe were to somehow drop, to go along with getting Paul Soliai in FA to really take our defense to the next level.

Although Trent Richardson is a stud and would be hard to pass if he was there, I wouldn't mind getting RB Mike Tolbert in FA to address this need.

Direckshun 03-02-2012 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 8410102)
No mention of Brockers?

Brockers is a one-year wonder, still too much of an unknown quantity. And his Combine showing was horrific.

He's falling hard.

Direckshun 03-02-2012 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldtop (Post 8410264)
Just for perspective would you rather draft Will Shields or John Tait with the 11th pick?

Very fair question. Very.

Direckshun 03-02-2012 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69 (Post 8410487)
The NFL chews and spits out running backs these days. You say that its the biggest position of need for the Chiefs while I see that we just need to replace Jones. I say we can get that sort of production from any number of backs in the 4th round.

A NT in a 3-4 defense can be a dominant player that sets up the whole defense. You're talking about all the negatives for a player that at 346 lbs was an every down player for a team that had absolutely no talent around him. He'll be in a rotation with the Chiefs.

I have no doubts that he'll need to work on his technique to be good enough for the NFL. That's not a unique situation. You can't tell me someone who can as prepared as he did to the combine is not a hard worker. You have a 346 lb DT who runs faster than some LBs and benched 44 times. He's an athletic freak. You can't teach 346 lbs. This defense is a NT away from being Raven's dominant. We ranked 11th last year without Berry, with all the blowout losses and with Kelly Gregg one step from retirement.

Dontari Poe is potentially the most dominant player we can add at our position in the draft.

I think you make a compelling case, but Poe would have to dramatically reconstruct his game. And that's a gamble you take with a player like him if (a.) he fits your scheme, and (b.) he's a reputable hard worker. He's iffy on both counts.

Alameda Ta'amu is a much better fit for this team. I'm starting to believe Ta'amu won't make it out of the first round.

If he's available at the top of the 2nd, or the Chiefs manage to trade down about 15 picks, he's perfect.

Direckshun 03-02-2012 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilson8 (Post 8410519)
Good assessment. Ironically your thought of the ideal option is to trade down, is more likely to occur if Trent Richardson is still there at 11. It might be hard for the Chiefs to draft Trent, when special offers of extra late 2nd or 3rd round draft picks come their way. Trent is a rare talent though so I hope the Chiefs plan for this possibility. KC can maybe pass on Trent if they are able to sign one of the good available free agent RBs to team with Charles.

Agreed.

It would not surprise me to see the Chiefs use Richardson to trade down.

I think I would prefer them to. But not by much...

Direckshun 03-02-2012 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForeverChiefs58 (Post 8410891)
Very nice work, and great analysis. I am curious about your points on Kuechly not being a thumper though.

I would say anyone who has 20 tackles in one game, a 33-game double-digit tackle streak between 2009 and 2011, which is the longest streak of its kind in FBS college football, would actually be considered somewhat of a thumper/destroyer type.

I know at the combine they were comparing him with Patrick Willis who is indeed considered a thumper.

According to CBSsports and ESPN, Most NFL-caliber college defenders average eight total tackles a game, counting assisted and solo stops, during their most productive season. In 2011, Kuechly led the nation with an astounding 191 tackles (102 solo) during the season, averaging nearly 16 tackles per game. That shows he is good at shedding blocks and has a nose for the ball and making plays no matter how the offense plans.

And finally, having more than one stud like DJ on our defense, wouldn't be a bad thing.

I really like the idea of getting Kuechly in the first and a NT in the 2nd, especially if Poe were to somehow drop, to go along with getting Paul Soliai in FA to really take our defense to the next level.

Although Trent Richardson is a stud and would be hard to pass if he was there, I wouldn't mind getting RB Mike Tolbert in FA to address this need.

I don't know if you've seen Boston College play much this season, but Kuechly is essentially a bigger, stronger Donnie Edwards.

He's not a backfield penetrator, and he's not going to slam into the line to plug a gap. That's simply not his game. He's a world class coverage backer, or attacking the edges, or preventing 2-yard gains from becoming 20-yard gains.

In the Crennel 3-4, you need an athletic backer like him, and we have one already who has the ability to rush the passer and slam the hole in DJ. So really, we have a player much more talented than Kuechly.

The other inside backer needs to be the guy that hits the LOS with reckless abandon, becoming another defensive lineman from time to time. And you need a Donta Hightower or Courtney Upshaw for that role. It is the most devalued of the LB positions in the 3-4, however, mostly because it's a two-down role. And you don't spend a 1st rounder on that position.

Nightfyre 03-02-2012 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 8411707)
Brockers is a one-year wonder, still too much of an unknown quantity. And his Combine showing was horrific.

He's falling hard.

He did not have nearly as impressive a showing as Poe did, I'll give you that.

Direckshun 03-02-2012 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 8411715)
He did not have nearly as impressive a showing as Poe did, I'll give you that.

Well, nobody did. Poe and RG3 won the Combine.

Brockers is an impressive player who will need to lean on his gametape. It's impressive enough to warrant a first round pick. But he's not a slamdunk prospect anymore like most of the other players are in the first fifteen selections or so.

Chiefs=Champions 03-02-2012 08:34 AM

Cant say ive watched him. But the way some of youre talking it sounds like poe gets pushed around a hell of a lot. Is that true? From what ive heard he was used more to shoot gaps. Dont get that confused with a lack of 2 gap potential..

Direckshun 03-02-2012 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs=Good (Post 8411825)
Cant say ive watched him. But the way some of youre talking it sounds like poe gets pushed around a hell of a lot. Is that true? From what ive heard he was used more to shoot gaps. Dont get that confused with a lack of 2 gap potential..

