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Gary 06-03-2012 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tytanium (Post 8654985)
Crossposting from SA


Which Came first the Cert, The Degree, or The Experience

This is a tough one as I have found a good amount of people in IT don't actually have a college degree or certs. Yes believe it or not you can get a decent paying job just based off experience! It may take you a little longer to get there and you may have to work in the shit mill that is Help Desk, but after 2-3years and some Server/Network knowledge there isn't much keeping you from a Jr. Systems Admin.

So how should YOU do it?
School
AVOID SCHOOLS LIKE ITT TECH, ECPI, Pheonix, or any other online or not state school. Seriously these places are in it for one thing only, your money. I myself know people who have gone there and people who worked there, They will pass you regardless whatever, rack up a nice 80K loan, and then pop you into some Help Desk position at 30k/yr. You are better going off to a Comunity College or State 4yr college getting at least a AAS and a cert or 2 then getting a Bachelors in IT at a pro profit school . This doesn't mean you won't learn anything it just means employers won't laugh you out of an interview, and you will have saved a load of time and money.


What degree to get?
This depends on the school, Some smaller colleges may only have you run through Programming Languages, others may space you out in what you do. You'll have to look at your course outline and really nit pick it to find out what is best for you. I went with an AAS as I didn't really want to do a 4yr and picked up a few certs(Working on VCAP-DCA/CCNA/S+) and am well off. You just need to find what part of IT interests you most and research it.

:qqsay: I am incapable of research, What degree is right for me?

It really depends on what you want to do, and how fast you want to get there.

Associate Degree If you are unsure about the IT field, but you know you want to go into it, check out you local Community College. Great part about a Community College is that there is a very good chance you will get to meet people in the field, deal with teachers that work into the field, costs loads less, and transfer your credits to a big name college later. While it may not see the most prestigious you will get out faster, and spend ~1/3rd the cost, and still be able able to transfer most all the credits. If you want to be a Technician-Jr. Systems/Net Admin this is probably the most practical degree for you.

Bachelors Great degree to avoid the tier 1 BS, also opens up a world of opportunities and will probably get you making a bit more cash at the end of the day. Great thing about a 4yr Degree is most state colleges offer some decent internships which will give you about 4yrs EXP + a degree which will get you a job most places. If you want to go into EE, or CE this is a minimum. If you are wanting to go into Engineering, Management, Teaching(below college level), or Administration, this is more practical than a AAS

Masters If you are going for this you more than likely know what you want to do. If you plan to go into IT you'll probably get thrown into a management spot, CE/EE's will really like the pay boost and how fast they get a job in this as long as they can keep a >3.5

That said, Schooling is great to inject you in the field it opens up internship opportunities, most employers will sub a degree for X years of EXP, gain the ability to work hands on with things, and will make you more comfortable with many different pieces of equipment.

Certs See this thread for more details
Certs are wonderful way to get a much better job if you already have EXP in the field or want to get noticed by more people for proving you know something! There are many kinds of certs
Vendor Specific Certs from MS, Cisco, Vmware, Red Hat; These tend to focus on Specific Products release by each company, ie getting an MS cert would not help you much in a Linux environment.
non-vendor specificCompTIA hold this spot, offering things like A+, Net+, S+ which basically give you a general understanding of concepts in each area, these are geared more toward entry level but don't think you shouldn't look into these, especially if you want to work for the Government where an A+/N+/S+ is pretty much needed for a spot.

Certs can land you a job faster, if you lack a degree or EXP, but you will want to look into CompTIA's offerings first, then follow up with a vendor specific. You also may want to consider grouping certs, A+ is a nice cert to have but it it is almost useless if you are going for a MCSE; on the other hand getting an A+ on a Microsoft Certified: Desktop Admin/Support may look a little more appealing to an HR/recruiter.

DoD standard
What does that have to do with anything? Basically if you want to work for a Government Org you'll need a S+, and a MS cert won't help


Entry level work
Now if you have been fooling with a computer for any given length of time, and you know the basics something like HellDesk, or Bench Tech may be right up your ally! These probably aren't the most fun jobs out their but at least they are jobs with exp.

Other things you may want to consider
1. Do some Labs, fire up a virtual machine and build a Server/client network, play with a linux distro learn some commands, fiddle with your router some.
2. Talk to some people in the field, I don't know to many people who will turn you down for asking them to gloat about themselves
3. Buy a book, it won't bite you and worst case is you get a cure for your insomnia
4. Just because you have a degree/cert/EXP doesn't mean you will get the job instantly
xperience).

I WANT TO MAKE A SHITLOAD OF MONEY AND FAST! War For Profit thread has what you need, Clean Criminal Record? Got a Security+? Got time to fly around the world and live for 12 months sometimes making low to mid 6 figures? You may want to look into it. I plan to move out to Germany for 4 years, I got quoted 130k/yr+signing+completion living on base food free(or some very cheap plan, doing what looks like Network tech in Germany. in reference to your last question.

