Originally Posted by cooper barrett (Post 13222987)

An electric 40 class A RV??? I am in give a Gen that will charge batts when needed and use them when not plugged in. Price: no object???

Originally Posted by aturnis (Post 13223513)

Once full autonomy is achieved, RV's will be amazing.

Go to sleep in one city, wake up in the next. Would make for a great retirement.

Originally Posted by HemiEd (Post 13221242)

The logistics have to be a nightmare, but they have come a long way.

I found it pretty cool on our trip to Montana last year that we stopped in at least three gas stations that had Tesla charging stations.

One was actually being used and the car ended up passing us within an hour on the highway.

Electric motors have an advantage as they get up to rpm instantly thus the performance numbers.

Now the battery suppliers just needs to get their shit together.

Originally Posted by In58men (Post 13221227)

Gotta charge my car then we can leave. No thanks.

Originally Posted by Simply Red (Post 13231335)

Tesla is going out of business. They've already announced it - I didn't read the whole thread - but it's all over the web.

Originally Posted by scho63 (Post 13222970)

If someone discovers a way to recharge the battery in less than 10 minutes or creates a swap system, it's game over.

Originally Posted by Rain Man (Post 13231477)

I finally broke down and bought a little Tesla stock solely due to Wal-Mart placing pre-orders on the semi. Don't tell me now that they're going out of business.

Originally Posted by bigjosh (Post 13221292)

agreed. People dont realize the performance aspects of electric motors. It is a beautiful thing. With electric, you can get max torque right to the wheels immediately. Petrol powered cars will never be able to match the power potential of electric.

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 13231370)

They used to say Amazon was an unprofitable venture and was going out of business. Now Jeff Bezos is the richest man in the world. Tesla has too much Google money and other rich peoples investments to fail I think.

They are just currently not profitable and struggling to produce as many Model 3's as they hoped. They'll eventually produce enough, and they have more than enough demand to become profitable eventually and as more EV infrastructure and superchargers become available and seen by the public. Every day EV cars will become more and more acceptable, and sought after. Less Billy Bobs who want to hear their engine go vroom vroom and the smell of gas, and more nerds who care about the environment and innovative tech.

Originally Posted by Simply Red (Post 13231335)

Tesla is going out of business. They've already announced it - I didn't read the whole thread - but it's all over the web.

Originally Posted by Simply Red (Post 13231534)

I'm looking at twelve links after lightly searching - all recent - not sure - Fake news?

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate (Post 13231573)

Awesome numbers on the new Roadster for sure. Absolutely my kind of car.

Now, we just need to get that tech licensed to some companies that actually know how to build a production vehicle, get the cost down to a number that working consumers can afford, and we'll be all lovely.

Originally Posted by aturnis (Post 13233947)

1/10th the cost of comparable cars isn't cheap enough for you? Give me a break.

Originally Posted by morphius (Post 13221297)

The problem is that all the other manufacturers are working on their own tech, and most don't want to pay them. I do like that they have pushed the envelope, and I'm rooting for them to get their build quality up as I like the idea of having another American car company. They are showing how hard it is to start a car company.

Originally Posted by saphojunkie (Post 13235505)

They have made their tech free to any other manufacturer who wants it.

Originally Posted by cooper barrett (Post 13235488)

The Tesla $150K BEV Semi that nobody will ever see.


Give us $200K up front for a cab only semi and sit back and wait..We will enjoy using your money while you look at pictures. We will b e raising sales prices, lowering payload amounts, and reevaluating cost savings projections.
While you wait you will find the Feds, states, and localities are going to raise taxes and increase restrictions on EV semis. Oh and when the batteries have to be redistributed for weight on the front axle.... you can cry about the promised range not becoming reality.

Just sounds like snake oil without all the data being developed after the fact...

Originally Posted by cooper barrett (Post 13235488)

As a well known Trucking author and analyst said: "If I were still in the business and needed replacement or additional trucks for short routes I would go back to the used truck market for at least the next three years. I would wait for the BEV trucks coming out over the next couple of years to prove themselves before taking the plunge, giving time for Tesla and others to build out their recharging networks.

