I wish they'd make a vaccination for rotovirus.

Having a kid or two involved in a barf-o-rama every thursday night for a month gets old.

How does a 30lb kid barf the volume of a 400lb man who just drank a case of beer and ate at a buffet?

Washing your hands and using germ-x several times per day this time of year is as likely to keep you healthy as anything else you do.

Keep your hands away from your face and nose....

Johnny! Don't put that finger in your ear! You don't know where it's been!

But if I'm exposed to the flu bug and do not contract the flu (my own immune system fought it off), did I not make my immune system stronger on its own?

I wouldn't say that you made your immune system stronger....it's more like your immune system is already strong enough because it didn't let the flu virus take hold and multiply.

I don't know why, but the years I have gotten flu shots, I get sick more often. It just doesn't work well for me, so I haven't had one in five years. Honestly, I have had a few head colds during that time, but I haven't had the flu once.

My immune system strong like bull.

Of course, now that I've made such a big deal about my strong immune system, I expect to come down with a killer cold or flu that will lay me up for days.

No and I rarely get the flu. Maybe the seasonal cold but not full blown influenza. Now I'm cursed.

First I would like to say that I do not post to cause an argument, but to cause people to think outside the box as it were and make intelligent decisions with something as important as ones health. I have made my choices in my life and have been very fortunate. I raised four children who have never been sick. They are 37, 34, 29 and 27 and never been sick, ever. They have never had a shot of any kind in their lives. Their bodies know what to do because they have been raised naturally with a strong belief that the body knows what to do considering they started out as two half dead germ cells, the sperm and the ovum. I believe our Creator does not make junk and the human body needs no help, just no interference. I am by no means telling you what to do, just sharing my experience. You must ask yourself how is what you've been doing working for you? If you or your family is sick a lot maybe it's time for a change? Now to your comments:

Ever consider all the crap that's in the shots and foods that kids years ago didn't get? Consider that maybe, just maybe they have poisoned children and therefore all these new conditions? (Because of weakened immune systems)

Years ago there was not the peanut allergy where a small ingestion of anything with peanuts can cause a child's death. Asthma through the roof. Autism rates are rising at an alarming rate. Used to be one in ten thousand and now one in eighty nine? What changed? Did our bodies forget how to make healthy children? Or could it be we are being poisoned all in the name of science?

As far as smallpox I will paste this article from those much more enlightened on that specific disease than me.

WHO SMALLPOX ERADICATION SUCCESS RECONSIDERED--Raymond Obosawin MD

Although smallpox is apparently now accorded to the history books, it will be necessary to re-examine the issue of this disease having been universally eradicated, with particular reference to the WHO eradication campaign. An honest look at this question is of considerable importance, as the current worldwide UCI-EPI program gains much of its legitimacy and inspiration from this widely acclaimed success story.

A strong challenge to this now popular view, is reflected in the post-campaign findings of medical researchers like Buttram and Hoffman:

Most people probably credit the smallpox vaccine with playing the major role in recent eradication of smallpox throughout the world, but let us examine the facts. In the article 'Vaccines a Future in Question,' statistics showed that less than 10 percent of children in developing countries have received vaccines.



They went on to comment that with this level of coverage, the WHO campaign was not a real factor in the eradication. Data obtained in their broad based research also led them to conclude that "mass smallpox vaccination was not necessary for the eradication of smallpox.110

In further examining this question from a longer historical perspective, it became readily apparent that the WHO claim did not at all square with the earlier data, i.e., historical smallpox eradication efforts. If we go back as far as the last century, we discover that Creighton's independent research findings as published in the Ninth Edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica, strongly contradict the effectiveness of mass smallpox immunization programs. A few revealing excerpts follow:

. . . in Bavaria in 1871 of 30,742 cases 29,429 were in vaccinated persons, or 95.7 percent.
Notwithstanding the fact that Prussia was the best re-vaccinated country in Europe, its mortality from smallpox in the epidemic of 1871 was higher (69,839) than any other Northern state.
According to a competent statistician (A. Vogt), the death-rate from smallpox in the German army, in which all recruits are re-vaccinated, was 60 percent more than among the civil population of the same age . . . although re-vaccination is not obligatory among the latter.
It is often alleged that the unvaccinated are so much inflammable material in the midst of the community, and that smallpox begins among them and gathers force so that it sweeps even the vaccinated before it. Inquiry into the facts has shown that at Cologne in 1870 the first unvaccinated person attacked by smallpox was the 174th in order of time, at Bonn the same year the 42d, and at Liegnitz in 1871 the 225th.111


