I guess you're just a better fan than me.

You know, you might be right. Jack still does work in Hunt's organization in some capacity. He might just be the common demoninator here which exposes why KC hasnt given a SB to its fans.

Dammit Steadman!

And it was reported he made $30 mil in profits last year.

I think it does all go back to the owner. If he wanted to win a S.B. then we would come a lot closer to it.

Dude ... I don't understand you the Chiefs owe the fans 8 games ... is that the only games you watch. You sound like either a young squirt just starting out being a fan or not a real fan ... I mean you sound like a fan who doesn't care about winning. That is what sports is all about ... winning .... not just how they play the games...

That really depends on how things go. Ive been really, REALLY disgusted with the Chiefs organization as of late.

When it becomes pretty clear that the organization cares more about filling the stands and selling tickets than winning a championship, that leads me to believe that I should probably start cheering for another team if I want to be seeing my favorite team with the Superbowl.

The Chiefs were DEAD F'ING LAST in nearly every single solitary defensive stat last offseason. And what happened? They brought in no reputable new players in an offseason that had some quality free agents, only bargain basement pickups like Lional Dalton.

Clearly, they werent interested in improving the defense, or they wouldnt have signed back all their shitty starters instead of going out and acquiring some real talent.

I dont just watch the Chiefs to see them win 7 or 8 games, just for something to burn 3 hours on a Sunday. Im looking for that Playoff run and Superbowl victory. This team has had the offense to get that done for a few seasons now. And after a 13-3 season, CARRYING that pathetic defense, they still didnt see fit to buy any players to get it any better. Clearly, to me that says that winning a championship isnt high priority. Making a profit is, and that pisses me the F off. The Fans dont pay for their tickets just for something to do. They want to see them win a championship, and the cheap ass front office not doing anything to make that happen is a slap in the face to the fans. How they could just stand pat on defense when it was so bad.....its beyond my comprehension.

We had ONE guy in for an interview, and that was Troy Vincent, and he left without the Chiefs even making him an offer.


You might watch the Chiefs as a hobby, some passing thing where you dont really give a shit if they win a playoff game or not, but there are those of us who want to see the Chiefs win that superbowl that they are capable of if the Front Office would just lay out a little bit of cash to bring some capable defenders in here before this amazing offense is broken up by retirements.

One would think that 13 years without a playoff victory would be motivation for the Front Office to try to get just a bit more done in the Free Agency than what they have done in the past. Clearly, the past approaches have not worked, nor will they work in the future.


The offense probably has 1-2 more years left to perform at this high of a level, and then its going to be rebuilding from offense to defense completely, and the hopes of a superbowl become even more remote.

Anyone with any sense knows that the clock is ticking on this Chiefs team to win a SB. The time is NOW to get that defense up to standard and get this offense the help that it deserves. Its been carrying the team for 3 years now. Time to reward them with a little F'ing help so that they can actually be rewarded for performing so well, and not see all their hard work an awesome performances go down the toilet because the defense couldnt stop a high school JV team.


F the cap in 3 years. Its going to be a major rebuilding process by that time anyway, given the age of our offense. Get the players in NOW, and GO FOR IT. The fans have given the Front office enough profit with no return. Its time that we get at least something that shows the Front office would in fact like to win a SB, and not just make a profit.

If I was an NFL owner, I can assure you I would not. I'm very competitive and not winning a SB in 35 years, or a playoff game in 12, would eat the shit out of me to the point where I would spend money necessary - esp. if my name was on the AFC champions trophy and I was close to passing on. It would be worth something to me to hold a trophy with my name on it one last time.

His livelyhood? You are really, really reaching now. He was hired to do a job as a GM, made a 5-year plan promise, and is in year 16 (i could be off here) and has been to one AFC championship game.

They just gave the listing of past few years of 2nd round picks. Some scouts need their asses fired.

Trade for McGlockton
Kevin Lockett
Mike Cloud
Bartee
Freeman
Vermiel
Kawika Mitchell
Siavii and Wilson.


I do honestly believe a Chiefsplanet Poll winner could perform as well for the team than the average Chiefs 2nd round pick. It sure makes the Surtain thing look better, given past results.

So watching the Chiefs for you is not a hobby, what exactly is it besides a form of entertainment?

Im curious...

Free agency is like Christmas for titus and nmt1. This board brings them so much fund and joy from March until the draft.

Glad we settled that.

