ChiefsPlanet

ChiefsPlanet (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/index.php)
-   Nzoner's Game Room (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=1)
-   -   Life Ocala Florida fines business owner for flying "Dont Tread on Me" flag (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=286408)

kysirsoze 09-09-2014 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmo20002 (Post 10899303)
Cities have rules about signage and shit outside of businesses? Must be the first of its type in the nation!

Next thing, they'll be making rules about how some businesses can only be located in certain "zones" in the city other businesses need to be located in other "zones."

Only allowing people to fly American flags? Flying a flag (which in this case is patriotic anyway, not that it should matter) isn't protected free speech? The anti-outrage crowd is every bit as crazy as the pro-outrage crowd.

Saul Good 09-09-2014 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmo20002 (Post 10899303)
Cities have rules about signage and shit outside of businesses? Must be the first of its type in the nation!

Next thing, they'll be making rules about how some businesses can only be located in certain "zones" in the city other businesses need to be located in other "zones."

The one valid point he had was about other establishments not being cited for having Irish, Mexican, whatever flags. If true, he is being singled out via selective enforcement.

kysirsoze 09-09-2014 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco (Post 10899311)
See, that's your problem right there, Mr Greenberg. Your next move is to take down the flag. Your next move after taking down the flag is to address the city council at their next meeting.

That's what I would do, but it seems to me he is exercising his constitutional rights. I would rather just get the ordinance done away with quietly rather than make a big todo, but he certainly shouldn't ultimately be responsible for those fines. (Assuming he's not misrepresenting the nature of the violation)

Saul Good 09-09-2014 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kysirsoze (Post 10899316)
That's what I would do, but it seems to me he is exercising his constitutional rights. I would rather just get the ordinance done away with quietly rather than make a big todo, but he certainly shouldn't ultimately be responsible for those fines. (Assuming he's not misrepresenting the nature of the violation)

Question about this constitutional right to free speech...

Do you think that means that we simply get to say whatever we want, or do you think it means that we get to say whatever we want and also to do so whenever we want, wherever we want?

BucEyedPea 09-09-2014 10:23 PM

And people have been calling Putin a fascist?

kysirsoze 09-09-2014 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 10899321)
Question about this constitutional right to free speech...

Do you think that means that we simply get to say whatever we want, or do you think it means that we get to say whatever we want and also to do so whenever we want, wherever we want?

Of course there are reasonable restrictions. I fail to see how restricting the flying of a flag qualifies. It's not like he's planting the thing in other people's lawns.

Saul Good 09-09-2014 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea (Post 10899322)
And people have been calling Putin a fascist?

Good point. Threatening a fine over flying a flag is far more extreme than anything Putin has ever done.

cosmo20002 09-09-2014 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 10899315)
The one valid point he had was about other establishments not being cited for having Irish, Mexican, whatever flags. If true, he is being singled out via selective enforcement.

It said it wasn't clear if the other places had received notices.

Maybe official national flags are allowed, I don't know.
I'll bet that even in regard to a US flag, there are rules about the size and whatnot.

Saul Good 09-09-2014 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kysirsoze (Post 10899325)
Of course there are reasonable restrictions. I fail to see how restricting the flying of a flag qualifies. It's not like he's planting the thing in other people's lawns.

This isn't a free speech issue if it applies to all flags rather than just political ones.

It's illegal for me to build a fence across my sidewalk. Freedom of speech doesn't give me the right to build a fence across my sidewalk as long as I write a political message on it.

Having this flag up isn't illegal because of what it says. It's illegal because it's a flag, and there is a law against having flags.

Saul Good 09-09-2014 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmo20002 (Post 10899329)
It said it wasn't clear if the other places had received notices.

Maybe official national flags are allowed, I don't know.
I'll bet that even in regard to a US flag, there are rules about the size and whatnot.

Hence the "if true" disclaimer in my post...

kysirsoze 09-09-2014 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 10899331)
This isn't a free speech issue if it applies to all flags rather than just political ones.

It's illegal for me to build a fence across my sidewalk. Freedom of speech doesn't give me the right to build a fence across my sidewalk as long as I write a political message on it.

Having this flag up isn't illegal because of what it says. It's illegal because it's a flag, and there is a law against having flags.

I suppose, but fences aren't inherently vehicles for expression. Flags are. Also, they allow American flags. So in your example the fence would be legal if it had stars and stripes on it.

cosmo20002 09-09-2014 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kysirsoze (Post 10899316)
That's what I would do, but it seems to me he is exercising his constitutional rights. I would rather just get the ordinance done away with quietly rather than make a big todo, but he certainly shouldn't ultimately be responsible for those fines. (Assuming he's not misrepresenting the nature of the violation)

Him flying this flag is no different than putting up a sign or something, and there are rules regarding signage (size, content, etc.) in probably every city in the country. I doubt these city ordinances have been deemed unconstitutional.

ClevelandBronco 09-09-2014 10:35 PM

Quite frankly, despite the fact that the Gadsden flag is an especially political flag that screams free speech, I suspect that his motives for flying it are somewhat advertising related rather than purely political. Of course, only he would really know whether my suspicion is true.

BucEyedPea 09-09-2014 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 10899326)
Good point. Threatening a fine over flying a flag is far more extreme than anything Putin has ever done.

That wasn't the comparison I was making. Just that some were calling Putin a fascist. You do know what the word means, right? I am talking about controls on speech. You don't seem to have a problem with the man in the article saying he feels like this is Russia, now do you.

kysirsoze 09-09-2014 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmo20002 (Post 10899334)
Him flying this flag is no different than putting up a sign or something, and there are rules regarding signage (size, content, etc.) in probably every city in the country. I doubt these city ordinances have been deemed unconstitutional.

It's hard to say without knowing the language of the ordinance. If it is as he says, and only official American flags are allowed, then that's allowing a particular form of political expression and not another.

Again, I think he should just protest to the city and get it handled that way. Still, I think I understand the source of the outrage, if not the degree.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:00 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.