I'm more than sure player personnel on the defensive side was discussed during that 9hr long meeting.

Hali is playing better as a OLB than he was at DE
DJ is much better playing at ILB than OLB
Houston is too small for DE, and is too slow for covering at OLB

It would be criminal to switch to a 43 now.

This team needs offense.

I gotta think Reid is a smart guy. Get a QB, build up the offense, WIN.

We played a 30 or hybrid front for most of the time DT was here. Under Cowher is was true 3-4. They switched to a true 4-3 for a few games in 1992 under Dave Adolph but after seeing Derrick Thomas in pass coverage, they switched to a hybrid front. Gunther also tried 4-3 but ended up with a hybrid front with that stupid Falcon thing.

Here comes the Wide Nine

We need to hope Rivera's meeting goes bad today, he'd be a perfect fit for the pieces on the d.

Probably not.

It would be more like :

Hali, Poe, Powe, Jackson

Houston is too small to play DE, imo

Right now, Hali is too.

If Tyson Jackson were to fit in a 4-3, it would be defensive tackle, not defensive end. And that's a HUGE IF.

You seriously don't think that Houston can put on 12 lbs? He's 12 lbs lighter than Jared Allen is right now. And 3 inches shorter.

Houston can damn sure play DE in a 4-3.

This. Our 3 best players on defense are at their best in the 3-4. Why change?

This basically, plus the fact that DJ performs much better when he doesn't have to take on blockers. DJ didn't do well at MLB in the 4-3 either, much better at ILB in the 3-4.

Any news on the DC? If we switch, I think we are screwed.

It'll be a "Denver style" 4-3

Jackson, Dorsey, Poe, Hali

Houston (Von's role), MLB, DJ

Sure he can put on 10 pounds. He could put on 50 too.

Will his pass rush skill be EXACTLY the same if he does?

Why **** with what's working?

Who says we can't switch this shit up?

On 1st down, sometimes 2nd down.

DE-Tamba
DT-Poe
DT-Powe
DE-Jackson

On obvious passing downs

DE-Houston
DT-Poe
DT-Jackson
DE-Bailey

OLB-Houston-put him on the line and rush him.

The coaches being talked about right now aren't "switch it up" coaches.

Yup. That's what PGM was talking about. I'd be fine with the 4-3, if we decided on a hybrid type defense. But we're either going to convert to a Tampa 2 or probably a traditional 4-3 with 2 DEs with their hands on the ground and 3 OLBs who are your traditional sideline-to-sideline type guys. The guys we're looking at have great experience in one defense, but haven't been innovators or guys who do anything but that traditional look.

That's the problem. Rivera is a guy who proved he can flex scheme. Other guys, especially Monte Kiffin... those guys have not.

They are 4-3 coaches though. Get ready because it's coming, whether you like it or not.

I agree, but if we're going with milkman's comment about Pioli... this is essentially what we're doing. We are making our players fit a scheme instead of the scheme fitting players. And quite possibly, if we hire Monte Kiffin, we're forcing them into an obsolete scheme. Isn't that exactly what we did with Pioli, where we had good enough talent to start running a 43 and he instead forced not only a 34, but a 2-gap system that was becoming obsolete?

That's why we are having this discussion.

Just throwing shit out there man. Of course it would be nice to have a coordinator fit these talented players into a friendly scheme for them.

I'd like to go back to the 43 if not for any other reason but it's not the Pioliass way.

That's kind of silly.

If anyone lives in Carolina, try and cause Rivera to be late to his meeting.

No, I'm with you. I like your idea a lot. If that's the route we go, that's great. I just don't think that's the route we're going. I hope I'm wrong.

As I've said before, go find a guy who can run the 46.

We've got a damn near perfect situation for running that type of defense in terms of personel.

Sounds like it won't be Rivera as he is likely to stay with Carolina.

Rivera is staying with Panthers.

that's the only honest reason to switch this team.

27 sacks this season -- that is pathetic for a 4th year defense.

29 sacks the season before. still not good.

38 sacks during 2010 -- that's good.

10 ****ing sacks the last time this team was 43 base defense. 10.

I'm gonna expect they will use base 34 with a lot more 43 initially. If they have success 43, then they will use it more. But unless they get a capable pass rusher not named Justin Houston, I doubt they will switch.

Houston is a good all around backer -- he can cover, tackle and sack. Why would you limit his abilities putting him in a an exclusive role? I would not.

Man, I really think going back to a 4-3 when you've finally got the key pieces for a 3-4 is a HUGE mistake.

And, you know, I think Andy Reid is a smart guy and realizes that some of these defensive schemes are outdated. I mean, if HE knows how to take apart a Tampa 2, don't you think he'd rather not have THAT be the defense he runs?

I'm holding out hope for a hire from the assistant ranks in either San Fran or Pittsburgh.

I would keep a eye on Monte Kiffin, Mel Tucker among others.

I don't want Kiffin. No.

How about Kieth Butler, if they could pry him away from Pittsburgh? Also Jim Tomsula of 49'ers might be worth considering.

Yes. Also wouldn't be against Todd Bowles if they let him run the 3-4 instead of forcing him to coach the wide 9.

100% agree...

I don't think giving the man more power than he's ever had tells him he needs to reevaluate his philosophy...

hali was a DE originally, Houston would do fine as a Will linebacker, and Dorsey was a 4-3 DT originally. there wouldn't be much need to change personnel. however, i like the versatility that comes with the 3-4, and would prefer to stick with it.

Are there any 3-4 coaches out there even?

(and by out there, I mean available in a non Rivera sorta way)

27 sacks when you never have the lead and your team knows it has nothing to play for is fine.