:)

There have been 3 decent picks in the last TWENTY years. I posted this the other day. Okoye, Tongue, Grunhard.

That's it. That's why I'm in favor of trading a #2 for Surtain.

I wouldn't see it any differently, because I am a fan.

I'm not saying Lamar isn't a fan of his own team, but he isn't as fanatical as most fans.

If I had billions of dollars and a team that was making a profit every year but wasn't seeing the on-field results, I would inject cash into the system and take those shots occasionally. I would take those shots especially if I saw where the problem was on the team and knew that it was fixable.

He doesn't need to turn into Daniel Snyder, but seizing the opportunity when you are so close only makes sense to me.

nmt1 is a little whippersnapper who doesnt watch any of the games.

If Lamar doesn't like the risk involved with satisfying his customers, he needs to get into a different business. Today's fan expects more than they did 20 years ago, and the price they pay warrants it.

You honestly have no idea how much Im enjoying this...

That would explain the sold out stadiums today vs. the 13k annually when I was there.

They're getting PAID for this???

Yes I do. :)

ChristAlmighty.... That is a really, really,really,really, bad list.

Bartee? In the 2nd?

dont worry, it's a pittance...they said they didnt have any money.

AMEN BRO...one rep heading your way.

No, winning explains that.

How do explain the waiting list for season tickets in the 90s, but no waiting list the last three years? A few years back a local TV station almost had to buy out unsold tickets to avoid a blackout. Did that ever happen in the 90s?

The fans are seeing ticket price increases every year. If you think we'll continue to fill Arrowhead through eternity as an 8-8 team, you're drinking too much kool-aid.

And yet, the Broncos always find a way to pay their apologists.


:p

They get a dime for every offseason thread about how the Chiefs don't care about winning. That's the real reason why Lamar can't sign free agents, all of his money has gone to Titus.

What he said!!!!

At least I now know who's the arbiter of true fandom ...

I can sleep better knowing that if someone doesn't call Lamar Hunt cheap, blame Carl for 35 years of failure, or whine about ticket prices, he or she is not a real fan. I mean, there's no way that person could care about the team, is there?

MM
~~:shake:

I get a regular paycheck whether I defend him or not.

That's the benefit of reporting directly to the CAO.

How dare you question my fandom!

I'm glad you'd be a better owner than Lamar Hunt. Get yourself a couple of hundred mil and buy a team.

Is Carl's livelyhood not being GM of the Chiefs? Regardless of what he said, Lamar Hunt signs his paychecks. It's Lamar's team and he'll hire and fire whoever he'd like. Pretty simple.

Shut the hell up, nmt1, you're not a REAL FAN™.

Feh...Im not the one buying tickets or going to the games. If you're going given your criticisms, I think it's pretty clear who's 'drinking the kool aid'

If you think that Lamar would / will ever fire Carl Peterson, you're kidding yourself.

ehp...secret's out...I have eleventy billion of Lamars money.

I honestly have no idea how much risk Lamar is willing to endure. Though I do know it would be stupid for him to sell the Chiefs. It's one of his biggest money makers, I'd guess.
I don't care what today's fan expects. They pay for 8 football games and they get 8 football games. They don't pay for guaranteed Superbowl victories.

:rolleyes:



Nothing is guaranteed. Any fool knows that. But the organization should at least "make it look like" the organization cares more about making a profit, and actually wants to try for a superbowl.

Its not too much to ask.

I don't think people are just paying for 8 games, they're paying to see a competitive team play 8 games, they're paying to see what they expect to be a winner. There's a reason ticket sales suffer when you're losing.

IMO the problem w/ Carl is a conflict of interests. Yes, he's the GM... but he's also the President and CEO. I think there needs to be separation between the football administrative functions (GM) and the business-side of the operation (Pres/CEO).

The GM's responsibility is to provide the team with coaches and players capable of winning... hopefully, with the sincere goal of winning the SB. He negotiates the contracts and ensures the team is capable of keeping it's "core" players (and coaches).

Where the conflict arises is on the business side. The Pres & CEO works for one purpose: the bottom line. Profitability, first & foremost.

What <i>I</i>, and a significant portion of the Chiefs fanbase sees, is more emphasis put on profitability, rather than success. Emphasis for success MUST exist, or profitability suffers... however there is a fine line one can walk to maximize profits w/o spending a lot to guarantee success. That's the tightrope act I see CP & the Chiefs FO walking.... they've been doing so since about 1999.