As we move on into the earlier part of this century we find the same dismal picture of increased susceptibility correlated with increased vaccination coverage. Dettman and Kalokerinos describe a visit they paid to the Philippines about 15 years ago:

. . . We were fortunate enough to address their own medical (and) health officials where we reminded them of the incidence of smallpox in formerly "immunized" Filipinos. We invited them to consult their own medical records and asked them to correct us if our own facts and figures disagreed. No such correction has been forthcoming, and we can only conclude that between 1918-1919 there were 112,549 cases of smallpox notified, with 60,855 deaths. Systematic (mass) vaccination started in 1905, and since its introduction case mortality increased alarmingly. Their own records comment that "The mortality is hardly explainable." 112



Speaking at a 1973 environmental conference in Brussels, Professor George Dick admitted that in recent decades, 75 percent of those that have contracted smallpox in Britain, have had prior a history of vaccination. In that "only 40%" of children were vaccinated (and at most 10 percent of adults), such figures clearly indicate that the vaccinated--as in the much earlier historical record--continue to show a higher tendency to contract the disease. Dick also admitted that smallpox had been eradicated in certain tropical countries without mass vaccination.113 (Table VIII reveals that in the 16 year period preceding the year the WHO eradication campaign was launched--38 additional countries had ceased to report any smallpox cases.)114

A. Hutchison writing in the Journal of the Royal Society in 1974, referred to the smallpox vaccines "lack of potency" and the inadequacies of other measures for containment, in his words, "I have given details of the various outbreaks of smallpox in Britain and where they were diagnosed. These clearly indicate that the (preventive) measures are most ineffective.115

An article in the New Scientist indicates that "The smallpox family of viruses is genetically unstable," and that new viral strains which threaten the "WHO smallpox eradication programme, could emerge anywhere.116 It is thus of interest that in a 1980 article in the Australasian Nurses Journal, Dettman and Kalokerinos pointed out that electron-microscopy cannot distinguish between the various "poxviruses.117 (According to D, de Saving of IDRC, as of 1990 DNA sequencing can make the distinquishingment. What is not known though, is whether this has any beating on the reporting of the various "pox" diseases worldwide.) This fact led them to raise a vitally significant question "as to whether smallpox may be declared conquered, (it's estimated that only 10 percent of the world population actually received the vaccine) with the possibility of it masquerading under the guise of a similar pox." Their line of evidence and reasoning is summarily stated:

. . . we claim that if the evidence is honestly evaluated that smallpox has actually been prolonged and that the so called protective vaccinations actually put the recipient at risk from . . . the disease itself. Authorities now realize this and the 'top world' countries are making vociferous protests about third world countries continuing use of smallpox vaccination because (a) suddenly it has become recognized that it is an extremely dangerous procedure, (To give some idea of the vaccine's dangers, it was reported--in the late sixties--that annually, roughly 3,000 children were experiencing varying degrees of brain damage due to the smallpox vaccine; and according to G. Kiftel in 1967, smallpox vaccination damaged the hearing of 3,296 children in West Germany, of which 71 became totally deaf.117) and (b) it has now been conquered. The ultimate in ingenuity. . . .118



In turning to recognized textbooks on human virology and vertebrate viruses we find that attention has been given since 1970 to a disease called "monkeypox," which is said to be "clinically indistinguishable from smallpox." Cases of this disease have been found in Zaire, Cameroon, Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Liberia, and Sierra Leone (by May 1983, 101 cases have been reported). It is observed that " . . . the existence of a virus that can cause clinical smallpox is disturbing, and the situation is being closely monitored."119 (For a highly detailed account of the history of this disease and efforts to eradicate it, which further corroborates these observations, see, Razzell P., The Conquest of Smallpox, Caliban Books, United Kingdom, 1977.)

How come people will use CDC statistics about autism, but won't believe the CDC when they say vaccinating doesn't cause autism?

All of this vaccination and the Chiefs STILL don't have a decent QB? Coincidence? I THINK NOT.

ITS ONLY FALSE WHEN ITS NOT A PART OF MY AGENDA

NO.

I was deadly sick at 22. High fever, hallucinations, mucous flowing from every hole in my face.

