And I've killed the thread.

I still have that cooler.

I took my season ticket money and invested it in additional fantasy football leagues.I get to see quality football because I'm watching all the games and so far I've parlayed it into additional cash winnings so I'm far and ahead then when I was going to Arrowhead. :)

Not to completely hijack, but in order to improve, you have to be willing to change. Not just change players and playcalling, but change philosophies so you can get ahead of the curve and have a distinct advantage over the competition.

Herm hasn't updated his philosophy to match the '80s much less get ahead of today's curve. Maybe Bill was the same way when he was with Cleveland, but I don't see Herm changing the way he sees the game. IMO, he'll always be a coach that keeps both teams in the game, because of his philosophy that the most you can possibly do is have a chance to win at the end. It's the 50/50 philosophy, which doesn't work when you want to win more than one or two playoff games.[/hijack]

KC Fish, Big Daddy Bearcat summed it up very nicely...

Herm will always be the square peg in the round hole...

HERM WARFARE!!1

I'm just finishing a book about Belichick that is amazing. The problem with simply looking at his record in Cleveland and NE early is it completely ignores the man's history, as well as the circumstances surrounding his years in Cleveland.
Belichick's entire life was a buildup to him being a great coach, including years and years of toiling for nearly no money building his resume and his knowledge of the game. Herm didn't even want to coach before he was begged to come work by Dungy. He wanted to scout. So far, it seems he would've been great at that job. As a coach, he may improve, but up till now, no one is impressed.

This offense was headed down the shitter no matter who took over. Terrible drafts left this team with absolute crap depth wise on the offensive side of the ball. Once Roaf and Shields left and Trent's brain got scrambled this offense was doomed.

Damn...you've got a good memory!

Nahhhh.....We ran out of jaggerbombs early.:)

But, at least we did get some before you ran out.:D

OK, Clayton, I'll play. Do you know when I stopped liking Herman ****ING Edwards?

It was the Indy game last year. Tie ball game 4 minutes left. Its 3rd and 12. Herman ****ING Edwards runs a goddamned mother****ing DRAW PLAY for 2 yards. 2 mother ****ing yards!!! TWO! Jesus ****ing Christ!!!! Herman ****ING Edwards decided to PUNT to PEYTON MANNING with the game on the line. You have to at least TRY to get a first down. You have to. As a result, Peyton then did what Peyton does and took the clock down to nothing and won the ballgame.

That is a bullshit play call and everyone in the NFL knows it except for Herman ****ING Edwards. You have to at least TRY to win the ballgame. You've got a young kid with a rocket arm, A badass WR that will fight for the ball and a HOF TE. See what the kid can do. If he gets a sack, so what? Tell Colquit to kick it further. YOU HAVE TO TRY. There isn't a defense in the NFL that I would be comfortable punting to Peyton Manning with the game on the line. Not one. ESPECIALLY not ours. The D had played admirably to that point, but you just can't expect a D to hold that kind of offensive machine. Its not fair to them and especially not fair to the offense that you won't even try!

Those things you say are true, but this team cannot win if Herm continues to play beyond-conservative football. I don't care how well he drafts, plays the young kids, gives cliche answers in press conferences, if he won't nut up and try to win a ballgame, this team is going ****ing NOWHERE.

That is why I don't like Herman ****ING Edwards and do not trust him with the offense.

JMO

Ok, this is a fair enough criticism. Pretty dumb to try and play it safe with Peyton on the other sideline.

:clap::clap:

Exactly right. Herm is not a Head Coach. He needs to be a scout type guy.

Yeah. Nice post.:rolleyes:

Unlike all the other sheep around here, I don't think Brodie Croyle has proven jackshit. He hasn't proven in more than 6 games that he can "laser" a ball in the right place under pressure, he hasn't proven he can lead a team to victory and he hasn't proven that he's worth more than a pimple on my ****ing ass.

Herm Edwards conservative coaching is what kept the Chiefs in the game.

Though I'm sure that all you whiney ass dumb ****ing bitches would have liked it better if the Chiefs had lost 49-0.

BRC got this hate party started!! Nice!

