\thread

Dude you need to take Peytons' cock out of your mouth again.
Remember the Donko playoff loss a little over a couple months ago?
If you don't you need to go back and revisit that thread.
Peyton Manning is the biggest choke artist the game has ever seen.

But that play did happen! You can't play what ifs

Tom isn't overrated man. He's got 3 rings and 5 SB appearances to Peyton's 2 and 1 win and 1 all time choke INT in the super bowl

the donk fans are curiously missing from this thread

8 one and dones is pretty sad. His nuts obviously shrivel up a bit in postseason play. Greatest regular season QB of all time though.

Isnt Tom a good example of how it takes a team to win a SB though?
He won all his rings in the early 2000s, yet no one could argue that Tom Brady 2003 > Tom Brady 2012.

He has improved as a player and despite the fact he has played his best ball of his career the past 5 years, he does not have any rings over that span.

He had defensive help in the early 2000s, now we see that even the great Tom Brady cannot carry a team by himself
This does not make him overrated, nor does it show how his individual accomplishments should always translate into playoff and SB success

Football is a team sport, and Peyton Manning is a victim of overall piss poor team building by Bill Polian as much as he is a victim of his own chokes.

The fact that he had inferior teams may well be the cause of his choking.

It has to be far more difficult knowing full well that you have to be the guy in ecery game.

I love peyton as a qb. But of his 9 playoff wins including superbowl. 4 of those have come against kc and denver. Whom happen to be more consistent chokers. He will retire as one of the top 3 all time qbs. But he for some reason loves the 1 and done. That might be a single record also.

Not a 3 time super bowl MVP...

...and in a nutshell, this.

And this.

The New England Patriots featuring Tom Brady won 3 super bowls.

The Tom Brady's featuring the New England Patriots hasn't won in a decade.

Just because Mark Sanchez has playoff wins doesn't make him a big game QB.

A QB gets you there by always being consistent but a playoff record isn't indicative of who's the better big game QB...

When Peyton needed his kicker to win a game Vanderjagt pushed it 40 yards right...

Tom won 3 super bowls on kicks by the greatest kicker ever.

No one on this site is capable of critical thinking apparently.

In Peyton's 11 playoff losses his team has averaged 16 points. Mother****in defense.

Damn. You're right. Joe Flacco > Peyton Manning

Thanks for putting words in my mouth, but I never said that. You are the one trying to make excuses for Peyton, while ignoring that he blows kong dong in the playoffs.

OMG YOU REALLY THINK THIS! YOU IDIOT!

Drew Brees > Peyton Manning > Joe Flacco

I dont often agree with hootie but cmon.

Flacco is good but hes not peyton manning. Hes a beneficiary of anquan boldin turning into calvin johnson for a postseason. They wont make the playoffs next year.

Youre right. Hes not. He actually wins playoff games.

Kind of funny and interesting to read some of this...

2012 was the season of all seasons for Flacco, there's no doubt. He went from being doubted and debated as 'just a guy outside that elite level' to being a phenom with a huge new contract after the SB and MVP.

Kudos to him - he's earned it.

Let's see what happens now that the team looks vastly different. The Ravens have always been a pretty balanced team, but a huge focus of their success was defense. The offense really has to pick it up which is going to but a different light on him - one similar to some of the other top guys.

I don't care which QB is elite or better than another at this point... there are about 5-7 "gotta have QBs" if you think you want to have a shot at the SB - he's one of them, so is Peyton. I'll let the rest of the chips fall as they may.

The only thing that stat says to me is Manning managed to carry a lot of really bad Colts teams into the playoffs. Same thing Elway did under Dan Reeves. I was amazed at how much Manning lifted up the Broncos last year and just missed by a few seconds beating a much better Ravens team.

Lifted up the Bronco's? How so? They were a play-off winning team with Teabow at QB the year before. If anything, Manning hurt the Bronco's.

Exactly.

I don't think they go anywhere this year.

Boldin was a beast in the playoffs.

PM makes people better around him, I don't that the same for Flacco.

Peyton will be 37 and has a 9-11 post-season record.

Flacco will be 28 and has a 9-4 post-season record.

Would you really choose Peyton over Flacco at this point?

I'll remind you that Flacco also just missed the SB last season because of a dropped pass.

Lol lol lol lol lol

2x. Sorry.

And? Peyton had Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne in 19 of his 20 playoff games.

So it is your contention that Joe Flacco is more valuable than Peyton Manning?

Oh nevermind. You're the guy that thinks Kobe at one point was better than 2011-2013 LeBron so your opinion carries no weight

I don't think anyone is saying that Peyton is better than Flacco. They're saying at this point in their careers they'd take Flacco, AND that Peyton is pretty overrated (especially in the playoffs). Meanwhile, you continue to fellate him, and that's totally fine. But you're ignoring the overwhelming amount of evidence in this thread that says that Peyton isn't as good as you want him to be.

