Or PAM - the non-stick spray that makes everything from stovetop cooking, baking, grilling, and rushing the passer - just plain easier.

FAX

Absolute correct.

If it weren't for John Elway and Dan Reeves, the Broncos would have never seen the Super Bowl in the 80's.

It's surprising to me to see people even TRY to compare Elway's early struggles with Croyle's. Actually, it's ridiculous.

Elway was a Phenom, a prodigy.

Croyle is...???

Not.

I'm not debating that, but when he was finally in the right situation when he had weapons around him and a RB he won the SB twice.

A lot of people discount Reeves' contribution because he was so heavy handed. I was angry when Reeves was fired...but understand why he had to be, in retrospect.

-or was it the ZBS? The world may never know...

What was that reason, Mr. listopencil? I honestly don't recall.

FAX

Yeah and I'm sure you'd feel the same way if Tebow played for Georgia, right?

Its true! 'Herm' is only 4 letters, whereas the other option is 44 letters... why waste the time to make a point?

If Reeves had gone to Dallas instead of Switzer, I fully believe that Cowboys team would have gone 19-0. I even told all my friends at the time I believed that to be so.

I still don't understand how Reeves contribution to the NFL is so often overlooked. He took the Broncos three times to the Super Bowl, the Falcons to the Super Bowl and the Giants to the playoffs (a very poor, untalented Giants team).

Definitely worthy of the Hall of Fame.

Matt Stafford is a good QB as well. I want him to fail miserably and lose nearly every game, but that doesn't cloud my judgment of him as a player.

The problem for him is he lost all of those SB's.

All this "croyle can't win" is bogus. If you claim to be able to know by now, you are ignorant as hell, and I blame you for our consistent one-and-outs in the playoffs.

AN ACTUAL VALID STATISTICAL COMPARISON:

CROYLE:
Comp%: 58.1
TDS: 6
INTS: 6
YDS: 1227
RTG: 69.9
W-L: 0-6

Elway:
Comp%: 47.5
TDS: 9
INTS: 18
YDS: 1749
RTG: 55.7

Aikman:
Comp%: 52.9
TDS: 9
INTS: 18
YDS: 1749
RTG: 52.9
W-L: 4-7

Manning:
Comp%: 56.7
TDS: 26
INTS: 28
YDS: 3739
RTG: 71.2
W-L: 3-13

Point being, Croyle is as good statistically as any one of those guys in their first major year. An additional interesting note: in games in which Elway did not play, the broncos were 4-0. You all who claim Croyle is a bust CAN'T KNOW YET. If you knew and were making the personnel decisions for these three teams, the NFL would be out of 3 HoF QBs.

Yep. But the Chiefs are the worst of the lot. Maybe one day, our whole division will be good again, except for the Chargers, and the Chiefs will be the best of the lot. :hmmm:

That doesn't make him a poor coach. To the contrary.

He took teams to the Super Bowl with basically a one-trick pony of an offense (Elway). If he had a great running back to go along with Elway, the story might have been different.

But there's no denying that each of those years, he had the best team in the AFC.

Was Croyle the number one overall pick in the draft like Aikman, Elway or Manning?

No.

They were given the benefit of the doubt because they were drafted by THE worst teams in the NFL those respective years. There was NO WAY that those organizations were going to bench those players because they KNEW they were special.

No one, including the Chiefs front office, knows if Croyle is special. NO ONE. And even if he has "special" talent, will his body allow him to stay on the field for 16 consecutive games, something he's been unable to do to this point?

Comparing Croyle to HOFer's at this point is tenuous at best.

That would really suck to have South America's team win the Super Bowl in the same year that we have the worst record.

Why was Reeves fired? The final straw was, I believe, trying to trade Elway to the Redskins. At that point he had already fired Shanny for insubordination and Reeves' relationship with Elway was destroyed. Bowlen stepped in and fired Reeves.

Honestly? I don't know that KC will be the worst. We have a load of question marks going into the season. So do the Raiders. It's a crap shoot at this point.