Well if you want to give tickets away, I'll gladly take them off your hands. Also by the sound of the of this letter you sound pretty wealthy, you make a little donation to another Chiefs fan :p

I didn't say anything about the rest of the game. But Peyton Manning wins games. You don't just concede to punt to him on third down with the game on the line. Early in the game, yeah, you need to punt, but you can't run a ****ing draw play on third down just so you can get your punter 2 yards closer. Holy shit.

And part of the reason Brodie hasn't shown shit is because Herm won't ****ing let him. We might know something about the kid if he would have put him in a position to win the game. If he blows, then we would know that he had a throw when the pressure was on and blew it. But you have to try. You just have to. I certainly understand your point about putting a lot on a young kid, especially in his first start, but you gotta find out sometime, and you can't expect the D to hold up to the Peyton Manning war machine. There is a time to be conservative, and there is a time to let your guys win (or lose) the game.

Who the **** cares if Brodie Croyle has proven anything?

His post wasn't about Croyle you useless ****ing dumbass.

It was about making the attempt to win a game, and the fact that Herman ****ing Edwards made an attempt to not lose.

Am I the only one happy to see this finally happen. With the TeePee calling it quits and now BRC folding up the tailgate I will now live longer. It took away many years of my life dancing at the Teepee getting to the point of almost a heart attack, then being topped off by having to walk 20 feet and BRC giving me a "HEART ATTACK ON A BUN." Not to mention BRC giving me the biggest man hugs, I actually know what it feels like to be a pimple being popped cause of these.

In all serious, BRC with you the Tee Pee calling it quits, Weirdwolf retiring and Elvis making the same decsion you have, has completely blown Lot C up into also nothing. You were a huge part of what made that area the very best in the area of tailgating/party in the whole NFL and I've been to 24 NFL stadiums to justify that comment. There was not a better time anywhere in the NFL. Like I told WeirdWolf, go recharge those batteries, relight that fire and we will hold the fort down. In the meantime I will work on my spandex figure walking aimlessly through the parking lot trying to find "THE PARTY" but nothing will every compare to the one you helped make. You defiently will have to give me a hugs to make up for the ones I don't get every game you do decide to come to.

It's hard for me to believe that you've been a season ticket holder since 96, yet now is the time you are deciding to give them up. After the last two drafts and our obvious emphasis on youth, this is an exciting time to be a Chiefs fan. No, we're probably not going to win anything this year, but we're rebuilding the right way and it should pay dividends in the future.

If it's a financial decision then I certainly understand your point. Ticket prices have been going up drastically for some time all around the league. That said, it's simple supply and demand, and if you don't pay then apparently someone else will. So, while I definitely understand your dissatisfaction on this issue, I can also see the organization's side as well.

Herman ****ING Edwards didn't call a draw play. Mike ****ing Solari did. Mike ****ing Solari was the offensive coordinator. You know... the offensive coordinator guy that calls offensive plays.... Mike ****ing Solari... who was fired after the season for making those kinds of offensive calls?

:shake:

And the defense had just as much to do with that loss as anything. They had a chance to put the game away, and they blew it hard. Your excuse that there wasn't a defense that could stop Peyton is utter BS. Not fair to the defense to be expected to make a team punt? Sounds like a Vermeil attitude.

Lot C will be a shadow of it's former self for sure. When BRC decides to say "no mas" to season tickets you know the Chiefs are *&$#ed. All the best to you and your family, BRC, hope to cross paths with you sometime this season.

Actually to be honest we don't know who called that play.

Solari could have called something else and Herm over rides that call with a play of his own.

Solari couldn't be THAT stupid to run a draw like that with the game on the line. He's been in the NFL too long to know that.

He hasn't been in the NFL longer than Herm Edwards.

I hear ya BRC ... but if possible, go to all the games they need real-fans too ....

Yeah... We're paying an OC a few million to call offensive plays, but who knows who called that one.... even though Solari was fired for unimaginative playcalling. Which he has admitted to in interviews since then...

all X-STHers have become part time "real" fans..... a game here/there for the Arrowhead experience.
Until Carl is gone and this ship is truly "righted" will it begin to be the same as 90s.