I really like Elvis, be he's not Geno Smith.

He makes great commercials tho!

so a top 5 QB (and this is a conservative statement) in the HISTORY of the NFL is overrated?

Got it.

You guys are brilliant.

Just like Peyton Manning had NOTHING to do with his one Super Bowl win.

GENO SMITH>Peyton "choker" Manning! :D

There ya go

He almost has as many Lombardis

this isn't really even about Peyton Manning to me...I don't care about that. Fine, he sucks. He's a choker. He's terrible. He hasn't won a super Bowl in 6 years. Yada yada yada

No.

This is about the fact this board has suddenly elevated Joe ****ing Flacco to ELITE status because Rahim Moore made the worst play in the history of the NFL and then the Ravens went on to win the Super Bowl and Flacco was MVP.

I get it. He played well for a 3 game stretch in a big moment. I get that. He deserved it.

HOWEVER, he isn't elite. He isn't any better than Jay Cutler. In fact, I'd take Jay Cutler over Joe Flacco. Joe Flacco needs to play a season where he doesn't have 6+ Mark Sanchez games. I want to see the Ravens be elite and be elite because of Joe Flacco.

That was not an elite team this year. It was a team that got hot at the right time and had the "us against the world" mentality and the Ray Lewis back story...oh and Rahim Moore.

The fact we have some on this board saying they'd trade our whole draft for Joe ****ing Flacco and his $120M OUTRAGEOUS contract is ridiculous.

The dude is an average NFL QB with superstar ability but reverts to Sanchez-esque QB'ing every other ****ing game (especially on the road).

I get that his postseason play in the last two seasons has been pretty much good overall. That's fine. I get it.

But every ****ing regular season game counts too...only 6 of 16 teams make the playoffs...seeding usually matters in the playoffs.

He just isn't consistent enough to be considered elite. He still has to make that jump. If he leads the Ravens to a 12-4 season and he plays EVEN ALEX SMITH WITH THE 49ERS LEVEL OF FOOTBALL, maybe I'll elevate him to elite if he has another elite postseason where he plays game changing football.

Until then...he's just a dime a dozen NFL QB with a big arm and a big contract. Whoowee.

if Joe Flacco played the way he did in the regular season for the Broncos this year the Broncos probably would have won 5 games.

So uh, yeah. I get the fact that once upon a time Mark Sanchez played a really good postseason game. I realize Joe Flacco had 2.5 really good postseason games this year. I realize that despite his 44 QBR against the Pats in 2011, he had one really good drive to end the game that ended up being a dropped Super Bowl berth.

I watch these games. I know.

I also realize that Joe Flacco simply doesn't pass the eye test, and that the Ravens were a 10 win team this year and if they had Tony Romo as their QB they probably would have won 13.

In conclusion, Joe Flacco isn't good. He still needs a season where he carries his team to a playoff berth. When that happens, maybe I'll change my mind.

My smart money is on the Ravens finishing with 8 wins this year.

Slightly off topic, who's the bigger choke artist? Favre or Peyton?

Both have 1 ring, both lost in another SB. Both recently threw interceptions in their most recent playoff appearances that involved both QBs trying throw across their bodies and ultimately ended up costing their teams.

I think Tom Brady is the biggest choke artist in all honesty. He let Peyton Manning win his one and only Super Bowl by giving up a 21-3 lead and then ending the game with an INT when they were down by 4. That was irresponsible and terrible choking. Also, his team the year they were 18-0 was way, way, way too good to lose in the Super Bowl to a team they had already beat by 2 scores in the regular season. The fact he didn't show up in the biggest game of his life? Unacceptable.

Oh and...really this year? Getting crushed at home to a team that the inferior Peyton Manning had already beaten the game before if not for Rahim Moore? Not being able to convert on 3rd downs? Not being able to get the ball in the end zone. Again losing to a team (and by a wide margin) when he had a halftime lead? Disgusting.

Brady is just a huge choker who only won because of cheating and spygate. The fact Goodell had to destroy that damning evidence for the "good of the game" leads me to believe Brady simply can't win the big one.

(by the way, see how easy that is? everyone can be a choker...)

We all know you are

Favre. He flopped for Strahan, and looked remarkably shitty doing it

Per usual, any time there is a discussion involving Peyton, Hootie gets off on a tangent and forgets the point.

Fact: Flacco is more successful and makes fewer boneheaded plays in the post-season than Peyton.

This is interesting looking at Flacco's first 5 years vs Manning's first 5 years. Obviously the big difference is that Manning threw 328 more passes (greater than a half a season) in his first 5 years.

