They're both awful and need to go. Grigson for the TRich trade and countless other FA and draft gaffes and Pagano because he's an AWFUL coach, from the confoundingly dumb fake punt to the horrible record against winning teams to the fact that they consistently are sluggish and unprepared to play.

If it weren't for Luck and Hasselbeck playing out of his mind for several games last year, their record would be WELL below 500%.

I don't think Luck will ever be as good as Manning or Brady, which is the standard he's held too, but he's still a top 5 quarterback who's just entering his prime.

Haley made his own bed here and turned it from a Sleep Number Bed into a bed of nails. His immaturity led to his demise....

And no one who would come here would want to inherit Bortles. Many here whisper his name in the same sentence as Blaine Gabbert. I am guessing whoever comes here will want to give Bortles a shot but will want to have a good QB to give him some competition.

As for where Haley lands....I think that he has a better shot at getting the AZ job than he does the Steelers job.

Likewise.

The lens of History (and the stank of Scott Pioli) puts a very different view of Haley's tenure here than there was in real-time.

In hindsight, Haley was a damn miracle worker. And while the weapons in Pittsburgh make a big difference, he's always been a good offensive mind.

I'm not sure if he's truly HC material; he may be too vested in playing with the offense and not enough in being an administrator but I think he's earned another look. After plowing through some rough patches with Ben, I think he's earned their trust and established that he can relate to players again.

I think he'd be among the better guys hired if given another shot and honestly, the Chargers seem like a nice spot for him.

I could see Bill O'Brian immediately being on the hot seat for next year if Oakland goes in there with their 3rd string QB and somehow wins. I dont think they will but if they do that would have to be a huge punch to the gut to the Texans. This is kind of the perfect setup for them to finally get a playoff win. The Raiders arent playoff caliber now.

I dont think theyd fire him over it, but he will have to do more next year than just eeking out a shitty division for a one and done.

I understand everyone wanting to give Haley the benefit of the doubt....partly because of Pioli and his stupidity. But you have to admit he didn't help himself with some of his inability to adapt during the game.

I see we agree on the fact that he is a great Offensive Coach....I just don't think he had a keen eye for the other side of the ball and how to adjust properly during the game.

I think you're discounting a couple things.

How much Pioli made people batshit insane and how many coaches ultimately failed at their first gigs. Most of the SB winners lately were retreads.

I also disagree with your opener. It's a win now business and Pioli refused to ever accept that Matt Cassel ****ing sucked and refused to replace him or get real competition. Haley could throw a toddler fit and nobody would ****ing care if he won the game.

You're discounting how ****ing bad Matt Cassel really is.

AAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNND Its official

Gary Kubiak resigns as Denver Broncos’ head coach
Gary Kubiak and the team released a statement on Monday morning to announce his resignation as head coach of the Denver Broncos.
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Ability to adjust isn't innate; it's learned.

And as for 'keen eye for the other side of the ball' - who cares? There are very few coaches in the history of this league that were truly excellent on both sides of the ball; that's what coordinators are for.

Every coach has a particular skill-set with a set of strengths and weaknesses. Sure, Haley's will be on defense but so are Reid's. For me the question isn't whether or not he can run a defense, it's whether or not he can run an organization at large. Can he handle the personalities and responsibilities? Can he schedule workouts under the new CBA that are beneficial for his squad? Can he build a viable lockerroom culture? Big picture questions still exist for him but I think he's done some things to show that he should at least get a shot to answer them.

Side note-Lane Kiffin out for NC game. Relieved of duties

Mike McCoy was a nice OC in Denver and I still think he got raw-dogged in San Diego a bit.

Wouldn't he be a very nice fit to replace Kubiak? That would actually worry me a bit; I think Mike McCoy can coach and if given even a mediocre situation (and Denver would be a nice place to end up), he can do some good things there.

I absolutely remember how pathetic Matt Cassel was and still is....and his recent gig with the Titans just reminds everyone. I also remember Haley was stuck with Kyle Orton, Tyler Palko and Ricky Stanzi.

I also remember his temper getting the best of him in a game and getting a 15 yard Unsportsman Like Conduct penalty.

I will stick with my assessment....he is a great offensive mind but not Head Coach material.

And if I am wrong...it wouldn't be the first time.:D

Feel free but can't say he got a fair shake here.

He'll have to go back to being an OC for at least a year.

I think my answer to all your questions would be a "not in my book".

I think Haley still has enough of an ego he might not listen to his Defensive Coordinator....I think he has trouble handling his own personality how is he going to handle someone else's.

Everyone is going to point to Jack Del Rio and say, he clearly resembles Todd Haley and look how good he is doing this time around. But it's also not hard to see that his fortunes have crumbled with Carr being hurt. (Yes, not many coaches would be able to weather losing your leader)

I completely understand people giving Haley a pass.....I guess i just am not one of them.