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|Zach| 06-28-2009 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 5868994)
Elway was the only QB in the history of the NFL who could single-handedly carry teams to wins. If the rookies we drafted are good, we are a much better team with Orton than we were with Cutler.
TD: "The ****?"

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/sport...errell0514.jpg

doomy3 06-28-2009 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 5868994)
Elway was the only QB in the history of the NFL who could single-handedly carry teams to wins. If the rookies we drafted are good, we are a much better team with Orton than we were with Cutler.
LMAOLMAOLMAOLMAO

Quesadilla Joe 06-28-2009 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wild1 (Post 5868368)
everytime i read 'kyle orton is for real', i think of all the times i have watched him play. and then i chuckle.
Did you see what he had around him in Chicago? First off... The offensive line he played with is one of the 5 worst in the league. I have never seen a team pick up a blitz worse than the Bears. Their right tackle last year was worse than ANY offensive lineman on your team last year, he can't hold a block for more than 1 second. He gave up 17 more sacks than the Broncos ENTIRE offensive line did last year.

Their receivers can't beat one on one coverage, they don't make plays on the ball, and they can't catch. Pathetic WR core.

The play calling is HORRIBLE. It was like watching a Herm coached team. Run, Run, Pass, Punt (repeat)

Quesadilla Joe 06-28-2009 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by |Zach| (Post 5869023)
Elway only had TD for the last 4 years of his career.
Quote:
“So far in Elway’s career, his offensive linemen and wide receivers have been voted to the Pro Bowl a combined seven times. In Dan Marino’s 15 seasons, Miami Dolphins offensive linemen and wide receivers have been selected to the Pro Bowl 30 times. … Though usually surrounded by a human rummage sale, Elway has won more games as a starter than any other quarterback in NFL history (148). He had more 4th quarter or overtime come from behnd victories than any other QB in history. (49) It’s the equivalent of carving Mount Rushmore with a spoon or composing Beethoven’s Ninth on a kazoo.
But Elway’s career has been about more than just winning. It has been about escaping defeat a half page from the end of the novel, leaping over pits of fire with the microdot hidden in his cigarette lighter. On first down Elway was ‘pretty average,’ his Stanford coach Paul Wiggin once said. But when the elementary school kids are being held hostage and the detonator reads 00:03, who would you rather have clipping the wires than Elway? He may be the only quarterback in history who could stand on his own two-yard line, trailing by five with less than two minutes to play, no timeouts left, windchill –5, and cause the opposing coach to mutter, ‘We’re in trouble.’” --Rick Reilly, Sports Illustrated, qtd. in Austin Murphy’s The Super Bowl: Sports Greatest Championship

|Zach| 06-28-2009 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 5869043)
Elway only had TD for the last 4 years of his career.
The only time he was Superbowl Champion.

Just say'n.

Quesadilla Joe 06-28-2009 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by |Zach| (Post 5869058)
The only time he was Superbowl Champion.

Just say'n.
No QB has went to more Super Bowl's than John Elway did.

Just say'n.

|Zach| 06-28-2009 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 5869071)
No QB has went to more Super Bowl's than John Elway did.

Just say'n.
He didn't single handedly win shit until he had an elite RB.

No worries though, if I was you I would be talking about Elway as well. Your QB is Kyle Orton and you are going through the most embarrassing off season a franchise has ever had.

StcChief 06-28-2009 02:27 PM
:bong:The dope in Denver must be really good.

RNR 06-28-2009 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by |Zach| (Post 5869075)
He didn't single handedly win shit until he had an elite RB.

No worries though, if I was you I would be talking about Elway as well. Your QB is Kyle Orton and you are going through the most embarrassing off season a franchise has ever had.
The first (win) he had little to do with. The 2nd he put on a show. The other Superbowls he took teams that had no business being there to begin with. I remember the 55 to 10 beat down against the 49ers. I said at the time had Montana and Elway switched teams it would have been a larger blowout and I still think so today. This guy is obviously a blind homer but Elway is still the best QB I have ever seen. I hated him and cussed him but he could flat out play.

|Zach| 06-28-2009 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RNR (Post 5869118)
The first (win) he had little to do with. The 2nd he put on a show. The other Superbowls he took teams that had no business being there to begin with. I remember the 55 to 10 beat down against the 49ers. I said at the time had Montana and Elway switched teams it would have been a larger blowout and I still think so today. This guy is obviously a blind homer but Elway is still the best QB I have ever seen. I hated him and cussed him but he could flat out play.
Nobody is saying Elway isn't a great QB. However having a "good season" with a lesser doesn't really mean all that much. You could have said the same about Montana taking the Chiefs to AFC Championship with JJ ****ing Birden.