Manning: 1749/2817 (62.1%), 20618 yds (7.32ypa, 6.7 AY/A), 138:100 TD:INT, 42-38 record, 16 game winning drives, 85.8 QB Rating
Flacco: 1507/2489 (60.5%), 17633 yds (7.1ypa, 6.9 AY/A), 102:56 TD:INT, 54-26 record, 15 game winning drives, 86.3 QB rating

Manning threw a TD once every 20.4 passes and an INT once every 28 passes.
Flacco threw a TD once every 24.4 passes and an INT once every 44.5 passes.

Manning had 0 playoff wins in his first 5 seasons. Flacco has 9. I don't put as much credence into this as some, wins do tell more about a team in general for the most part.

I think it's safe to say if Flacco continues to grow, he'll be pretty effin good.

LMAO 3 SB, and 17 total post-season wins disagree with you.

LMAO

I mean, it was really nice of him to do that for Mr. Gap-tooth.

I bet Hootie has nightmares about Rahim Moore.

Yes.

The OT int for Peyton was eerily similar and fantastic to watch.

comparing Flacco's first 5 years to Peyton's first 5 years is a joke...

Flacco came into a PASSING league...Peyton came into a RUNNING league.

I lost a whole generation of children watching it, if you catch my drift.

what's Tom's record post spygate? SUPER CURIOUS. Please include Super Bowl record as well.

Then an elite passer should have just absolutely shredded defenses in a "RUNNING" league, while you would expect a mediocre passer to struggle against defenses in a "PASSING" league.

I assume it would probably be OK to make this comparison if Peyton blew Flacco away, though.

Excuses. Keep them coming.

I don't need ****ing excuses.

the idea that Joe Flacco is even in the same league as a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady is ****ing laughable. It's the dumbest ****ing thing I've ever read in my life...and King posts on this board.

2012: 13-5
2011:15-4
2010: 14-3
2009: 10-7
2008: :(
2007: 17-1 (Spygate was after the 1st game of the year, no?)

They have to be messing with you. There is no way that anyone actually thinks this around here.

Brady and Manning have 13 and 15 years in this league, respectively. I wouldn't rush to put Flacco in that class, but he's certainly on his way there if he keeps this up and continues to improve.

I was talking about postseason record...

how good is it since Spygate?

If Peyton were the beneficiary of 3 super bowls from a cheating scandal so significant that the commissioner felt it necessary to destroy all evidence to not further damn the league...

I doubt everyone would have simply forgotten about it like they did with Tom Terrific.

2012:1-1
2011:2-1
2010:0-1
2009: 0-1
2007:2-1

Peyton:
2012: 0-1
2011: LMAO
2010: 0-1
2009: 2-1
2008: 0-1
2007: 0-1

I even gave Peyton an extra year. Unfortunately for him, Ron Rivera exists.

Yeah.

He's certainly on his way by having one good postseason because of Rahim Moore when his team wasn't even willing to give him a franchise QB contract before the season because his entire career has been completely mediocre with some flashes of good play mixed in with a ton of Sanchez and mediocrity.

The idea that Joe Flacco is an elite NFL QB is a ****ing sham. He isn't. Not yet. He hasn't proven a thing other than he can benefit from the worst play in NFL history and a Brady choke job in the postseason (lol).

Honestly though...

Try and use some critical thinking. JUST PRETEND THAT MOORE PICKS THAT BALL OFF AND THE RAVENS SEASON ENDS.

DOES ANYONE ON THIS BOARD CONSIDER JOE FLACCO AN ELITE QB UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES? IF THE RAVENS HANDED HIM A $120M CONTRACT AFTER THAT LOSS TO DENVER WOULDN'T EVERYONE GO..."WTF?"

I bet you that, had they lost to Denver...Joe Flacco would have been tagged and perhaps traded for picks while Baltimore overwent a full rebuilding year.

They are going to regret signing him to that deal. He simply isn't a QB that can contend for Super Bowl's year in and year out. He's Alex Smith with a better arm and less accuracy and more inconsistency.

Is he better than Cassel? Yes.

Can he win games if he has an elite team around him? Yes.

Can he carry a team like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers? NO. BIG NO.

Tom has more post season wins in the past 2 years than Peyton does in the last 5 he's played. LMAO

where is the 2008: ROFL

bias

you can't ROFL at a Peyton injury and not ROFL at a Tom injury

I can no longer debate this topic with someone who displays such bias. It's irresponsible.

Yes. And those wins led to a HUGE CHOKE JOB THROW to a wide open Wes Welker that would have won a Super Bowl. Instead Brady made a TERRIBLE throw and Welker couldn't haul it in and they lost. That's 100% choke.

and then this year...my God...that was embarrassing. Even Peyton Manning had the Ravens beat...Brady shit his pants AGAIN against a Flacco team except this year Lee Evans didn't bail him out...

Tom Brady is the biggest postseason choker I've ever seen in my life. Shit, he had Peyton beat BADLY Peyton's Super Bowl year and Tom choked the game away majorly...that was embarrassing.