Since then I've had nothing. I'm 37 ( **** you!) now and despite bad knees and shoulders I've been fine for years...

I sir have no agenda and do you honestly believe that the CDC does not have an agenda? I can share with you articles from peer reviewed refereed journals that show that many, not all, researchers give the answers that they are being paid to give. I have two such articles from Harvard researchers no less. All I am saying is don't take the governments word for it. They have an agenda and your health is not their priority.

By the way if you think I have an agenda, what do you think it is? I am retired in Florida after 37 years in healthcare. More than likely I will never meet anyone on this board, so what could my agenda be? Maybe I just have a lot of experience in this area and wish to share it to get people to think on their own and not like a robot and accept the line being put forth by Big Pharma.

Blessings and good health to you all.

You don't want to start on this subject...

Oh, I know that our health is not their priority. However, Brock's point was kind of funny...

No thanks, dont want it, dont need it.

This is not true.

The flu shot this year is for three strains, which is typical. H1N1, H3N2 (the stuff that's running rampant and particularly nasty) and another Type B influenza.

How come most doctors recommend that you get a flu shot then?

I have never had one until this year. My employer paid for all of them to get them for free so I got one this year. I haven't got the flu since I was a little kid though so not sure how much it makes a difference for me.

I only have a few questions for you. Have you ever asked your doctor for the box the vaccine came in and read the ingredients? I had a couple of patients who swore they were not getting heavy metals in their shots ask the doctor for the box and believe it or not one was given the actual box and the other a copy of the ingredients. Both patients and doctors were shocked to see heavy metals in the shots.

Second, why did they make manufactures stop selling aluminum cookware? they discovered that it was causing severe brain damage after years of use. Any heavy metal will. So they tell you not to ingest mercury or aluminum in fish, which passes through your digestive track with all the gastric acid etc, but think it is safe to inject directly into a very young child's blood stream? Which by the way bypasses all the child's natural immunity barriers. Come on that's just common sense isn't it?

One more thing why is it that children who have never been vaccinated have no autism, like mine and the Amish, and those children who are seem to develop it very soon after being vaccinated?

I am not looking to argue with you only asking you to think. Do you trust Big Pharma? Vioxx was blamed for almost 27,000 deaths by sudden cardiac arrest. You think that didn't come up in the trials? of course it did but they hide those lies to get stuff on the market. I will try and find the video from 60 minutes with Mike Wallace where he asked the head of the American Pharmaceutical industry why they gave kids in this country the more dangerous form of a specific vaccine and not use the one they use in Britain and his answer was "that it is much cheaper to pay the millions in lawsuits than to retool the factories. When Mike Wallace almost lost his mind saying "but these are our children" the guy answered, "no, it's business". I will attempt to find it and post it if I can find it.

God Bless you and best of health to you all.

http://www.naturalnews.com/036417_Gl...rck_fraud.html check out this example

And they don't mutate.

It's guaranteed...

I've never asked my doctor to see the box my vaccination came in. I don't worry about tiny amounts of heavy metals that may or may not be contained in it.

Manufacturers didn't stop selling aluminum cookware, so your entire second paragraph is based in fallacy.

So these "powers" decide that you can't cook with aluminum because it's bad for you, but they put heavy metals in vaccines because it's bad for you?

WTF? They could just let us cook with aluminum and they could put less effort into poisoning the vaccines.

They do, but that's not usually an issue once flu season starts. The H3N2 flu going around is the exact same strain that went around in 2002-2003.

Exactly. H3N2 is always H3N2.

There ARE other non-prevalent strains and mutations though.

Just stay away from children. They are dirty dirty little ppl. Rolling around on the floor, touching everything that moves or doesn't move, putting their fingers in their mouth. It seems like ppl who have children or work with children get the flu or get sick 10x times more than ppl who don't.

Never used to get the flu shot. Rest of my family always did.

Then one year I got the flu and they didn't.

After 4 days of what I can only call "total paralysis", I've gotten my flu shot ever since.

Please quit with the fearmongering. Flu vaccines are not systematically poisoning our populace. Yes some doctors are paid to be biased. But that is not proof that the government is knowingly encouraging civilians to take something harmful. There is no government agenda behind vaccinations. Yes they have used vaccines in the past that had traces of things that could potentially be harmful. But today's vaccines are overwhelmingly safe. That doesn't mean that there are no dangers. Just that the dangers are so unlikely that the benefit outweighs the dangers. And there are plenty of independent sources that verify the safety of these vaccines that are in no way tied to the government.