Thanks for all of this. Thankfully, I have a couple of friends that have provided me with a lot of study material already. One friend gave me 2gb worth of pdf study materials for Cisco certs. Another friend gave me a MCSA/MCSE and two Cisco books. I also have a bunch of CBT nuggets that I have been watching.

Pasta Little Brioni 06-03-2012 08:40 AM

Guard your stapler.

Bob Dole 06-03-2012 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler (Post 8654986)
I have been working in IT for 11 years and my advice is don't. If you want to change careers go into the healthcare field.

Healthcare has IT... Bob Dole has switched back and forth between higher ed IT and healthcare IT.

FWIW, the Network Security advice is pretty spot on. At this point, you can't really go wrong with anything that has ITIL attached.

Braincase 06-03-2012 08:46 AM

If you decide to move to the Kansas City area, shoot me a line. I work for one of the best IT training companies in the Midwest. We have a proven track record of success training people, getting them certified (IT Pro, Dev, Web) and then placing them in jobs.

Yeah... I know. How good can they be if they hired me, right?

But seriously, we've down a pretty good job. Yes, you will probably have to take out a loan to pay for the program, but you'll see results.

Braincase 06-03-2012 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Dole (Post 8655009)
Healthcare has IT... Bob Dole has switched back and forth between higher ed IT and healthcare IT.

FWIW, the Network Security advice is pretty spot on. At this point, you can't really go wrong with anything that has ITIL attached.

Not to mention Kansas City is becoming a hot bed, if not just a downright battlefield for the big IT companies.

ReynardMuldrake 06-03-2012 08:49 AM

In my experience having your A+ certification is a good place to start to get into IT. A 2-year degree is helpful, after that figure out what you want to do and specialize. Obviously work experience is more valuable than most certs but it is a chicken-and-the-egg problem.

Also I would avoid diploma mills like University of Phoenix, waste of money.

dirk digler 06-03-2012 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Dole (Post 8655009)
Healthcare has IT... Bob Dole has switched back and forth between higher ed IT and healthcare IT.

FWIW, the Network Security advice is pretty spot on. At this point, you can't really go wrong with anything that has ITIL attached.

I know I work in healthcare IT. :D

Maybe I am wrong but it is my perception that it is tough field to get into anymore especially if you don't have experience.

Valiant 06-03-2012 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler (Post 8655030)
I know I work in healthcare IT. :D

Maybe I am wrong but it is my perception that it is tough field to get into anymore especially if you don't have experience.

From my understanding Cerner will be going on a hiring push later this year..

loochy 06-03-2012 09:32 AM

I was serious about the REPOSQ...wasn't there a thread almost exactly like this about a month ago? It should have some good info for Gary.

Edit: This is the thread I was thinking of: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...+certification

It's about changing careers to be a web developer.

I'm sure this thread is full of info too: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...+certification

dirk digler 06-03-2012 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valiant (Post 8655066)
From my understanding Cerner will be going on a hiring push later this year..

I think they have already started. I was looking around on CareerBuilder the other day and saw they had quite of few job openings. I have heard though they work you to death and it isn't a good place to work. Don't know if that is true or not.

Gary 06-03-2012 10:41 AM

This is one of the reasons I love this place so much. There is a ton of knowledge that members can draw upon from each other. Thank you guys for all the input, and thanks for the offer Braincase. A buddy of mine I used to work with just moved to the KC area because of a job opportunity. The wife & I have thought about moving back to Kansas and living somewhere around KC. If I head your direction, I'll definitely get in touch. Thanks again!

58-4ever 06-03-2012 10:47 AM

I work for a Microsoft Partner company and it all depends on what kind of job you want. If you're willing to sit in a cube and code, then there is a ton of opportunity out there if you have the aptitude and patience for that kind of work.

My advice from a development perspective: Open source coding is more fun, but the money is in the Microsoft languages (C#, .NET) Centriq has a good specialized course plan, but they churn out A LOT of graduates, so it's like finding a needle in a haystack as far as talent goes. Good luck. If you need anything or connections, PM me and I'll hook you up to my LinkedIn and get you introduced to the right people. And if Centriq is what you want to end up doing, I have some incredible coupons to get you started at a cheap price.

Predarat 06-03-2012 10:56 AM

If you want a job that can be automated, outsourced, replaced by foreign imports willing to do your job for half the $$$ and no benefits then a career in IT is for you!

-King- 06-03-2012 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Predarat (Post 8655186)
If you want a job that can be automated, outsourced, replaced by foreign imports willing to do your job for half the $$$ and no benefits then a career in IT is for you!

How many jobs out there CAN'T be automated or outsourced?
Posted via Mobile Device

Simply Red 06-03-2012 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary (Post 8655174)
This is one of the reasons I love this place so much. There is a ton of knowledge that members can draw upon from each other.



Not really - more like a bunch of folks that know a little about a lot, trying to convince others they know a lot about a little. But really CP'ers are basically Home Depot employees.


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