I thought we hadn't won anything in years.

I don't expect you to fill the stadium if you're not satisfied with the product. I've said this many times: If you don't like it, stop going to the games and stop buying merchandise. It's the only way you're going to have an effect on the Chiefs.
Look at it this way. There's a very popular restaurant near your home. So popular that everyone in your city wants to go there every Friday night. You live close enough to get there every Friday before the rest of the crowd. The food REALLY, REALLY sucks in the restaurant and makes you sick when you eat there. Do you keep going just because you live close enough to beat the crowd or do you find somewhere else to go because the food sucks and it makes you sick?

I've been saying what you said there for years HC. Carl's been tremendously successful as President/CEO, but as a GM he's left something to be desired. And I think there is a real conflict between the two sides of his job.

Actually, I don't think the problem is just carl, I'm not sure the entire player evaluation side of the organization couldn't use a complete overhaul. We've not done well with drafting for the last decade, and have had mixed results with trades and free agency. There's been an awful lot of failure in that arena, without much success to balance it.

I'd like to think we're due some good things, that maybe all the negative will eventually flip, but I'm too cynical to think the world works like that. I don't believe in luck.

And I also don't think Carl is singularly responsible for everything. I think Lamar should shoulder some blame for his conservative nature, not being willing (at times) to open his checkbook in terms of bonus money. While at other times he's been quite generous. He's where, ultimately, the issue of profit over winning falls, in my book. And I don't necessarily fault him for that, from a business perspective I understand, but as a fan...

He may and he may not. Neither you nor I have any control over that.

So it's OK not to win the Superbowl if you "make it look like" you want to?

Do the Chiefs guarantee 8 competitive games?

Damn...
I thought this thread might have something to do with Chiefs news.
:banghead:

To quote Hank Hill:

Yep.

I honestly wonder how Colts fans feel. Their team has followed an almost IDENTICAL path since they moved to Indy.

So you think that Carl's job is on the line? Is that what you're telling me?

He's a GM of a team that hasn't won a playoff game in 13 years. If his "livelyhood" was on the line, something tells me that it would of been taken away from him a long time ago if that was the case.

But it's not. Carl has more job security than GM's that make the playoffs (Seattle for one).

The NFL is a performance based business, but that theory doesn't apply to the Chiefs. They keep defensive players around when they don't get the job done, and they kept CP around about 5 years too long.

I wish I had a couple hundred million to buy a team. I guess I expect more than you do from Lamar Hunt.

Nothing is guaranteed.

But there is that nice, bitter illusion that we Chiefs fans have every season.....

Whats that called again?


Oh yeah.


Hope.

That's not the question. The question is whether you're ('you' in a general sense) willing to pay for 8 games if they're not competitive, which they have not been for the greater part of the last decade, like it or not.

I certainly wouldn't. I wouldn't pay just to see the Chiefs play a game I didn't think they could win. And I think the longer this string of mediocrity goes, the more difficulty they'll have filling the stands.

Which is ultimately why I don't believe they don't care about winning, and only about profit: because they DO want to fill the stands. And the only way you can do that is by winning. That's the inherent fallacy of that argument. People will not pay to see a loser, and they know it.

I don't disagree with you at all. The real problem is that a significant portion of the Chiefs fanbase is not so upset with the team for "not winning anything in years" that they have stopped going to the games. Only when those fans stop going to the games will things change.

If you have such a lax attitude about the Chiefs then why even bother debating?

What team do you think you are going to get for $100 million?

To quote Dale Gribble:

Yep.

To quote Boomhauer:

Yep.

To quote Bill:

Mmm-hmm

I don't expect Carl to be fired. He will retire when he wants. That's Lamar's deal though.

You do expect more than I do. I subscribe to the addage: Expect little and you will receive much.

The Denver Broncos.

I fixed my typo, BTW.

Oh I've got hope. I'm even delusional enough to think that we can win the big one with Carl as GM. Heck, I even think the Kris Wilson pick was a good one. I like Vermiel as a coach. I think he's great. I think Ryan Sims will play better next season. I'm optimistic about Priest Holmes' injury situation.
I'm very optimistic and hopeful.

I hope that you run them for profit only, then...LOL!

See post #127.