I appreciate your point of view; it's never a bad thing to question what you're being told. However, the article you reference is itself referencing studies and quotes from 40 or 50 years ago. As far as I know, there is no valid, recognized case of Smallpox since 1977, thus invalidating many of the claims of "increased Smallpox mortality" claimed by the article you included. Keep in mind, too, that there are records of smallpox from as early as 1350 BC. I have a very hard time believing that the disappearance of smallpox was the result of any sort of natural process.

If it's indeed true that your children have never been sick in their entire lives, then I applaud you for raising them in a healthy environment; I also consider both you and them to be quite lucky. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much legitimate evidence of a "no-vaccine" solution working on a population or world-wide level.

As far as the increased incidences of allergies and asthma: it's difficult to factually deny those trends. However, attributing them to "increased use of vaccinations and medications" without concrete evidence is not only baseless, but potentially destructive to the health of the world. I would support any valid research that proves the status quo wrong, but where is the foundation for that research? The coincidence of the increased incidence of these unfortunate health problems and increased use of vaccines is hardly conclusive without definitive evidence to tie them together, and to spread that message without proof is completely irresponsible.

I'm glad that people like you question what the authorities are putting out as factual evidence, but there is absolutely no proof that the current view of disease is wrong until your counterpoint is made with as much absolute evidence.

Yeah, this I can agree with..

I have a question, Floridafan. You said your children have never had a single shot; does that mean you never got them vaccinated for anything as children?

Am I wrong in assuming that all viruses mutate a very small bit from even person to person?...

No. Hell no. The shot makes me sicker than a dog and I end up getting some other strain of the crap anyway.

I don't make my kids get them either. People these days are too gung ho about getting shit injected into their bodies if the government or some Big Pharma or Medical industry says they should.

Like the HPV shot. They tried to pressure me into getting it for my son who is 16. HELLO, that shot is just being introduced in the US and boys his age are the guinea pigs. No thank you. Same for that ridiculous swine flu shot a couple years ago.

Nope.

While I appreciate your response I would say, how can you expect to get funding for any kind of research that does not involve a "pharmaceutical answer". It won't happen. That is why you won't find any mainstream research about the dangers, they have a vested interest in only finding a drug related answer therefore no funding.

I would use a good friend of mine as an example. God rest his soul. He was from the KC area and had four Ph. D's in chemistry. Dr. Delta Gier. He left the "scientific world" because he got fed up with being denied funding when he would find answers to major conditions and be denied funding. The reason? They were vitamin based and therefore Big Pharma could not patent the drug and the research so they were not interested. He ended up in the "alternative" health sciences because he found them searching for the truth not just the profit.

I understand why people think the way they do. We are all bombarded with drug commercials all day long and by the time we are old enough to make a decision for ourselves we assume drugs are the answer.

One of the biggest reasons we don't have the mass deaths anymore from disease is we finally figured out simple sanitation. Believe it or not the Jewish Old Testament taught sanitation to the Jews. That is why they were accused many times in history of poisoning the water etc wherever they lived and were punished. They followed Torah and the Goys were too busy pissing upstream and drinking downstream. What I'm saying is sanitation has taken care of many of the dreaded diseases from the past.

As far as the rest of the world, I can't say. Too many children suffer from malnutrition and unsanitary conditions. I do know that there is a chiropractic hospital in Zimbabwe and they are having phenomenal results with AIDS patients there.

While I know I don't have all the answers I know Big Pharma isn't it. Click on the link in my other post and just see the lawsuits brought on by their deceptive ways of doing business. To them its all about profits, not health, it's been shown too many times to be otherwise.

One last thing You said "but there is absolutely no proof that the current view of disease is wrong until your counterpoint is made with as much absolute evidence"

Our current view of disease is the Germ Theory. Why after all this time is it not called the Germ Law? Because it is a theory nothing more. If it were true we would all be dead. Why did only 1/3 of Europe die of Bubonic Plague, 25 million died, 50 million lived. All were exposed so why? It's called immunity. That is why it makes more sense to keep your immunity strong. My children were not lucky, they were taken care of and we built there immunity in early childhood. We also fed them healthy food and kept their bodies functioning properly. Healthy people don't get sick, sick people get sick. We have been taught that if you feel OK you must be healthy. Wrong. symptoms are nothing more than a warning sign, much like the oil light in a car. You don't fix that with tape over the light, you check the oil pan to make sure your wife didn't rip it off going over a concrete stopper in a parking lot. Watch all the drug commercials, they all talk about getting rid of your symptoms not correcting the underlying cause of the disease. Just my opinion.