Ray Horton
Reggie Herring of the Texans

I'm sure there's plenty of others I'm not considering.

Unfortunately, he runs 2-gap.

No thank you.

Hali would have to gain weight again to be 4-3 which would limit his effectiveness. Dorsey hasn't proven anything and has absolutely no pass rush skills. He would need to be replaced 3-4 or 4-3.

Dorsey has been solid against the run and IMO has been coached to focus on that only. I think that plays against his strengths and why he was such a high pick. His first step at lsu was crazy good and he was a disruptive player against the pass and run.

If we go back to the 4-3, he would be worth signing if we can get him at a reasonable amount.

RDE Houston
DT Dorsey
DT Poe
LDE Hali

Not in sub packages playing the 3-tech.

Nope it is a 4-tech. )
ALIGNMENT
LE
–
4 TECHN
–
0 TECHRE
–
4 TECH

BASE TECHNIQUE: 2 GAP
(align slightly off the ball)
http://htmlimg4.scribdassets.com/nns...ce67d217d2.png

This is the hire I can't wait for. I'm not too concerned about offense, but Reid needs to nail this side of the ball. If he does, it's on!

I'm copying this. Might make it my desktop background. I need to know more about football.

I wonder if Houston is a better fit playing DE or the SAM LB position?

I will say this though: the guy is REALLY fast off the edge. He has Dwight Freeney speed.

I was really hoping Rivera got the axe, he'd be perfect.


Hoping for Ray Horton.

Depends on where you are.
Everywhere I've coached numbers (from head up-center out)
0, shade, 1,2,3 4i,4,5, 7,6,9.
Seems confusing, but keeps all the head up numbers even.
That said, it seems most NFL teams just number 1-9 straight out.

We're going to the 4-3. Andy's in charge and this is what he wants.

Best accept it now.

Probably, but I know Horton was someone Reid wanted a day or two ago.

You don't know that for sure yet. It's really going to set this defense back if we make the switch. I'm still holding out hope that we hire a 3-4 DC.
I see no reason why Reid couldn't hire a 3-4 guy and hand thee D over to him completely. Reid will have full responsibility for the offense. He needs to stay the **** away from the D anyway considering the last DC he hired was a ****ing O-line coach.

Hopefully Reid is smart enough to do what the good coaches do which is play to your players strengths, and where our D is concerned that would be playing the 34.
DJ, Houston, and Hali, three of our best players, will be negatively effected if we go back to the 4-3. I'm not looking forward to another 10 sack season.

This has nothing to do with the 4-3.

Mostly, it had to do with losing Jared Allen.

This defense sucks. We have nowhere to go but up.

Switching to the 4-3 isn't going to be the hangup people think it is.

Houston is emerging into a monster in the 3-4. I don't see him being the same player at DE. DJ is not a 43 MLB. He would pretty much have to go back to the will. Where he has never produced. Tamba has never had more than, what, 8 sacks out of the 43? I think Dorsey might be able shine, but will he be here?
I could be wrong about this, and hope I am if we make the switch, but I think you know that I think this D is a lot better than what they showed this season under screwed up conditions, and is pretty close to very solid 34. We'll see I guess. I just don't want to walk away from what our LB core could be with the right coaching in an attacking scheme.

What does Monte Kiffin run?

A shitty out of date 43 tampa 2 defense.

I expect this defense will resemble Houston's one gap schemes next season. Just because a team is a "one gap" base, does not mean that they run that all day, all teams mix it up with two gap, zones etc.

The thing about the Chiefs though, they still need to get faster on both sides of the ball. The have Houston & DJ, those two give them some speed on defense and of course Jamaal is the speedster that propels the offense. They need more though. that will give more flexibility.

There are exactly ZERO rumors of us looking at guys that run 3-4, 1-gap schemes. Zero.

So why you expect this defense to resemble Houston's?

Switching to the Tampa 2 absolutely will be.

That will be a HUGE project that wont be completed anytime soon.

I reeeally hope thats not the way we go, it'll delay real success for two years.

I thought OCity said we were in the running to get Ray Horton from AZ somehow? :(

Thought TBG had heard something about him, could be wrong.


What are your thoughts on him?

****. Yes. are my two thoughts on hiring Horton to run our D.

He's a 34 guy, IIRC. What does he run on the backend?

1-gap, fire zone base ala pittsburgh.

Was their D-backs coach for several years. Solid defensive mind.

Thanks. He'd be a good fit for the group we have. I'd really like to see Poe in a 1 gap scheme for an entire season all the time.

Do we have any one else on the roster at this point, who could effectively play in a 1 gap scheme?

From what I've read, TBG's guy thinks we're interested but Horton really wants to be a HC.

All of the stuff nationally is that Horton wants to be a HC.

Until Horton gets fired I'm not sure why people are even talking about him.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/1...ense-andy-reid

Makes the thought of Kiffin a bit less sickening.

Bullshit. The thought of Kiffin is absolutely sickening.

USC and Pat Haden FORCED Lane to fire his father or he would have been fired as well. They have too much speed and athleticism on that defense to be tossed around like they were the past few years. That scheme negated those athletes and killed their chances at a national championship.

USC was preseason number one. The defense let them down with their stupid archaic scheme. If the Chiefs hire that 72 year old **** and switch back to the Tampon 2, I highly doubt I'll pay for the NFL Sunday Ticket for the 12th consecutive year.

We need a defense that attacks, not one that bends to the will of the offense. Kiffen is a depressing hire for sure if they do that.

i can dream, can't I?

I think Hali could still be a good pass rusher if he isn't asked to put weight back on. 4-3 under Houston would be used similar, and probably rush the passer just as much if not more than Crennel did with him.