It took an elite RB to really win the big thing. There is no shame in that.

Rain Man 06-28-2009 02:40 PM
I believe that I proved statistically in an earlier thread that Elway was a lousy quarterback. Case closed.

Mile High Mania 06-28-2009 02:54 PM
How the hell did this thread morph into Elway, Montana...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain Man (Post 5869135)
I believe that I proved statistically in an earlier thread that Elway was a lousy quarterback. Case closed.
Heh, I'm not taking the bait... you can 'prove anything' using statistics. Hell, statistically speaking, the Chiefs have a shot at a title in 2009. Statistically speaking, the Chiefs were the greatest team of the 90s and they did so little with all that power....

Statistically speaking, Clayton is a male and there are lots of needy women...

RNR 06-28-2009 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by |Zach| (Post 5869123)
Nobody is saying Elway isn't a great QB. However having a "good season" with a lesser doesn't really mean all that much. You could have said the same about Montana taking the Chiefs to AFC Championship with JJ ****ing Birden.

It took an elite RB to really win the big thing. There is no shame in that.
Agreed had Hunt spent the money on a couple difference makers that year the Chiefs could have won a Superbowl with that Montana led team. From the neck up Montana was the best ever. Even as an aging QB he raised the talent around him on that team.

chiefzilla1501 06-28-2009 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 5868994)
Elway was the only QB in the history of the NFL who could single-handedly carry teams to wins. If the rookies we drafted are good, we are a much better team with Orton than we were with Cutler.
Right.

Because Peyton Manning doesn't call audibles.
Because Tom Brady didn't do it with his pocket presence and quick release.
Because Kurt Warner didn't do it

And before you use your reeruned argument about how Elway had no one around him (because I know it's coming), I'm sure that Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey and the outstanding coaching of Mike Shanahan had NOTHING to do with Elway's success.

And your argument is suggesting that Kyle Orton will be as good as Kurt Warner, Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Big Ben, etc... etc... etc.... QBs, who apparently wouldn't have made the Super Bowl if not for a superb supporting cast.

Again, even the Broncos' fans are disowning you. I thought the Simpsons had the biggest homer. But apparently it's you.

chiefzilla1501 06-28-2009 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mile High Mania (Post 5869181)
How the hell did this thread morph into Elway, Montana...



Heh, I'm not taking the bait... you can 'prove anything' using statistics. Hell, statistically speaking, the Chiefs have a shot at a title in 2009. Statistically speaking, the Chiefs were the greatest team of the 90s and they did so little with all that power....

Statistically speaking, Clayton is a male and there are lots of needy women...
I hope there isn't a thread swerve.

Elway was an unbelievable QB and 99% of Chiefs' fans don't dispute that.

Case closed.

Quesadilla Joe 06-28-2009 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5869277)
Right.

Because Peyton Manning doesn't call audibles.
Because Tom Brady didn't do it with his pocket presence and quick release.
Because Kurt Warner didn't do it
Those guys are good, but they aren't Elway. Peyton Manning had a great WR core his ENTIRE career.

Tom Brady is overrated. He wouldn't have one SB trophy if his team didn't cheat.