Changing labor landscape might make juniors anxious to cash in
By Paul Kuharsky
ESPN.com
(Archive)
Updated: July 4, 2008

Highly touted juniors across the country are enjoying a little downtime. Soon enough, they'll be back on campus, getting ready for football season.

But that's not all they should be getting ready for, because early departure to the NFL may soon become a more attractive option.

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell recently called it "ridiculous" to reward unproven rookies with contracts like the one No. 1 pick Jake Long got from the Miami Dolphins -- a five-year deal with $30 million guaranteed. Plenty of players around the league would prefer to see more of the money go to veterans.

The owners recently opted out of the collective bargaining agreement, which means it will expire in 2011 instead of 2013. But if there isn't a new deal by March 2009, an absence of one would trigger big changes -- there would be no 2010 salary cap, and the framework of free agency would change.

Count Roger Goodell, left, among those who believe No. 1 pick Jake Long is making too much money.

Let's presume the sides find common ground for a new deal next spring, keep 2009 in place under its existing structure, but agree on some revision to rookie salaries starting in 2010.

If you're a junior this fall, you'll want to get into the league as soon as you can. Wait, and you'd be part of the first draft class to enter after the system is changed, perhaps costing yourself millions.

Agent Ian Greengross thinks that if an inequity exists in the salaries top picks are getting, it doesn't last very deep into the draft. He's negotiated first-round deals for Oakland running back Darren McFadden, Houston defensive tackle Amobi Okoye and Indianapolis running back Joseph Addai.

Greengross and his fellow agents cannot talk to players who are true juniors or younger. Barring family issues or hardships, he said he's always offered blanket encouragement for juniors to stay in school. If there is potential for the financial landscape for rookies to change, however, he might come to see things differently.

"As the 10th pick [in 2007], Amobi Okoye got $12.5 in bonuses and guarantees," Greengross said. "If next year [the 10th pick] still gets the two-year increase above him but there is the possibility that the year after that you'd get cut down to $5 million, you would think some of those juniors would look at that and say, 'It's to my economic advantage to declare early and take my chances. Because even if I go in the second round, I'm not losing that much -- next year will be cut down anyway.'"

Former Denver general manager Ted Sundquist said he expects things will change for the NFL's college advisory committee on which he once served. He hopes juniors who consider declaring for the draft still listen to the committee's recommendations.

"What it may do is at least temporarily overload the system," he said. "The CAC may get blasted with, who knows, twice as many evaluations as they have in the past."

Texas Tech coach Mike Leach doesn't believe juniors will rush to beat changes to the NFL's system.

"I don't think that would happen, because if they leave early, they're idiots because the scale would go up [the next year]," he said. "They need to remember that the success rate of players who leave early is dismal. Historically, guys lose money if they come out early, and a lot of these agents are nothing but loan sharks. And all these players who would be so worried about how much money they're going to make just need to be worried about making the team."

Those involved have not publicly floated any solid proposals about how rookie salaries could be changed.

Will Goodell and the owners push for a NBA-style rookie salary scale in which the numbers are predetermined? Will owners look to cut down the numbers only on the first handful of picks? Will they try to negotiate something in between?

Some of the conversation amounts to posturing.

Few teams didn't have the cap space they needed to chase whom they wanted when free agency began. And if teams are so concerned about rookies outdoing proven performers in the paycheck department, plenty of clubs still have enough room to redo the contracts of select veterans right now.

Sundquist thinks an adjustment to rookie deals needs to be made and said he thinks one fair way to alter rookie salaries is to get back to the intention of the rookie pool -- the total cap number a team is allowed to spend on its draft class, figured by a formula that considers the previous cost of the same slots.

Agents and teams manage to keep first-round picks in line with the rookie pool by negotiating option or roster bonuses for later in the deal.

"There would have to be some sort of cap on guaranteed money -- signing bonus, option bonus," Sundquist said. "The rookie pool in a sense was a good idea -- in a sense it controlled those first-year numbers. But it ended up controlling those first-year numbers and putting a great deal of guaranteed money in the second year, which at times becomes very difficult for teams to swallow.