Baa.

FAX

You don't think Herm had an influence on playcalling?

I still recall one of the first preseason games with Herm and Solari and Solari was calling plays aggressively like his predecessor. It didnt' work out well in that preseason game and Herm said something after the game that you'd never see playcalling like that again.

If you don't think Solari was under orders to play for field position on some 3rd and longs you are in denial.

Yeah, I am not saying Solari was not a tard. He was. But Solari got his strategic guidance from Herm. I remember several times where Herm said they worked together, and he was bringing Solari along.

Moreover, almost every headcoach has involvment in game changing plays. Even Marty, who hardly wore his headphones. If Herm didn't say, woah, "woah, WOAH, we probably shouldn't punt to Peyton Manning with the game on the line," then IMO, its still his bad.

Then why would Solari be fired? Think about it. If he was only under orders from Herm, why was he canned? If that's the style of play that Herm wants, why would he fire somebody who is doing exactly what he wanted him to? If Herm really wanted to put brakes on the offense and strive for field goals, why fire Solari and hire Chan?

I'm not in denial. I'm not claiming Herm does no wrong. I'm just not blaming every negative facet of the game on Herm.

Now you're backtracking....

So now it's Herm's fault that he didn't step in and change things to prevent punting to Peyton? Easier said than done.

How about executing the plays? Is it also Herm's fault that the players couldn't execute the plays that were called?

If they would have done that, we likely would have won that game. If the defense would have made a stop in the 4th quarter, we likely would have won. It doesn't make a shit bit of difference what plays were called or who called them if the personnel can't execute it.

Because that is what head coaches do to save their own ass. They fire their coordinators.

Herm wasn't in any danger of being fired.

Thats what I'll miss most is the tailgating and friends built up through the years.
Weirdwolf
FirstDownElvis
Nzoner
Brock
JSPChief
and now me

Thats some seriously hard core Chief fans that have given up their tickets.:shake:

Lot C was the best place to party/tailgate. It rocked.

I guess I'm not "hardcore."

:(

This game is one of the more underrated arguments on this board...

No, I'm operating under the premise that Herm is responsible for that play. I seriously don't think that Solari would be like, "No, Herm, I don't think we can get a 12 yard play. I'm going to run a draw play to get Colquitt 2 more yards and make Gunther's D stop the best offensive unit in the league." Sorry, I don't buy it. Not in the least.

Jesus Saunders used to run draws on 3rd and Long quite a bit as well but on the other hand so did Jimmy Raye with Donnell Bennett.

Big ommision. I profusely apoligize. You are worthy! :wayne:

You're "operating under a premise" huh? You mean blindly guessing what someone else might have been thinking?

No matter how badly you want to blame Herm for everything, the offensive coordinator calls the plays. Not the head coach. And The OC doesn't check in with the head coach on each play to get his opinion on the matter. It doesn't happen that way.

Keep reaching.

I know you get a lot of grief about the spandex and beeing an attention whore.

But I know all about the charity work that you do and the people that you have helped when you wern't in the spandex. Just let them be haters and keep up the charity work.

I'll see you on opening day or at Red Friday!

Speaking of reaching.. Herm is this really you?

Oh and why do all the plays go through the Asst HC before they go onto the field? Yet the Asst HC has veto power over the OC...

Why you failing to bring that into the conversation?

I'd love to see a link that confirms that information.

Christ, an OC gets about 15 seconds out of the play clock to make a decision and make a play call so the offense can get out of the huddle on time. They don't have the time to go through multiple decision makers.

Some of you guys are acting like there's a ****ing union meeting over on the sidelines determining the playcall.

I would like to see a link that proves otherwise... You have your opinion and I have mine....

A union meeting on the sidelines would be a step up. Problem is Herm is still part of that union...

If you think Herm has no effect on the plays that are called, especially for a n00b coordinator, then there is not really much more to talk about.

Who needs a link when you use common ****ing sense?

Oh, wait. Too much to ask from you.