This.

Never a shot for any disease process. I do think my oldest son got a pain shot in his leg when he tore it up on a jet ski. They had to clean all the rocks and coral and stuff out and I knew the cause of his pain. His leg was torn up. So I said absolutely to the shot of pain meds. I knew the cause of the problem so it was no problem I knew his body could handle it.

My middle and youngest sons both had to have surgery due to wrestling injuries. One had a torn labrum in his shoulder and the other a severely fractured ankle. Both needed corrective surgery and they got the best. But I knew the cause of the problem.

In answer to the vaccine question, no none of my kids ever had any kind of vaccine for anything. I believe for healthy people don't need it and there are too many side affects for my liking.

The mutations are less virulent. That's why it's always the same culprits year after year.

Yes; first time... and I still got the flu.

Unfortunately the vaccine this year was for strains of H1N1 and H1N2; a different strain is going around (ILI?), which, of course, I picked up over Christmas.

Well I guess you're done for now.

You might as well face the fact that you'll be autistic and sick with mystery diseases for the rest of your life.

The cooking surface is usually covered with some nonstick surface.

It is your choice not to believe that heavy metals cause problems in the human brain. When your in your seventies you might wish you had rethought that choice. Just sayin......

Why risk it?

Unless you got some rogue vaccine, these are the strains covered. H3N2 is what's running rampant.

A/California/7/2009 (H1N1);
A/Victoria/361/2011 (H3N2);
B/Wisconsin/1/2010-like virus (from the B/Yamagata lineage of viruses).

So it's like making a drug that kills all Democrats.

That still leaves a lot of options out there...

No offense, but you're slipping into a laughable position now. To say there's no funding for actual effective medical research is incredibly ignorant. The pharmaceutical market certainly appreciates their pills that treat symptoms and require continued use. But to say that an actual effective treatment for something important would or could be denied or ignored because Big Pharma can't make as much money is an incredible stretch. The pharmaceutical market couldn't completely control it even if it wanted to.

And in the example with your friend, he didn't get funding because vitamins and other homeopathic items are not regulated. There's an important reason why it's not regulated. Because the entire homeopathic market is full of worthless junk that has never been proven to actually treat any condition. If it actually did work, then it wouldn't be a "Vitamin" or "Supplement". It's not labeled a "Vitamin" because the evil Pharm industry doesn't like it and can't make money on it. It's labeled "Vitamin" because it hasn't shown any actual proof of effectiveness.

Regarding "Germ Theory".. Please learn the difference between a scientific theory and a normal casual theory as it is used outside of the scientific world. They are vastly different. Being labeled as theory does not equate to not being true. Far from it. Scientific theories are explanations to explain what we know to be fact. Building a strong immune system does not depend on avoiding vaccinations. They can certainly be safely combined, and it happens all the time.

First of all, you don't have to "educate" me about Jews and their history; I am one. In fact, I find it ironic that you reference the Jews being accused of poisoning the water but ultimately being correct when there are so many people in this thread and the world who are accusing vaccines of poisoning the population without the evidence to support it. It's unfortunate that your friend had the experience he had (and there's no lack of selfish people in the pharmecutical industry) but anecdotes aren't proof of anything, as there are mountains of personal experiences supporting either side of the issue.

My issue with these anti-vaccine "studies" is not only in their lack of support from the professional world, but also their reliance on meaningless anecdotes and arguments based on entirely uncorrelated data. I haven't seen one of these studies yet that uses legitimate scientific method to create their samples to convince me of their lack of bias. Because of that, neither I nor anyone with a scientific background can take their research seriously.

Finally, as great as it is that secondary practices are making life better for AIDS patients in Africa, they're ultimately treating the symptoms and not the disease itself; their patients are doomed to to spread their virus and ultimately die from it until a cure is developed. Until then, the money is best spent researching cures to the virus and preventing its spread as much as possible through promotion of condoms and safe birthing practices for those already infected.