You're dead right about Poe's usage at Memphis.

I will definitely argue that it directly means he lacks 2-gap potential.

Tyson Jackson is one of the smarter DE prospects you'll run across, and it still took him three solid years to learn 2-gap football. It is a very difficult scheme to play, and requires much more technique and discipline than 1-gap. To a certain extent, you can just tell a one-gapper to "go get 'em." A two-gapper has a much more difficult responsibility.

Dontari Poe would essentially have to be re-taught football. And Crennel is up to that challenge, but he shouldn't have to be subjected to that.

I have come around on Ta'amu, though. I think Ta'amu could be an excellent two-gapper.

boogblaster 03-02-2012 09:57 AM

we need a QB .. but the top 2 wont be there ... so if we keep Orton on board, we need a OT or ILB ......

saphojunkie 03-02-2012 12:20 PM

Interesting points, all. However, I just disagree that Poe's rawness is a drawback. Romeo is a fantastic developer of defensive line talent, and I think Poe's athleticism/size ratio makes him an elite prospect. His rawness can be corrected. If a man his size had polished technique, he'd be a top three pick.

If you can teach him to drop anchor, he will be an absolute wrecking ball in the middle. We had a horrible run defense last year, and it starts at the nose. The problem with the draft this year is that the #11 pick is too low for the players you want and too high for the players you could use.

We may as well completely forget about draft value or positional value, and just take the guy we think has the potential to be the best addition for the next ten years. In that case, for me it's Reiff, Glenn, Decastro, or Poe.

I'm with you on Kuechly. ELITE middle linebacker, but redundant given DJ's skill set.

whoman69 03-02-2012 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphojunkie (Post 8412430)
Interesting points, all. However, I just disagree that Poe's rawness is a drawback. Romeo is a fantastic developer of defensive line talent, and I think Poe's athleticism/size ratio makes him an elite prospect. His rawness can be corrected. If a man his size had polished technique, he'd be a top three pick.

If you can teach him to drop anchor, he will be an absolute wrecking ball in the middle. We had a horrible run defense last year, and it starts at the nose. The problem with the draft this year is that the #11 pick is too low for the players you want and too high for the players you could use.

We may as well completely forget about draft value or positional value, and just take the guy we think has the potential to be the best addition for the next ten years. In that case, for me it's Reiff, Glenn, Decastro, or Poe.

I'm with you on Kuechly. ELITE middle linebacker, but redundant given DJ's skill set.

Sapp called Poe a bowling ball of knives. IMO our biggest position of need on D. You can't tell me that the results he got at the combine didn't come from hard work.

Direckshun 03-02-2012 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphojunkie (Post 8412430)
Interesting points, all. However, I just disagree that Poe's rawness is a drawback. Romeo is a fantastic developer of defensive line talent, and I think Poe's athleticism/size ratio makes him an elite prospect. His rawness can be corrected. If a man his size had polished technique, he'd be a top three pick.

If you can teach him to drop anchor, he will be an absolute wrecking ball in the middle. We had a horrible run defense last year, and it starts at the nose. The problem with the draft this year is that the #11 pick is too low for the players you want and too high for the players you could use.

It's not that simple.

Two-gap football isn't just physically taxing, it's psychologically taxing. It's a very tough scheme, but when you play it very well, you've got a top defense.

Crennel's a brilliant developer of talent, but two-gap football is just too tough to start all over from scratch. It's a style of play (occupying blockers, absorbing punishment) that's as much a mindset and a way of life as it is a style of play. Dropping anchor is one thing, craving the opportunity to drop anchor is another thing.

Look at the one nose tackle prospect they drafted: Jerrell Powe. Powe has dedicated his life to this specific style of play. He's so old school when it comes to the nose tackle position he calls it the "nose guard." His career after football? Construction.

Powe may or may not take off, but the Chiefs deliberately drafted him because he was built for this style of play and loves to play it. He's the block of granite type.

From my limited time watching Memphis this year, I don't think that's in Poe's DNA. I think he's a thrasher -- he has never once to occupy a blocker, his assignments his whole career thus far has been to put the guy in front of him on his ass.

I really like Poe. And I do think Crennel could develop him. I just don't think his best upside is in the two-gap 3-4. It's either in the one-gap system or in a 4-3.

It's clear that you only have really one guy from this draft that is built for this system, and it's Alabama's Josh Chapman. He has the highest floor for the position.

ThaVirus 03-02-2012 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69 (Post 8410487)
The NFL chews and spits out running backs these days. You say that its the biggest position of need for the Chiefs while I see that we just need to replace Jones. I say we can get that sort of production from any number of backs in the 4th round.

A NT in a 3-4 defense can be a dominant player that sets up the whole defense. You're talking about all the negatives for a player that at 346 lbs was an every down player for a team that had absolutely no talent around him. He'll be in a rotation with the Chiefs.

I have no doubts that he'll need to work on his technique to be good enough for the NFL. That's not a unique situation. You can't tell me someone who can as prepared as he did to the combine is not a hard worker. You have a 346 lb DT who runs faster than some LBs and benched 44 times. He's an athletic freak. You can't teach 346 lbs. This defense is a NT away from being Raven's dominant. We ranked 11th last year without Berry, with all the blowout losses and with Kelly Gregg one step from retirement.

Dontari Poe is potentially the most dominant player we can add at our position in the draft.

I agree about the RB thingy. Not so much on Poe though. Not that I've even watched him play. I'm just weary of workout warriors.


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