Originally Posted by cooper barrett (Post 13235488)

The addition of a founder's series truck just appears to be a desperate cash grab from Musk and company."

Originally Posted by cooper barrett (Post 13235488)

I would suggest you buy as many "Founder's semis as your cash flow can afford, Wait for the real specs and costs to be announced and total ignore what Cummin's and others are working on.

Originally Posted by cooper barrett (Post 13235488)

55 Tesla Semis are all that have been tendered by $5K deposits and ZERO takers for the Founders edition At $200K for the dopisit with no set price.. I wonder why?

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate (Post 13235654)

Ugly.

As.

****.

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate (Post 13235654)

Ugly.

As.

****.

Originally Posted by vailpass (Post 13236083)

Elon Musk fan boi sighting.

Originally Posted by cooper barrett (Post 13236107)

No shit, I am sure he sold a kidney to buy stock.

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 13236154)

Imma go to Florida to buy one in a 2 weeks. Can prob get a used end of 2014 Tesla Model S for $45k. Can save on avg 5-7% buying used cars in S Florida.

Originally Posted by vailpass (Post 13236165)

$45k for a four year old used car you'll have to find somewhere to plug in every 300 miles on your way home then stand around waiting for it to charge to full.

Sounds good.

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 13236170)

Buying a new car is a fools game. Although you do get a 7.5k tax credit, but the amt of depreciation is just not worth it.

Buy new Tesla for 100k. Sell it for 50k 3 years later. And Teslas even hold their value better than most cars of this luxury class.

Oorrr buy one used for 45k. Sell it 3 years later for 30k.

As more and more superchargers become built it will be almost just like gas stations. Most of the time you arent taking your Tesla on long trips, that would be when i would use my Prius anyway so i dont put the miles on it. I understand you can charge your Tesla up to 80% in about 20 min at a supercharging station.

Originally Posted by vailpass (Post 13236187)

Nice. $45k used car that you don't use for road trips.

If you want to live your life never driving new vehicles that's up to you.
Vehicles are an expense not an investment. Tesla is a good example of that. It would take you several lifetimes to recoup the money you save on gas from the purchase price of a tesla. But you're a Prius driver so you're familiar with that concept.

Originally Posted by notorious (Post 13236229)

New vehicle purchases are hugely advantageous to a business owner.

I save a shitload in tax money, and over the 2-3 year life of owning it will be damn near the same cost as buying used only without the headaches.

Give me an electric pickup that has the same torque and range as a diesel and I'm game.

Originally Posted by cooper barrett (Post 13236502)

I haven't done a company vehicle for quite some time, I write off the mileage or take expenses, I get the same mileage write on a used vehicle as a new one and unless something has changed, expenses are done the same on used also.

What's the benefit of buying new and trading it in to be able to write another one off.

I know you're in a service business so 95% of your miles are expensed...

I always had a work truck and a business car, business car was almost always a 2 year old AMG thus not taking the depreciation hit while still under a MB service policy.

Originally Posted by aturnis (Post 13235707)

Lol. Ok.

What about Tesla or any of Musks ventures gives you any reason to believe this will never exist? It's built, going through testing, it exists. It's a done deal. SUPER easy vehicle to build that could even be built by hand with decent margins. Same goes for the Roadster.

BTW, how do you know what the weight distribution is?



I mean, that makes sense if you don't understand the costs of opex in logistics and their impact on final product costs. Transport is a profit 5% margin industry. She's looking for an upgrade. Surely not the guy in the semi seat, but certainly the man in the real driver's seat.

Your author doesn't seem to understand that charging will likely initially be installed at the main distribution hub where the trucks are parked at night, and at their destinations to allow charging whole unloading.

Not only that, but they'll likely continue building their own, and partnering with gas stations and truck stops to install them at existing fueling points.

As for proving themselves, LOLWUT? Electric motors are a far and away proven tech. As for the batteries, I think those too can be considered proven. A possible moot point though as the batteries might be leased to give operators peace of mind.

