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-   -   Football Brady v. NFL: No Settlement; Judge Berman to Decide (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=294278)

MagicHef 08-31-2015 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 11696410)
The problem for Berman, Brady and the NFLPA is that the NFLPA gave the Commish the power to be judge, jury and executioner. It's all rather insane, but arbitration provisions and awards are granted EXTREME deference by the courts. Courts really want to empower arbitrators, not disempower them.

What are you expecting?

Amnorix 08-31-2015 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRichard (Post 11696388)
How many times does this need to be repeated in these threads... he wasn't punished for the balls he was punished for his lack of cooperation.


How many times does this need to be said that you are wrong -- the NFL has NEVER said that. NEVER made it clear that it was lack of cooperation that resulted in his suspension. Indeed, their lawyer said it was BOTH the deflation AND the failure to cooperate.

Amnorix 08-31-2015 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicHef (Post 11696402)
I can. The NFLPA negotiated the current CBA and agreed to give the commissioner the power he has. He used that power, the NFLPA is now trying to argue against the CBA they agreed to.

IMO, he'll throw it out, maintaining Brady's suspension.


He may at that. It will be interesting to see what language he uses. He could uphold the suspension while crucifying the NFL. That would be quite a bit of fun to read, if that's the way it goes down.

Tombstone RJ 08-31-2015 02:14 PM

if the judge pulls a stupid supreme court ruling and sides with Brady, Goodell can appeal. This is one simple reason why said judge is a complete idiot for hearing the case. Don't kid yourself, this judge is an idiot for even accepting the case.

AustinChief 08-31-2015 02:16 PM

The problem here is that our us vs them mentality will cause people to blame Brady or the Pats (who are cheaters of course) when the blame for ALL OF THIS resides with the NFL. This whole fiasco is a result of their ridiculous pandering to Peyton Manning and Brady in the first place. Then they did a slipshod job of "investigating" things. THEN they decided to issue a ruling based not on facts but on what would best play with the media.

This whole mess is on Goodell and the NFL.

Tombstone RJ 08-31-2015 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief (Post 11696428)
The problem here is that our us vs them mentality will cause people to blame Brady or the Pats (who are cheaters of course) when the blame for ALL OF THIS resides with the NFL. This whole fiasco is a result of their ridiculous pandering to Peyton Manning and Brady in the first place. Then they did a slipshod job of "investigating" things. THEN they decided to issue a ruling based not on facts but on what would best play with the media.

This whole mess is on Goodell and the NFL.

IF Brady had just cooperated and not destroyed evidence, I'M absolutely positive Goodell would have lowered the suspension to maybe 2 games. This situation rests on Brady's shoulders more than the furer's shoulders IMHO.

ChiliConCarnage 08-31-2015 02:21 PM

I'm not an official Unfrozen Caveman lawyer but I assume the ruling will uphold the NFL's decision.

The judge seemed to be trying to instill some doubt in the NFL from the coverage I've seen. That makes me assume they have the much stronger case and he was trying to coerce them into being more willing to negotiate a settlement.

Amnorix 08-31-2015 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicHef (Post 11696418)
What are you expecting?


I won't be surprised with either result. I think Berman HATES what/how the NFL has done what it has done, but the law is pretty strong for the NFL. But Berman is pretty pro-labor, and if he isn't going to throw out this arbitration ruling, then there practically is no arbitration ruling that CAN be thrown out.

I suspects he overturns the NFL, vacating the suspension, and relies primarily on fundamental fairness (refusal to allow Pash to testify). If he really wants to go hog-wild, he could go on and on about Goodell's obviously lack of neutrality, which he can argue (though I doubt case law supports) means he is entitled to less deference than an arbitrator might get in other situations.

You can trust that the opinion is largely written already, and that whoever loses will definitely appeal. If Brady wins, the NFL appeal has a reasonable chance of succeeding at the Second Circuit. If the NFL wins, Brady's appeal is VERY UNLIKELY to succeed at the Second Circuit.

Note that I wouldn't bet a nickel on which way Berman will go. I suspect he WANTS to rule for Brady, but he might not find a way to comfortably do so, given how slanted the law is in the NFL's favor.

Amnorix 08-31-2015 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiliConCarnage (Post 11696438)
I'm not an official Unfrozen Caveman lawyer but I assume the ruling will uphold the NFL's decision.

The judge seemed to be trying to instill some doubt in the NFL from the coverage I've seen. That makes me assume they have the much stronger case and he was trying to coerce them into being more willing to negotiate a settlement.

Hard to read tea leaves. I've seen federal judges (magistrates, typically) beat up one side because they were blind as to the weaknesses of their case. In other words, he was beating up the side with the weaker case.

But I've also seen what you're suggesting. Goes both ways, and generally the judge beats up on whoever is more unreasonably stubborn, in the judge's view.