If the situation you're suggesting was actually the case, we'd be getting 15 delay of game penalties every Sunday.

There's simply not enough time to have a decision made, a play called, THEN VETOED - only to have another decision made and ANOTHER play called.

All in 15 seconds.

Having an "effect" and actually controlling the playcalls on Sunday are two totally separate issues.

There's not a HC in the league that doesn't sit down with the OC during the week to discuss playcalls for specific down and distance situations.

But to say that he's vetoing the playcalls and making them himself on Sunday is flat out tinfoil hat BS.

As pointed out already, there's just not enough time.

I think Herm had a tremendous amount to do with that specific decision. He stated several times that he was working directly with Solari since he was a n00b. Moreover, he talks consistently about a conservative strategy within games.

Bottom line: Herm is not the coach of this team, we at least TRY to get a first down tie ballgame with 4 minutes left.

Got this response so far.....Buy another ticket and we will move you to some better seats.


Good afternoon. Thank you for your continued support of the Kansas City Chiefs! I would like to introduce myself as your Kansas City Chiefs account manager.

It has come to my attention that there are seats available next to your LowerLevel season tickets. Do you know anyone who would be interested in sitting next to you for the 2008 season?

If so, I can secure those seats for you or we can relocate all of your seats to a better location with the addition of 1 or more season tickets.

Thank you once again for remaining a part of the Chiefs family. If I can help you in anyway, please call (edited by BRC) or email (edited by BRC) and I would be happy to assist.

All the best, Steve

Steve Eberle│ Account Executive

At least you got some response. "Account Executive" sounds pretty low to me, but hopefully your message was received by more than him.

:eek:

Wow! I had no idea, like you said, that's a lot of core players.

Tell you what, I'm glad to see it happen though. The people running the show at One Arrowhead Drive have been the General Motors of the NFL for way to long and speaking with your wallet is the only way they'll listen.

There may be light at the end of the tunnel after all.

I really don't pay much attention to that stuff BRC, I chalk it up to sterotyping, jealousy or just not being educated on why I do it. You know why I do it along with thousands of others and I do it for the kids anyways not the adults and I've never heard a kid say that. In the same breath you keep moving mountains in the community also, in the end of the day that is what matters most anyways. I will see you loud and proud at Red Friday!!! Thanks for always being a great friend!! Hopefully you will join us again on a full time basis at Arrowhead.

I gave up 2 years ago (2006 season), probably should have done it 2 years before that....

apparently enough "true real fans" (lower bowl) are doing it now to really get their attention....

Had we done it before Carl would already be gone, but they may not have renewed the lease.....at Arrowhead.

Wow... all those guys gave up their tickets? Wild.

BRC ... you are a HERO!!!! This is the only way Clark will be induced to make needed changes.

I know it is a big step ... if they start winning you may have to go to the back of the line to get season tickets ... but, on the other hand, what have they really won since the SB win???? CP has proven he is more interested in the bottom line than the goal line and as long as he is there we will not get close to a SB. We might would have had a chance had CP spent money on the right defensive player for DV???

So, a great big VIRTUAL HIGH 5 from me!!!!

He's the one that handles all the ticketing sales: individual and group season tickets. It's what I used to do when I was living in KC. I was an Account Executive for a couple of sports teams there. Handled all the season and group ticket sales.

He's working the stadium to see if he can make BRC happier by suggesting the opportunity of having your friends all sit in the same area- something that could not possibly be done without an insurmountable glob of luck in the late 80's and 90's.

My father was a season ticket holder since the Chiefs moved to KC. He and his friends were very fortunate to have been able to sit with each other for so many years. But, they have all ended their season tickets after so many years.

I was surprised 'cause my father had always been a Chiefs fanatic. But, he did bring up a good point, and that is- "I've got a wall-size high-definition TV now, I'm closer to the action than ever before."

And this is the thing that is actually hurting a lot of teams. More and more men these days are creating theater seating rooms in their homes and "tailgating" at home. Add in the fact, a team suffered a few bad years on the playing field and you have a recipe for disaster.