Elway only had comparable talent to what Warner had his last 4 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5869277)
And before you use your reeruned argument about how Elway had no one around him (because I know it's coming), I'm sure that Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey and the outstanding coaching of Mike Shanahan had NOTHING to do with Elway's success.
AGAIN. That was Elway's last 4 years here. He went to 3 SB's with players like Ricky Natiel, Sammy Winder, Gerald Whilhite, Marc Jackson, Vance Johnson, Steve Watson, and Steve Sewell....
Here... Let me post this again because it seems like you missed it.
Quote:
“So far in Elway’s career, his offensive linemen and wide receivers have been voted to the Pro Bowl a combined seven times. In Dan Marino’s 15 seasons, Miami Dolphins offensive linemen and wide receivers have been selected to the Pro Bowl 30 times. … Though usually surrounded by a human rummage sale, Elway has won more games as a starter than any other quarterback in NFL history (148). He had more 4th quarter or overtime come from behnd victories than any other QB in history. (49) It’s the equivalent of carving Mount Rushmore with a spoon or composing Beethoven’s Ninth on a kazoo.
But Elway’s career has been about more than just winning. It has been about escaping defeat a half page from the end of the novel, leaping over pits of fire with the microdot hidden in his cigarette lighter. On first down Elway was ‘pretty average,’ his Stanford coach Paul Wiggin once said. But when the elementary school kids are being held hostage and the detonator reads 00:03, who would you rather have clipping the wires than Elway? He may be the only quarterback in history who could stand on his own two-yard line, trailing by five with less than two minutes to play, no timeouts left, windchill –5, and cause the opposing coach to mutter, ‘We’re in trouble.’” --Rick Reilly, Sports Illustrated, qtd. in Austin Murphy’s The Super Bowl: Sports Greatest Championship
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5869277)
And your argument is suggesting that Kyle Orton will be as good as Kurt Warner, Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Big Ben, etc... etc... etc.... QBs, who apparently wouldn't have made the Super Bowl if not for a superb supporting cast.

Again, even the Broncos' fans are disowning you. I thought the Simpsons had the biggest homer. But apparently it's you.
I never said Kyle Orton wouuld be as good as Joe Montana or Peyton Manning. Actually I said I think he could be one of the top 10-15 QB's in the league this year. I think Orton will be solid and he won't hold us back. We can win playoff games with Orton if Denver has a respectable defense.

All QB's need a really talented team to win SB's. It's just Elway can do more with less than any QB in NFL history.

milkman 06-28-2009 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 5869365)
Tom Brady is overrated. He wouldn't have one SB trophy if his team didn't cheat.
Oh, Jesus.

Shut the **** up kettle.

Quesadilla Joe 06-28-2009 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 5869370)
Oh, Jesus.

Shut the **** up kettle.
:rolleyes:

LaChapelle 06-28-2009 05:13 PM
Shanahan kept the Broncos on the cusp of the playoffs for over a decade. For some expecting anything less than 9 wins in a season, let alone more than one season. Is not a possiblility, that's just bat shit crazy. Times they change.

JOhn 06-28-2009 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 5869370)
Oh, Jesus.

Shut the **** up kettle.
No F'ing shit.


The Donkey fan calling another team out for cheating?LMAO

BossChief 06-28-2009 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 5868994)
Elway was the only QB in the history of the NFL who could single-handedly carry teams to wins. If the rookies we drafted are good, we are a much better team with Orton than we were with Cutler.
This might be the dumbest thing I have ever read concerning football.

That is a HUGE statement.

Just Passin' By 06-28-2009 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 5869365)
Those guys are good, but they aren't Elway. Peyton Manning had a great WR core his ENTIRE career.

Tom Brady is overrated. He wouldn't have one SB trophy if his team didn't cheat.
Do you even bother thinking before you post bullshit like this?

StcChief 06-28-2009 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOhn (Post 5869450)
No F'ing shit.


The Donkey fan calling another team out for cheating?LMAO
Salary cap, schmalary cap...

cut blocking....

cooking spray is good...

forgetting to bring the correct color uniforms on the road...

shall the list go on....

Farzin 06-28-2009 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarrysKOOLAID (Post 5867975)
OH SNAP!!!!! Nice!!!:clap:

I'm writing this down Farzin. Good stuff.
Yeah...obviously it's always "good stuff" when someone just praises their team :rolleyes:

Pablo 06-28-2009 06:25 PM
Mods..please change dickbag's name back to cutler1735 or whatever it was.

He deserves it.

Farzin 06-28-2009 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostRockPablo (Post 5869520)
Mods..please change dickbag's name back to cutler1735 or whatever it was.

He deserves it.
Orton1735 has a better ring to it! It is the new QB after all (Assuming he beats out the other QB's...)

chiefzilla1501 06-28-2009 07:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 5869365)
Those guys are good, but they aren't Elway. Peyton Manning had a great WR core his ENTIRE career.
Idiot. By the way, Peyton Manning calls about 75% of the plays. He is the team's offensive coordinator. But okay.