I spoke with a diesel mechanic friend of mine, he says he expects adoption pretty quickly as diesel is currently about as efficient as we can make it.

My dad, who used to own his own long haul trucking company, agrees. He's a hater, but seems to be bitterly impressed.



Desperate? They do a Founders Series for every vehicle. Semis are the hardest use case of daily transport to figure out how to electrify. You figure this out, it becomes blatantly obvious that everything else is possible. No more excuses for existing industry. Hence the reason EVERYBODY has admitted defeat and is going all electric.



I mean, I will ignore Cummins and all of their friends. So far, all they've accomplished is a Class 7 with 100 miles of range, and Daimler managed a Class 8 with 220. Not terribly compelling.

What happens when Tesla unveils the prototype for the concept rendering of their medium duty truck and eats everyone's lunch there too? All that will be left is taking down consumer trucks, which again, shouldn't be too hard.

You need to realize this is about understanding how to generate and store electricity EFFICIENTLY, and apply that tech to an inherently efficient vehicle design. Something existing industry has shown no real understanding of. The US is ESPECIALLY far behind in this regard.



Hold on here. Without Tesla releasing any pre-order info, where did you get these silly numbers that obviously are not grounded in reality?

We know that day one, 3 buyers reported ordering 55 semis between them. Many more also pre ordered semis that night, beings the big movers in the industry were all there to see it first hand.

Meanwhile, Tesla has reported their expected costs. With the cost being so shockingly low, I can only expect orders will go up.

With the payback for the added capex in the US under 2 years for a heavily used rig and less than a year in Canada and Europe, this is a no brainer.

Over the million miles Tesla is guaranteeing the drivetrain for, the savings from operating this truck will pay for 3 more brand new semis.



Tesla stock isn't about a car company. The stock is about the batteries and the itunes model of selling the hardware AND the music. Or the phone AND the software. Driving your own demand. In other words, selling the car, and the fuel. The big 3, and their eastern counterparts don't seem to get that either.

Hell, they resisted so hard knowing it was superior tech. For what? They didn't want to upset the apple cart for their friends in oil and the parts industries? With electrification, both of those industries are next to dead.

You should really get on board. 30% of US carbon emissions are from transport. A number easily brought down through electrification.

Cool fact, in order to drive a Model S 300 miles, it takes about the same amount of electricity as powering your house for 3-4 days. Get one or two of these in every driveway and we WILL need new baseload power. Which, beings NEW baseload capacity is MUCH cheaper to deploy with renewables than fossil fuels(cheaper than nuclear too), Tesla again stands to gain as they make solar panels AND the cheapest best performing batteries available.

DOE expected electric cars to be cheaper that their comparable ICE counterparts within 6 years, published last year(?). Tesla seems to be really early to that party.

The magic number for battery cost is $100/kWh. Based on the semi and Roadster, if Tesla isn't there already, they are CRAZY close. WAY ahead of expectations. Meanwhile, the rest of industry is still aiming for early to mid 2020's.

How on earth can you trust Wall Street mouth pieces who claimed to see no synergies between batteries, electric cars, and solar while Tesla was in the process of acquiring SolarCity? They're all a bunch of rubes. Tesla seems to progress to new victories seemingly ever other day, yet 9/10 articles about them are decidedly negative. It's pretty obvious there's a strong smear campaign being run.

"Their balance sheet, blah blah blah". This is the silicon valley business model. The Street HATES it, but only b/c it breaks their system. Add in a CEO with a value of 20 billion and a "not afraid to lose it all" mentality, I don't think we'll see Tesla sunk. Unless of course the illuminati are real, lol.

How can so many be against an American company with the most American made auto products in the world? I'll never understand it. Do you really want China to own the future?

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 13236566)

He’s probably referring to bonus depreciation that you don’t get with used. That would benefit him if he doesn’t keep it for the 5 year life.

I’m on the other end. My position is industry standard is the business provides agronomists and managers a vehicle that they also drive to and from work. So I’m taking 100% of the bastard and the corporation pays repairs. I’m not dicking around with mileage logs, percentages, allocations, goddamned cluster**** rocket science equations to calculate a couple thousand dollars gain when you trade the ****er off.