That's already changing. The waiting list for season tickets has eroded to nothing (as I understand it). The main problem is that the average fan, in a lot of cases, has been priced out, and a lot of the season ticket base seems to be of the "event" persuasion rather than the "fan" persuasion (not that you can't be a fan while attending an event....). But that won't last forever, either, if they don't reclaim the so-called "glory" of the 90s. The last 7-10 years have not been good, and Arrowhead isn't what it once was. People are losing faith, losing hope, even the most ardent fans. That's just reality. Loyalty will continue to erode the longer we hang around .500.

Ha ha. Yeah right.

Youve received exactly what the rest of us have genius. No playoff wins in 13 years, and no superbowl appearances in over 30.

If you call that receiving much, you should set the crack pipe down at your feet, and slowly back away.

I find the debate entertaining. I like to rib folks too.
I don't think my attitude about the Chiefs is lax. I choose not to worry about things I have no control over.

what kills me as a fan of this team, is, the fact we missed the playoffs 7 of the last 8 years, and, we still keep the same GM. Our drafts have stunk over the past years, and, we still keep the same guy in charge, Lynn Stiles. I don't get it :shake: You can only be so loyal with ppl, and if they cant get the job done then your loyalty becomes a fault. I think that's the case with Lamar, he's too too too loyal to an absolute fault. Carl isn't doing his job, Stiles has drafted ineffective players. Carl shoulda fired Lyn, Lamar shoulda fired Carl. Our organization needs to grow a set of balls and fire those that aren't performing.
In turn, ppl aren't happy what else can I say.

Blackledge was drafted by the 3 "clowns" that ran the team b/f CP got here. I can't remember one guy's name, the other two wer Schaaf & Steadman.

I agree.

Did you bother to see what he said about EXPECTATIONS?

Maybe he expected to never win more than 6 games a season. If so, he's gotten more than expected SEVERAL times.

Agreed.
I believe they are starting to feel it now. As someone already pointed out earlier, the waiting lists of the 90s have evaporated. Interest, though still high, has dipped. Grumblings are heard more & more.

I know I've done MY part: I did not spend ONE PENNY on Chiefs clothing, tickets, or other merchandise last year, nor would I allow my family to purchase it for me. I attended one game (Christmas -v- the faid) thanks to a free pass in a suite, or I would have boycotted Arrowhead entirely.

I'm fed up with them.

I know this first-hand. My father is in town for some skiing, and he indicated to me last night while we were watching the KU-KSU game he was considering giving up his season tickets for the first time in thirty some years. He and his friends, who've all been season ticket holders since the Texans moved to KC are all now considering giving up their tickets.

I doubt he does- but, I know there must be a lot of season ticket holders who must be grumbling about the product on the field they've been paying for- for so many years

Shh!

Actually clown #3 who swung the decision to take Sackledge was John "Sleepy" Mackovic, the NFL's only narcoleptic coach. The story is here:
http://www.georgeblowfish.com/chiefspage5.html

I'm right there with ya.

You don't understand how it works. I was like you before. I got so upset about the playoff loss to Denver back in 97 that I didn't speak for a couple of hours. I decided after some thought that I was acting like a spoiled brat and that it is stupid to be so upset about something I have no control over and something that has a very small effect on my life.
I love the Chiefs but I don't need them to prop up my psyche.

You obviously don't get the deeper meaning of the phrase. I'm less disappointed than you because I have lesser or no expectations.

I also think all it will take to reinvigorate the fan base is a couple of signings and then (this is most important) just one, single, solitary playoff win.

Have you been buying season tickets even though things have been this bad? If so, then it's your fault.

Actually, it was the Indy loss in 1995...dang, that was a long time ago.

I agree...heck, a playoff win this year would be equivalent to a SB win in my book.

Me too.

Baby steps.

I was upset about that too but I remember specifically being horribly upset after that Denver game. Man, I can't stand Elway and that game just capped it for me.

BABY? F! No! That would be a giant leap for Chiefs-kind!

Baby steps...to heck with that. I'll be happy with 8-8 as it will be one game better than what we did this past season.

I've started wondering if maybe the team hasn't lost hope, too, although they've had enough turnover that it shouldn't matter. I mean you can say you believe in yourself, but it's been 12 years since they won a meaningful game. Maybe one win is all they really need. Hell, I still think if they'd gotten by Indy in '03 they'd have beaten New England. But we'll never know.

Maybe there's a ghost that needs to be exorcised, is all I'm saying.

I'll always be disappointed with anything less than a playoff appearance. That's just my nature. Doesn't have anything to do with thinking I'm entitled to it or anything, I'm just the kind of guy who doesn't deal well with losing.