So, the Account Executive is trying his best by offering available seats so his friends can all sit together like my father and his did for so many years. Yah, they had to endure the 70's, but when the team got to be really good and the stadium was electric- those seats were golden to them.

What a load of canned auto-reply crap.... and to ask for more money after such a detailed explanation of why you won't be giving them anymore... :shake: I wonder if they outsource to Sprint.

so what finally pushed you over the edge BigRedChief. was it the state of the team or the price increase?

This response tells me all I need to know about how well season ticket sales are going.

yep. fully expect blackout's for non-conf/non-division home games.
this sounds it could be a good poll come Sept 2008

I'm confused and I don't have time to read through the entire thread.

I thought you had already renewed your seats BRC?

Neither. It was lingering resentment of King Carl and no value in being a season ticket holder.

A lot of the pages are posters bagging on Herm Edwards play calling.

Yes, I renewed initially and then changed my mind. So I'll lose a hundred or two dollars but get to keep from spending another thousand or so plus get my thousand back.

That's too bad. I was planning on bringing you margaritas at every game. :p

So there's a group of 5-6 seats together in the lower part of section 110, yet I'd bet if I called right now and asked for the best seats available, they'd try to give me something in the upper deck corners about 30 rows up.

I've been a Chiefs fan for a long time, I totally understand your point of view.

There was a day when the "lower class" people supported each and every NFL franchise. Today you have to be upper middle class to be recruited to be a season ticket holder.

I'm very disappointed in much the same way that BRC has been. I dont' see the product getting better and I see the prices escalating{sp} beyond what I'd want to pay.

I'll probably be a Chiefs fan for al slong as I watch professional football, but I can see a day when I become disinterested to the sport because of the attitudes of the franchises and the decreasing fanaticism of those that watch the game. I dont' think the sport will cease to exist but it has become such a big business that the fans are no longer really considered necessary.

Being a real fan is not related to being a season ticket holder nor going to all the games in my opinion, it's more the heart connection to the red and gold.

No, they wouldn't.

As a former account executive myself who sold group and season ticket sales, you tried to sell the best seats in the house. The best seats provided the best commissions.

So, if you were to call me up and said, "Hey, my four buddies and I are thinking about getting season tickets together. Where can we sit?"

I'm going to pull up club level first and work feverishly to find five seats together in club level. If not in the same row, hopefully two together in one row, and three together in the row directly in front or behind them.

The last thing I'd do as a Account Executive is offer the nosebleed seats.

Wish you were still there as the guys I have talked to that don't sing the same song and dance you did.

Was put in charge of buying ST for the company last year and the only way we could get the LL seat was buy 6 up top and get 2 below. Needless to say the boss was not to pleased with the car dealership offer.

I don't think you have ever let me partake of the tailgate margaritas. Thats the real reason that I'm not renewing. Are you happy now!:harumph:

Experience The New Arrowhead Stadium


The New Arrowhead Stadium VIP Club Level seats are ideal for Chiefs fans who want to see all the action from optimal sightlines and take in the Arrowhead experience while enjoying the convenience and luxury of the club level, available before, during and after the games. The club level will feature a spacious, fully enclosed, temperature-controlled concourse with views of all the tailgating grounds at the New Arrowhead Stadium.

Prior to the New Arrowhead Stadium VIP Club Level being completed for the 2010 season all current club level seats will be shifted slightly as we comply with ADA (American Disability Act) regulations. In addition, over 450 club level seats will be lost as isles are widened to comply with these regulations.

All current club level seat locations will be affected by these improvements and will require the Chiefs relocation team to contact each club level season ticket holder individually to discuss amenities and explain options. The Chiefs relocation team's responsibility is to ensure that each season ticket holder is provided with comparable, if not better seating in the new Arrowhead Stadium.

Relocation Process:
Beginning in January 2008, the Chiefs relocation team will begin calling all current club level season ticket holders to discuss options and to find comparable seats. This process will begin with sections located on the 50 yard line and will work towards the end zones. Each section is estimated to take 4 – 6 weeks to complete.

Join the club for pricey Chiefs seats
Oh, baby, what a play!</EM>

The Chiefs sent out nine-page, three-year contracts to some season ticket holders, complete with five pages of fine-print legalese and prices eventually doubling that of this season.