"After one year, you can quickly figure out sometimes that you've missed. Then you're staring down the double barrel of an option bonus or a guaranteed buyout."

Complicated contracts can be difficult to compare in real dollars, but on a recent edition of ESPN's "NFL Live" it was suggested the deal for the third pick in the draft, Atlanta quarterback Matt Ryan, actually puts him ahead of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. Ryan's deal has been framed as worth $72 million for six years and includes $34.75 million guaranteed.

Ryan said he understands both sides of the debate.

Green Bay cornerback Al Harris is OK with some rookies hitting the jackpot, but unsurprisingly prefers when it's veterans who get the big bucks.

"I think some guys, they do a great job in college and they should get a significant amount of money," Harris said. "If you get paid, that's your blessing, and I'm for that. But if there is another quarterback that's making more than Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, you probably should look into it."

Like Harris, NFLPA president Kevin Mawae has said he's not mad at rookies, that all players should get all they can get when they can get it.

The Titans center doesn't consider rookie salaries a huge issue at this point, though he said he's aware it may rate as one for management.

"You've got what, 250 kids getting drafted this year, and only five of them are making that kind of money," Mawae said. "So the problem is probably not as big as everybody's making it out to be."

He pointed to two young players on his own offensive line, Michael Roos and David Stewart, who recently signed big extensions.

"Guys are getting the money, and it's not just the top three draft picks, but it would seem that way because the media focuses on the rookies coming out," he said. "It's one of those deals. You get the big contract, a lot is expected out of you, and if you don't perform you're not going to get another one."

Which is what makes the first one so important.

Which is what will prompt more juniors to declare for the draft and get that contract before anything changes.

Paul Kuharsky covers the NFL for ESPN.com.

That's asinine, nobody knows anything. By your logic, Ryan Leaf is special, and a Superbowl winning quarterback. For every first round bang, there is a first round bust. It all comes down to homework, and now we can only hope the Chiefs did theirs.

Really? So San Diego didn't give Leaf the benefit of the doubt for years?

When I emphasized "KNEW", I was emphasizing the arrogance of NFL GM's.

I found it interesting that he had Tebow and Stafford going in the top five, yet they didn't even make his top twenty on his "big board".

and he had Curtis Painter (Purdue) and Hunter Cantwell (Louisville) both in his top ten.

the only explanation is that he predicts that the entire league will be tricked into thinking that Tebow and Staffard are the best two quarterbacks... yet, he will know the actual truth. that truth being that Painter and Cantwell will far out-shine their counter-parts in the NFL...

this guy must be full of himself. what a dildo

Dane just sit back and enjoy the ride to the first or second pick in the draft. If Croyle suprises we can pick another stud, if not we take a flyer on a QB.

LMAO
IMO, he's better then anything we currently have. Croyle is the one who,"Ain't an NFL QB." Hopefully after this year, the Chiefs realize it.

True, but WE have Herm so that gives us the edge...:doh!:

I will make a wager with you. I see the Chiefs winning anywhere from 6-maybe even 8 games.

QFT

Tim Tebow for the number 1 spot? Pass. I'll take Oher or trade down to the 5th spot and get Maualuga.

Dorsey and Maualuga :drool:

Just try and go up the middle.

Norv ****ing Turner did something Martha Big Ol Piece Of Shittenhiemer couldnt do since Montana bailed his pathetic ass out in the playoffs '94...ROFL

Whoa. Holy shit. I was just goofing around and found this.

So the St. Lose Lambs are trading away their 2009 guaranteed top 5 draft pick???

Looks like us "Croyle Bashers" were right once again.

I sure hope he can stay healthy for longer than 3 quarters when he returns.

I wouldn't bet on it.

I've been seeing Andre Smith, Stafford, Tebow, and Oher in the mocks so far.

This is hilarious in retrospect:

http://www.chrissteuber.com/scout/2009mockdraft1.swf

Man. Those ****ers still had us taking Knowshon Moreno with the first pick.