Oh, and is the nonstick coating safe? There are people who are hysterical about that too.

I'm sure heavy metals do cause problems, just not in tiny doses. People used to paint their houses with lead and we didn't see the mass amounts of alzheimers and autism you're so worried about.

Not to mention, what's the cooking spray can made of? OMG!

It's not like he'll remember how he got in that condition...or his name.

For all you mercury (thimerasol) freaks. DON'T EAT FISH!

25 micrograms of mercury per 0.5 mL of vaccine (one dose).

As a comparison, most commercial fish contain an average of 23 micrograms of mercury per 8 ounces of fish.

ROFL
I'm definitely a good driver. Yeah....yeah...uh oh, time for Wapner!

A friend of my old colliegate room mate published a paper about how that stuff is caused from cell phone use, true story. And it's published so it must be true....

Having done this for over 40 years I choose not to waste time on a mind that cannot or will not be willing to consider any other train of thought. All I would ask you is this. We as Americans represent approx 5% of the worlds population and take over 80% of the worlds prescription drugs. If Big Pharma were the answer we should rank number one in overall world health and yet we rank around 37th. Despite having more hospitals, nurses, MRI machines etc than the rest of the world.

Question: So hows that workin for ya?

Don't love on Large women that have a fever.

lol so true. I have a mother who was told in 1958 that she would be dead in 1971 and yet we have kept her alive and healthy all those years. We actually practice what we preach. Too each his own.

Is that wild fish or farmed?

Pretty good. I'm in great health and I rarely take anything.

So you're saying we are not seeing mass amounts of alzheimers and autism now? I must be missing something. Maybe its my mind!

Good choice, that's exactly what I'm saying. How bout the country as a whole?

By the way, what I really care about now that I'm retired is who are we going to end up with at QB? That is the important question.

I discount cholesterol drugs and fancy high blood pressure pills from the 80%. The original old-fashioned BP pill still works amazingly well, it's just doesn't buy lunch for the doctor with pharma dollars.

I think you may have missed the point. People used to be much, much, much more exposed to the chemicals you're so hysterical about, but there wasn't mass amounts of alzheimers and autism.

Does it matter? I'm pretty sure the fish farmers aren't putting mercury in the water.

My company relocated our Delray, FL division to KS. My equal that moved here was told he could fish all he wanted in the Atlantic waters, but limit eating the fish to once or twice per week because of the mercury.

It's probably wild. I bet farm raised fish is much lower.

A. People such as yourself get so enamored with "thinking outside the box" that you are unable to consider the side of the debate that is backed with an enormous amount of research. Thus, people with your frame of mind are not worth arguing with.

B. We rank 37th by what measure? I've seen a similar statistic in terms of mistakes in medical practice (which has many different reasons, but seems to be popular in the debate against the competence of our doctors), but if you have a measure that accurately quantifies life expectancy and quality of life as a result of healthcare, I'd like to see it.

you aren't very bright are you? 'MURICA

Great argument, bro. Keep sucking that bong day and night, it appears to be doing wonders for your cognitives.

That I can agree with. Those weasels continue to snake into our offices, and we continue accept the perks they push. I don't like it, but it's the way it is. Trust me, the profession is not perfect.

LMAO

I didn't miss the point I am saying that's what we have it all now and the questions is why?

Look, I know I don't have all the answers its just there is so much empirical evidence to ignore. So it behooves each of us to research it for ourselves and then make an educated decision, not just take the word of people who have something to gain from our lack of information. As I said I have been in this for over 40 years and got out of a wheelchair at 21 when they said I never would. Then they told me I wouldn't live to be 30. I am now 62 and for the most part healthy except for a bad set of wheels and a bad neck the result of severe spinal cord injury in the Marine Corps.

I didn't listen to the "take this drug crowd" and when I go to the VA they ask me how are you still alive and functioning and I tell them and they are so narrow minded they are stuck in their stuff they say that can't be it. They did the same thing with my mother. They told her she'd die in 1971 and she is still alive today and when I asked her endocrinologist if she'll go in the books as the longest living patient with her disease he says nope. I ask why, he says cause of the alternative healthcare lifestyle. They are every bit as narrow minded and dishonest as any group I have ever dealt with.

And I'm saying that logically you can't point a finger at a tiny amount of mercury in a vaccine and credibly tell me that that's why.