Quote:
Tom Brady is overrated. He wouldn't have one SB trophy if his team didn't cheat.
Idiot. Tom Brady then made a Super Bowl and went 16-0 in a year where the Pats didn't cheat.

Quote:
Elway only had comparable talent to what Warner had his last 4 years.
Idiot. Warner is believed to be arguably the most accurate QB of our generation. Interesting that with the same supporting cast, the Rams never made a Super Bowl under Bulger.

Quote:
AGAIN. That was Elway's last 4 years here. He went to 3 SB's with players like Ricky Natiel, Sammy Winder, Gerald Whilhite, Marc Jackson, Vance Johnson, Steve Watson, and Steve Sewell....
Here... Let me post this again because it seems like you missed it.
I didn't miss it. You're just plain wrong.

Let me get this straight. You're arguing that Elway is the only QB in history that can win a Super Bowl on his own. And then you suggest that QBs can only make the Super Bowl if they're surrounded with all-world talent. And then you suggest that Orton can lead this team to the top as long as the defense gets to AVERAGE (forget about the "all-world" argument). And then you suggest that Cutler is elite. And then you suggest that it's not a big deal to lose him. Don't think I'm not paying attention to the massive inconsistencies in your homeristic arguments.

Quote:
I never said Kyle Orton wouuld be as good as Joe Montana or Peyton Manning. Actually I said I think he could be one of the top 10-15 QB's in the league this year. I think Orton will be solid and he won't hold us back. We can win playoff games with Orton if Denver has a respectable defense.

All QB's need a really talented team to win SB's. It's just Elway can do more with less than any QB in NFL history.
You are suggesting that Peyton and Montana and Warner only won Super Bowls because they had great supporting casts. Therefore, you are suggesting that those Super Bowls had NOTHING to do with the quality of the QBs. And that any QB could have made a Super Bowl with those supporting casts. If I am putting things together correctly, you are implying that Kyle Orton could have taken the 1999 Rams to the Super Bowl and won. You are suggesting that he could have taken any of those Colts teams to the Super Bowl and won because they have an outstanding receiver corps.

That is suggesting that Orton can lead a team as effectively as Manning and Warner. And that makes you, once again, uber-idiot.

Quesadilla Joe 06-28-2009 08:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5869624)
Idiot. By the way, Peyton Manning calls about 75% of the plays. He is the team's offensive coordinator. But okay.


Idiot. Tom Brady then made a Super Bowl and went 16-0 in a year where the Pats didn't cheat.


Idiot. Warner is believed to be arguably the most accurate QB of our generation. Interesting that with the same supporting cast, the Rams never made a Super Bowl under Bulger.


I didn't miss it. You're just plain wrong.

Let me get this straight. You're arguing that Elway is the only QB in history that can win a Super Bowl on his own. And then you suggest that QBs can only make the Super Bowl if they're surrounded with all-world talent. And then you suggest that Orton can lead this team to the top as long as the defense gets to AVERAGE (forget about the "all-world" argument). And then you suggest that Cutler is elite. And then you suggest that it's not a big deal to lose him. Don't think I'm not paying attention to the massive inconsistencies in your homeristic arguments.



You are suggesting that Peyton and Montana and Warner only won Super Bowls because they had great supporting casts. Therefore, you are suggesting that those Super Bowls had NOTHING to do with the quality of the QBs. And that any QB could have made a Super Bowl with those supporting casts. If I am putting things together correctly, you are implying that Kyle Orton could have taken the 1999 Rams to the Super Bowl and won. You are suggesting that he could have taken any of those Colts teams to the Super Bowl and won because they have an outstanding receiver corps.

That is suggesting that Orton can lead a team as effectively as Manning and Warner. And that makes you, once again, uber-idiot.
You have a great way of missing the entire point of posts and spinning it into shit. Good job.

chiefzilla1501 06-28-2009 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 5869660)
You have a great way of missing the entire point of posts and spinning it into shit. Good job.
You have a great way of posting shit and spinning it into a missed point. Good job to you too.

Spicy McHaggis 06-28-2009 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 5867484)
Kyle Orton is for real.
I agree with you. Kyle Orton is a corporeal being on this plane of existence.


But he sucks at football.

Quesadilla Joe 06-28-2009 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5869665)
You have a great way of posting shit and spinning it into a missed point. Good job to you too.
You just like to put words in my mouth by exaggerating what I said.