It doesn’t surprise Ticket Solutions’ owner Russ Lindmark.

“Unless they’re economic prognosticators, it seems to be outpacing inflation a little bit,” Lindmark says. “Either they’ve been undervaluing those tickets for a long time, or they want to put them in the hands of corporate Kansas City, because realistically individuals are going to have a hard time paying those prices.”

Under the terms of the contract, premium club-level “sideline select” season tickets priced at $1,100 each this year jump to $1,490 in 2009 (up 35 percent), then to $2,550 in 2010 and $2,700 in 2011.

The portion of the new ticket terms that brokers and fans alike may find particularly galling: a “non-transferability” clause.

“Except as expressly permitted by these terms and conditions, under no circumstances shall (ticket holder) sell, barter, exchange, transfer for consideration, or raffle off club seats to games or stadium events or use club seat tickets for any promotional or commercial purpose without prior written approval of (the Chiefs); provided, however, that (the ticket holder) is free to sell club seat tickets via TeamExchange and TicketExchange on <!--coloro:#990000--><!--/coloro-->www.kcchiefs.com<!--colorc--><!--/colorc--> or <!--coloro:#990000--><!--/coloro-->www.ticketmaster.com<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->.”

Translation: It would appear that the Chiefs want to play Monopoly with choice seats.

“They don’t mind the resale, as long as they get to share in the profits,” Lindmark says. “That’s fine, but open it up to the free market. They have a rule on their TicketExchange that you can only sell tickets at or above face value. You can’t sell them for less than that. But the market value may very well be below face value.”

Lindmark’s hunch as to why the Chiefs might want to force season ticket holders to eat tickets for games they can’t attend but may be unsalable at face value?

“Because it would undermine their ticket sales at the box office,” Lindmark contends. “They want to protect the tickets they have remaining to sell. What they don’t want is their TicketExchange full of tickets for sale at half of what they’re asking at the box office. They want to have their cake and eat it, too.”

Kansas City Chiefs senior vice president Bill Newman has another take:

“He wants his cake and he wants to eat it, too,” Newman counters. “He’s the one who wants to dine out at our expense.”

The ticket contract applies only to 9 percent of the stadium, leaving the other 91 to do as they please (within reason) with their tickets, Newman says.

The Chiefs want to protect the sanctity and the value of club-level seats, in part because of the amenities that are being added, premium prices are paid, and there is a waiting list for those tickets.

http://www.kansascity.com/entertainm...ry/491826.html

I'm suprised they haven't called you up directly pleading "PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE RENEW, OR CARL IS GOING TO FEED US TO THE SYPHILLIS INFECTED SPIDER MONKEYS!!!"

The new Arrowhead looks reeruned, wtf is gonna wanna buy seats in the "Horizon Level"?.

Management knows they are losing fans based on the new pricing structure. It is my understanding that they lowered prices in the upper level and raised them in the lower level.

Lower level fans are less likely to give up their tickets because of their 20+ year commitment. Upper level seats will now be cheaper to avoid a sell out.

Did Clark come in and clear house like he wants to do things differently? No. The Hunts are just as much to blame as Carl. If Carl had different marching orders the results might be different. If not, he would be gone.

Carl ran a cash cow for the Hunts. I do not know the terms of Carl's contract but based on the last 20 years I suspect he is bonused on profit...not Super Bowl wins.

After Lamar won his ring he focused on soccer instead of more SB rings.

Why are we consistently the lowest payroll in the NFL?

I don't have time to look up every team, but I can tell you that the Chiefs were nowhere near the lowest payroll last season.

The SB Champion Giants hold that distinction, spending just over $75M, while the Chiefs spent over $108M.

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/f...s/default.aspx

Heck this is the only year in recent times the Chiefs have that much cap room, so i have no idea what Mojo is talking about. We are not consistently the lowest payroll in the league. The problem was spending the money on older players that didn't do crap and shitty drafts. Heck i'd rather do the approach we are doing now than blow money on over the hill vets.