I just hate watching chokers play in the postseason so Tom is real hard to watch.

LMAO.

http://zenstoves.net/Pots/AntiGravity.jpg

meet

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/so...background.jpg

I respect Tom for his great regular season play and for the ability to play under the best coach to ever coach the game...that's fun to watch.

It's just those wretched choke jobs post spygate that make him really tough for me to cheer for...he could have won 6 or 7 Super Bowls but his postseason performances have just been abysmal. I just don't understand why, post cheating with all of that cheater tape that told him what defense he would be facing pre-snap, a guy with so much charisma and so much going for him always chokes it away in the biggest of moments.

It's a big flaw on his resume...Tom is just a big choker. I bet he's a good guy, though.

The statistics largely say otherwise.

Oh no I can admit Peyton has had some spotty postseason performances. One could argue that, despite always having to carry his team on his back leading to wins only coming when he performs perfectly, some of his postseason performances have been very lackluster.

However, in terms of choking he isn't even in Tom Brady's league.

Just like Tom Brady isn't in Peyton Manning's league in terms of QB'ing.

Excellent troll work.

Not really...post spygate he can never win the big one. I can't argue for spygate Tom because he was cheating. His team was cheating. So those 3 Super Bowl's can't count for this argument...Peyton Manning never had the benefit of knowing what defense he was going to face via signals acquired from cheating pre-snap.

Since spygate, Tom has done nothing but choke away a perfect season, give Peyton a Super Bowl in a game he was winning by 3 scores, give Eli two Super Bowl wins because he couldn't get it done against a little pressure, give ChiefsPlanet the idea Flacco is elite because he was too nervous to beat him this year at home...get blown out in years previous while being heavy favorites to the Jets and Ravens...

It's just embarrassing, really. It's hard to watch. A guy with so much talent being such a choker?

Why Tom, why?

Who had the most success in the post-season during their 1st 5 seasons?

Pretend Lee Evans catches a ball that hits him in the hands in 2011 (well, early 2012) and the Ravens go to the Super Bowl. So that's two big plays in two years that could have changed the fate of the Ravens, for better or worse. Either way, they were there two years in a row on the cusp of making the Super Bowl.

At the end of the day, Flacco statistically is about equal to Manning/Brady after his first 5 seasons. You've seen that. We'll see where he ends up in the record books 5-8 years from now, especially now that he's sucking up a ton of cap space. I don't think it's crazy to think he can end up in the conversation with those guys though, like you do. And let's be clear, I don't think he's there yet, but his resume after 5 years is very unique (in a good way).

Yeah Harrison, Wayne, James, Clark, Freeney, Mathis, and Sanders are talentless hacks

hard to troll facts

Tom Brady has gone nearly a decade without a Super Bowl win despite being the favorites going into the postseason to with the Super Bowl almost every year.

He's just a pure, flat out choker. With all of the talent that surrounds him both in the coaching department and personnel...it's just a shame that their leader is such a choke artist.

Oh, the irony LMAO

lolololololollllllllll

lollllllllll

lolololol

I DON'T CARE ABOUT STATS. I DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT HIS STATS TELL YOU.

HE IS NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE AS TOM BRADY OR PEYTON MANNING.

After watching Aaron Rodgers for 5 games, I was like, "damn, this guy is good."

Never in the 5 years of watching Joe Flacco have I ever gone, "damn, this guy might be one of the best ever some day."

NOT ONCE.

NOT ONE TIME.

So you can take your stats of a MEDIOCRE AT BEST QB and shove them up your sensitive butthole.

What do the stats suggest to you from Tony Romo's first 5 years as NFL QB? DO THEY SUGGEST HE'S GOING TO BE THE BEST QB EVER!!!

STATS TELL THE STORY! I HEARD IT ON CHIEFSPLANET.

A ROOKIE 1998 QB FIRST 5 YEARS COMPARE TO A GUY WHO WAS DRAFTED IN 2008. THAT'S HOW YOU DETERMINE WHO IS ELITE AND WHO ISN'T ELITE.

MATT CASSEL HAS A HIGHER QB RATING THAN JOHN ELWAY.

Oh yeah!

ELITE

ERA COMPARISONS FOR THE WIN

Damn, I've never seen a rival fan go balls deep on a guy like this

if you're so dense that you can't see I'm totally trolling the idea Tom Brady is a choker then you're just a dipshit

the idea that a QB is either a choker when his team loses, or a hero when his team wins is ****ing stupid and a ****ing fairytale myth that ChiefsPlanet.com and the casual fan lives by

watch a ****ing game you god damn nimrods...

and then ****ing tell me JOE FLACCO has the same career arc as PEYTON MANNING AND TOM BRADY

CHRIST ON A ****ING SALTINE