Not this ****ing guy. Corporation owns the pickup per industry standard. No sense making something simple complicated to the sake of the IRS.

Originally Posted by cooper barrett (Post 13236678)

It does not have to be new to take "section 179" as long as its a HD truck and is used 50% for business. Bonus is only for new but you would have to be buying a small SUV to capture it. On a small truck/ suv the 179 is capped at 25K and bonus on a new vs used would be $10K Trucks over 6Klbs are 100% write off new or used.

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 13236717)

Bonus depreciation is different than 179.

I’m not going to speak to notorious’ tax planning but you asked the difference between new and used and bonus depreciation is the difference.

Originally Posted by cooper barrett (Post 13237022)

yeah if it is a heavy work truck you get a 59K deduction dropping your earnings that much, It you are in a moderate tax bracket 28% + 15.3 you just saved $25K in fed and fica,(ss) payments.

If I buy a used truck w/ 6' bed that is 2 years old for $30K I get to write that much off also saving 29K and at 28% plus FICA or 13K totalizing 42K plus I get lower insurance, property taxes, and still get mileage or expense deduction.

I like it, I didn't really run the numbers as to new vs used, but I think I see a 4 door truck with a 6 ft bed in my future. I always wanted a an El Camino SS

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 13237061)

Eh. Do what works for you.

All the tax numbers are one thing but you still gotta write the check. Tax accountants give no ****s about cash flow. Many a mother****ers get strung on cash flow deficiencies.

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 13237061)

Eh. Do what works for you.

All the tax numbers are one thing but you still gotta write the check. Tax accountants give no ****s about cash flow. Many a mother****ers get strung on cash flow deficiencies.

Originally Posted by vailpass (Post 13236083)

Elon Musk fan boi sighting.

Originally Posted by stevieray (Post 13236606)

Porsche

Originally Posted by notorious (Post 13237123)

You saved so much on your taxes last year by buying new gear, NOW PAY FOR THE ONE YEAR OLD GREEN PAINT!!!!

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 13237277)

There aren’t 179 limits on farm equipment. It’s just vehicles. Because fraud. Nobody is buying their wife an articulated 4 wheel drive to pick their kids up from school.

Besides that. Most BRAND NEW Deere shit would max out the 179 limits anyway. ****ing Deere.

It’s going to be one hell of a long time before I can buy any factory Deere paint. Someone else has to knock the new off (and the good in most cases) before I’m going to have it.

Originally Posted by mac459 (Post 13237292)

Here these are better than those nasty green things anyway

http://blog.caseih.com/wp-content/up...teiger-600.jpg

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 13237353)

We talked about running some red. Problem is I’m 5 miles from the Deere outfit and 50 from the nearest red outfit. About the 10,000th time I kill an hour to go get some damn special bolt only to hear “I can have it here Monday”. I’d flip my shit.

Originally Posted by mac459 (Post 13237388)

That’s the same problem we run into on our farm. Deere is about 45 min away and Red is 2 hours..been lucky so far and only needed to make 1 trip to the dealer for parts. We called ahead to make sure they had them first

Originally Posted by ghak99 (Post 13554408)

...... ya, about that semi.

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 13237648)

Holy shit. I give the parts counter a lot of business. One year we had a guy working for us that was a good mechanic and we let him do some annual inspection stuff. I didn’t feel like we did a lot on anything in particular except quite a few wear parts on the combine.

Then later on the CSR comes out carrying this crap knife set that the coop gives out for patronage gifts and says we were a top 10 parts customer. He was trying to make a big deal about it. And I get it. He’s trying to reward his loyal customers or whatever. But damn all I could think was, “congrats Buehler. You got the junk equipment award.” :Lin:

I can’t imagine what we would have had if we shelled a hydro or something. I think the only things we tore up were a driveshaft on a cornhead and a gearbox on a mower. The rest were wear parts!

Originally Posted by cooper barrett (Post 13554496)

I don't give away knives, I bet Oprah does.