LaChapelle 06-28-2009 09:24 PM
I would like to help. But like expecting a drunk person to make a rational decision or an invalid to care for himself. I'll just pat you on the head and ask if there's school tomorrow?

FAX 06-28-2009 09:36 PM
Elway was an "under guard" loser until he was attacked by brain bugs which entered his cranium via the ear canal one night while he was in a drunken stupor. They attached themselves to his optic nerve and the parietal lobe - that section of his noodle responsible for movement, orientation, and the perception of stimuli. Fortunately for him, the parasites allowed him to function more effectively on the football field. Of course, had the NFL known about brain bugs at the time, they would have been declared illegal and, therefore, Elway would have been disqualified to play and any SB victories (as well as any other wins credited to him throughout his career) held to be null and void by the league. He benefited from a freak accident of nature. Nothing more.

FAX

MMXcalibur 06-29-2009 09:46 AM
I don't think Denver has the worst QB situation. Personally, I don't think Orton is THAT bad, but at the same time, he's no world beater. The defense still sucks in Denver and that should be their sieve (again). I think the Donks finish 5-11...at best.

As for Kansas City, I think our QB situation isn't too bad. We have a new QB who did really well with a slew of weapons around him in New England. The kicker is seeing if Cassel can make chicken salad out of chicken shit here in KC. Our backup is a quarterback that can at least keep the offense moving up the field. Could be worse....

Lzen 06-29-2009 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 5868055)
I don't know why people argue the Moreno point he is 99% certain to be the easy offensive rookie of the year, and saying you'd take LJ over him is sad, a 30 year old RB with major carries an attitude problem over a guy who's considered a team player that's in his early 20s?

There are lots of things wrong with Denver, their defense blows, they're going to rely on Kyle Orton which is a crapshoot, Brandon Marshall is a reerun, but Knowshon Moreno is going to be damn good.
Moreno was an incredible back in college. The key here being "college". He has yet to prove he can do anything in the NFL. While I believe he will probably be successful in the NFL, there is never any guarantee of that. I would think for a guy who is supposed to be such a draft guru, you would be aware of the possibility of busts.

Many, many players throughout the years who were great college players didn't live up to the hype once they got to the pros. Therefore, I think it is a little premature to be making predictions on a guy who has never taken a single snap in the NFL.

Another possible scenario is that Moreno will struggle his first year due to teams not respecting Orton and just stacking the box.

Lzen 06-29-2009 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 5869071)
No QB has went to more Super Bowl's and got bent over than John Elway did.

Just say'n.
FYP. Just sayin'

CoMoChief 06-29-2009 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 5867492)
Packers should be MUCH higher. Aaron Rodgers is a great QB.
Great? No

Frazod 06-29-2009 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostRockPablo (Post 5869520)
Mods..please change dickbag's name back to cutler1735 or whatever it was.

He deserves it.
Just change it to AutumnWind Jr. He really deserves that.

JD10367 06-29-2009 10:54 AM
I see an Elway debate sprang up here.

I think it's hard to compare great quarterbacks, really. So much had to do with the team around them, the type of league it was at the time, the things that QB could do that were unique to the NFL at that time, etc.,. I mean, Dan Marino was a great QB, but never won a ring. I think it's easier to talk about groups of QBs.

The top group, IMO, would have in it: Marino, Montana, Elway, Brady, Peyton Manning, Unitas, Tittle, possibly Aikman and Favre (as much as I detest him) or even Bradshaw (say what you want about him, the guy knew how to win and was tough as nails).

The second-tier would be guys like Warren Moon, Steve Young, Dan Fouts, maybe Stabler and Plunkett, Jim Kelly, guys like that.

A tough guy to place, right now, is Roethlisberger. He doesn't always do it pretty, sometimes resembling Favre, but he manages to get it done and has won the SB twice now. Depending upon how the rest of his career goes will tell whether he's top tier or second-tier.

When it comes to the top-tier guys, I think any of them in their prime make a great case for "best ever". The ones who don't have the obvious natural talent, seem to have the intangibles of leadership and decision-making and level-headedness (i.e. comparing, say, a Marino or Elway to a Brady or Montana).

As for Orton, Cassel, and Cutler... let's wait a bit before we decide to carve any busts for Canton.