I'm not opposed to other trains of thought at all. I'm just completely unconvinced by your information.

I don't believe for a second that Big Pharm is the answer. I'm actually not a fan of the commercial pharmaceutical industry. I just don't think they're intentionally causing harm with some grand conspiracy. They screw up plenty, and have caused their share of fatalities. But the scare tactics you're using to portray them are not accurate.

Our overall health ranking is due to many factors that have little to do with Big Pharm or vaccines. A great majority of our health problems are self inflicted, due to people's choice of poor hygiene, poor eating habits, and lack of exercise. You're trying to make the case that our heath system is the cause of our poor health. But that's just not true. The problem is that people choose to damage their own health, and then cannot or will not change their bad habits. Or for many, they cannot afford it. But for those who choose to live healthy and can afford health care, they have access to the best in the world. We have more hospitals, nurses, and MRI machines for sure. But those are not readily accessible to anyone and everyone that needs it. And that simple fact is infinitely more responsible for our overall poor health than any of the unsubstantiated stuff you've been talking about.

The rapification of my rep by the resident stoner "bump" continues...

37th by the World Health Organizations measure.

Our doctors are the best in the world along with Israel's when it comes to emergency medicine. Gunshot wounds, massive heart attack etc.

They suck at healthcare. Or why we ended up having that massive heart attack when the rest of the world does not have the heart disease that we have in this country.

Health care is not disease care. Look at cancer deaths. When Nixon declared the war on cancer the number of cancer deaths is just about the same now as it was then. So where did all the research money go and what did it get us? Look up the numbers from a reputable source not affiliated with the drug industry.

In the 70's I was called names by other doctors because I told my patients to eat right and get plenty of exercise. They told me that diet and exercise had nothing to do with it. If you don't remember that time or don't believe it ask someone older they'll remember. My how their attitudes have changed.

It's certainly diagnosed more because we know more about the conditions. But you can't really compare the actual numbers because we haven't been accurately diagnosing it for very long. How many diagnosis of "Madness" from a couple hundred years ago would be diagnosed as alzheimers today? How many Autistic kids were put into institutions 100 years ago for being "Crazy" or even "Possessed"?

Responses in bold.

cell phones, people. cell phones and aliens

BTW, I am sorry to hear about your accident and congratulations on your improved health.

Also, thanks for your service. Though we disagree, I still appreciate your sacrifice.

Originally Posted by Floridafan
37th by the World Health Organizations measure.
Don't really feel like looking it up, but it likely has to do with poor eating habits and lack of exercise rather than the incompetence of our healthcare system. Have you see the rapid increase of obesity in all 50 states on the cdc's website? It's shocking.

Our doctors are the best in the world along with Israel's when it comes to emergency medicine. Gunshot wounds, massive heart attack etc.

They suck at healthcare. Or why we ended up having that massive heart attack when the rest of the world does not have the heart disease that we have in this country.
Obesity.

Health care is not disease care. Look at cancer deaths. When Nixon declared the war on cancer the number of cancer deaths is just about the same now as it was then. So where did all the research money go and what did it get us? Look up the numbers from a reputable source not affiliated with the drug industry.
Cancer research has come a long way, and we are much better at treating it then we were at that time. I don't have time, nor do I think it is worth it to look up those numbers (because I'm lazy). But if that is the case, it's likely due to an aging population and the increased incidence of cancer in aging individuals.

In the 70's I was called names by other doctors because I told my patients to eat right and get plenty of exercise. They told me that diet and exercise had nothing to do with it. If you don't remember that time or don't believe it ask someone older they'll remember. My how their attitudes have changed.
Your anecdotal experience is fine, but it holds no weight in a discussion where the individuals are not here to defend themselves, nor is there a witness to confirm this encounter occurred. While it may have happened, it's utterly worthless without proof.

If it was not the responsibility of your doctor to tell you how to get well and stay well whose is it?

Thank you for your thank you, was that redundant?

I wish you blessings and good health and a new QB for the new year!!!

your parents

Ironically, no. I am suffering from the flu right now!:mad:

It is very much the responsibility of your doctor, that we can agree on. But physicians can only do so much for their patients. They can't force their patients to adhere to their advice. Now, that does not mean we are not to blame as well. We are taught (at least at my school) that patients who do not follow our advice is our fault.

Same to you. Keep going strong. That certainly is remarkable that you beat the odds.