Getting things in order is tough especially when you slack off on the PM but the big question is "did you keep the knives?"

Originally Posted by cooper barrett (Post 13554496)

I don't give away knives, I bet Oprah does.

Getting things in order is tough especially when you slack off on the PM but the big question is "did you keep the knives?"

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 13554429)

What about it. Did I miss something?

Originally Posted by aturnis (Post 13554573)

Tesla is the most shorted stock on the market. Short sellers are losing their asses. So naturally, Wall Street, in an attempt to help out their buddies, write mostly negative articles about the company. They can turn literally anything into a negative, even positives. It's largely why Musk got pissed at some of the questions in the last quarterly conference call. Short seller investors kept asking the same financial questions that were answered in the financial report handed to them earlier in the day.

These "reports" about the Tesla Semi program "being dead", are based off of one Amateur financial analysts symptom, based off of the fact that the Semi was largely ignored in the conference call. https://www.google.com/amp/s/seeking...esla-semi-dead

The guy is the literal definition of hack, as are 90%+ of the writers over at Seeking Alpha. Nevermind that the entire focus of every investor on the call was Model 3 production, but it's also been the sole focus of Tesla for almost a year now. Using this guys logic, the Roadster, S and X, Energy Storage, Solar cells and pickup are all dead projects as well.

The Semi project is very much alive. In fact, Musk said in that very quarterly earnings call that they'd likely beat their 500 miles range promise and should be close to 600 miles per charge.

The guy also focuses on the fact that they "only" have 2000 Semi preorders. Completely ignoring the fact that an industry he himself calls "extremely conservative" is going to tread lightly with new tech, and will want to test internally extensively before making major investments.

That said, some large buyers who have been a part of testing the early prototypes say that their number crunchers believe that the truck will pay itself off in under 2 years.

The only real concern with the program is how Tesla will distribute the charging infrastructure necessary throughout the country and world.

Personally, I think that won't be nearly the problem some make it out to be. I think those investing in the trucks will see the financial advantages of installing solar and storage along with charging infrastructure directly at their own facilities. Given Nearly 80 percent of freight in the U.S. is*moved less than 250 miles. The average length-of-haul in the trucking industry has dropped from about 800 miles 15 years ago to about 500 miles last year, according to the American Trucking Associations, a result of port expansions nationwide and the e-commerce boom. So a wholly owned charging solution should suit most customers.

Originally Posted by aturnis (Post 13235707)

Tesla again stands to gain as they make solar panels AND the cheapest best performing batteries available.

Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 13554587)

I have to imagine that the first buyers will be companies that have short routes that can basically just haul every day and charge every night. That should be pretty easy to implement and prove the concept. As e-trucks (Can we call them ETs to contrast with EVs? That would be fun.) become more common, the highway infrastructure will adapt as needed.

Trucking companies have a TON of reasons to try and reduce fuel costs, so it won't be hard to get the capital investments to work once the concept is proven.

Originally Posted by listopencil (Post 13554594)

Wait, hold on, I thought Tesla used 18650's (or similar) that were made by other companies?

Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 13554604)

Maybe back in the day. They make their own these days (or at least they're working toward that).

Originally Posted by listopencil (Post 13554618)

I'm digging around and it looks like Panasonic makes 18650's for Tesla.

Originally Posted by Claysexual (Post 13554737)

Maybe Musk will one day wake up and begin manufacturing products that people want.

Originally Posted by Bewbies (Post 13554747)

I get not like Tesla, and I get people thinking Musk is an idiot.

But the Model 3 is the most desired car of all time. As in the history of the world. Clearly people want what he's making.

Originally Posted by GloucesterChief (Post 13554782)

I would like it if Musk would stop sucking at the government teat and see if his business would survive then.

Originally Posted by GloucesterChief (Post 13554782)

I would like it if Musk would stop sucking at the government teat and see if his business would survive then.

Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 13554803)

Once oil subsidies are removed, you might have a point.

Originally Posted by vailpass (Post 13554795)

They’d close their doors tomorrow. He’s a generational idea man but needs to leave the implementation and manufacturing to people that know how to do it.