AustinChief 08-31-2015 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 11696435)
IF Brady had just cooperated and not destroyed evidence, I'M absolutely positive Goodell would have lowered the suspension to maybe 2 games. This situation rests on Brady's shoulders more than the furer's shoulders IMHO.

There wouldn't even have been a situation if the NFL hadn't changed the rule on how footballs are handled... because Peyton Manning wanted it changed.

Tombstone RJ 08-31-2015 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 11696440)
I won't be surprised with either result. I think Berman HATES what/how the NFL has done what it has done, but the law is pretty strong for the NFL. But Berman is pretty pro-labor, and if he isn't going to throw out this arbitration ruling, then there practically is no arbitration ruling that CAN be thrown out.

I suspects he overturns the NFL, vacating the suspension, and relies primarily on fundamental fairness (refusal to allow Pash to testify). If he really wants to go hog-wild, he could go on and on about Goodell's obviously lack of neutrality, which he can argue (though I doubt case law supports) means he is entitled to less deference than an arbitrator might get in other situations.

You can trust that the opinion is largely written already, and that whoever loses will definitely appeal. If Brady wins, the NFL appeal has a reasonable chance of succeeding at the Second Circuit. If the NFL wins, Brady's appeal is VERY UNLIKELY to succeed at the Second Circuit.

Note that I wouldn't bet a nickel on which way Berman will go. I suspect he WANTS to rule for Brady, but he might not find a way to comfortably do so, given how slanted the law is in the NFL's favor.

If Berman does this, Goodell can appeal. If Goodell appeals it will take months to resolve. The question is, can Brady still play or are the suspensions upheld?

Tombstone RJ 08-31-2015 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief (Post 11696446)
There wouldn't even have been a situation if the NFL hadn't changed the rule on how footballs are handled... because Peyton Manning wanted it changed.

I agree, and if you look at the pats turnover ratio before and after this rule change, it's significant which tells me Brady has been doing this stuff for YEARRRRRS!

There's no one stat that affects wins and losses more than turnovers. The Broncos, KC and the Pats all play in outdoor stadiums, look at the Pats turnover ratio compared to the Broncos and KC's turnover ratios since the rule change.

Amnorix 08-31-2015 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 11696448)
If Berman does this, Goodell can appeal. If Goodell appeals it will take months to resolve. The question is, can Brady still play or are the suspensions upheld?


If Berman vacates the suspension, then it is gone. The NFL can then either appeal the ruling to the 2nd Circuit (which it is 99% likely to do), or follow some other course, such as no appeal, and move on (0.00000000000000001% chance of this) or try to fix the procedural mistakes and "do it again" in some fashion.

It would be pretty bright of them, I think, to turn to a neutral arbitrator (Tagliabue?) and have him handle it. Unlikely, however, given that the NFL is constantly engaged in proving they have the biggest dick, err, hammer, in town.

In this scenario, Brady will still be able to play until Berman's ruling is overturned or superceded in some fashion.

Worst case for Brady/Pats, is that the suspension is vacated, but then ends up only being delayed, and then gets imposed in December or in the playoffs or something. Nightmare result there.

Tombstone RJ 08-31-2015 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 11696462)
If Berman vacates the suspension, then it is gone. The NFL can then either appeal the ruling to the 2nd Circuit (which it is 99% likely to do), or follow some other course, such as no appeal, and move on (0.00000000000000001% chance of this) or try to fix the procedural mistakes and "do it again" in some fashion.

It would be pretty bright of them, I think, to turn to a neutral arbitrator (Tagliabue?) and have him handle it. Unlikely, however, given that the NFL is constantly engaged in proving they have the biggest dick, err, hammer, in town.

In this scenario, Brady will still be able to play until Berman's ruling is overturned or superceded in some fashion.

Worst case for Brady/Pats, is that the suspension is vacated, but then ends up only being delayed, and then gets imposed in December or in the playoffs or something. Nightmare result there.

Are you sure about this? I thought Goodell can simply uphold the suspension regardless how the court rules which is another reason that this dumbass judge should have never taken the case.

Amnorix 08-31-2015 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 11696457)
I agree, and if you look at the pats turnover ratio before and after this rule change, it's significant which tells me Brady has been doing this stuff for YEARRRRRS!


Except the stats you refer to aren't nearly as odd as that one article suggested, and, second, Jastrzemski is actually pretty new to handling the balls.

Plus all the evidence suggests that this whole inflation thing only blew up (pun intended) after the JEts game when the refs inflated the ball to 16 or whatever PSI.

Quote:

There's no one stat that affects wins and losses more than turnovers. The Broncos, KC and the Pats all play in outdoor stadiums, look at the Pats turnover ratio compared to the Broncos and KC's turnover ratios since the rule change.
I've never seen a coach harsher on players who fumble. Ridley's fumble rate wasn't even that bad, but he was repeatedly benched for it, and then ridden out of town.


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