As for where the Broncos rank in QB grouping, I think it's too low. I despise them, but their QB grouping isn't worst in the league.

CoMoChief 06-29-2009 10:55 AM
Denver sucks. Their front office ****ed them for years to come. Their offense will be shittier than their defense if that's even possible, End of argument.

Thread over.

evolve27 06-29-2009 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claythan (Post 5867482)
To the Mane!
lol

chiefzilla1501 06-29-2009 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD10367 (Post 5870393)
I see an Elway debate sprang up here.

I think it's hard to compare great quarterbacks, really. So much had to do with the team around them, the type of league it was at the time, the things that QB could do that were unique to the NFL at that time, etc.,. I mean, Dan Marino was a great QB, but never won a ring. I think it's easier to talk about groups of QBs.

The top group, IMO, would have in it: Marino, Montana, Elway, Brady, Peyton Manning, Unitas, Tittle, possibly Aikman and Favre (as much as I detest him) or even Bradshaw (say what you want about him, the guy knew how to win and was tough as nails).

The second-tier would be guys like Warren Moon, Steve Young, Dan Fouts, maybe Stabler and Plunkett, Jim Kelly, guys like that.

A tough guy to place, right now, is Roethlisberger. He doesn't always do it pretty, sometimes resembling Favre, but he manages to get it done and has won the SB twice now. Depending upon how the rest of his career goes will tell whether he's top tier or second-tier.

When it comes to the top-tier guys, I think any of them in their prime make a great case for "best ever". The ones who don't have the obvious natural talent, seem to have the intangibles of leadership and decision-making and level-headedness (i.e. comparing, say, a Marino or Elway to a Brady or Montana).

As for Orton, Cassel, and Cutler... let's wait a bit before we decide to carve any busts for Canton.

As for where the Broncos rank in QB grouping, I think it's too low. I despise them, but their QB grouping isn't worst in the league.
I realize this is a thread swerve, but I'd like to throw my 2 cents anyway.

Big Ben is a remarkable QB. And I'd love to have him on my team. But Montana and Brady won Super Bowls even in years where they didn't have dominant defenses. Do I think he could have led the Rams or the Saints to the Super Bowl? I honestly don't think so. The Cardinals? I honestly don't think so.

I know that's a tough argument to make because most QBs have a different style, but I think Ben has the luxury of winning games where they score 20 points of less that most QBs don't have.

JD10367 06-29-2009 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5870611)
Big Ben is a remarkable QB. And I'd love to have him on my team. But Montana and Brady won Super Bowls even in years where they didn't have dominant defenses. Do I think he could have led the Rams or the Saints to the Super Bowl? I honestly don't think so. The Cardinals? I honestly don't think so.

I know that's a tough argument to make because most QBs have a different style, but I think Ben has the luxury of winning games where they score 20 points of less that most QBs don't have.
On the other hand, the Patriots' SBs weren't high scorers and they won them all by a FG. :shrug: It's hard to say about Roethlsomethin', hence the reason I don't quite know where he fits yet. It would be great to have an alternate universe to see, for example, how Brady would have done with the Colts and Manning with the Pats... or how Thigpen would've done on last year's Pats and Cassel on last year's Chiefs. But I do agree that Ben's pretty damn good, for a guy who clomps around like Frankenstein and stops cars with his head. :) And he was bangin' Missy Peregrym, which earns him bonus points...

Mile High Mania 06-29-2009 12:46 PM
This is a crazy thread, but it's good reading...

milkman 06-29-2009 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD10367 (Post 5870393)
I see an Elway debate sprang up here.

I think it's hard to compare great quarterbacks, really. So much had to do with the team around them, the type of league it was at the time, the things that QB could do that were unique to the NFL at that time, etc.,. I mean, Dan Marino was a great QB, but never won a ring. I think it's easier to talk about groups of QBs.

The top group, IMO, would have in it: Marino, Montana, Elway, Brady, Peyton Manning, Unitas, Tittle, possibly Aikman and Favre (as much as I detest him) or even Bradshaw (say what you want about him, the guy knew how to win and was tough as nails).

The second-tier would be guys like Warren Moon, Steve Young, Dan Fouts, maybe Stabler and Plunkett, Jim Kelly, guys like that.

A tough guy to place, right now, is Roethlisberger. He doesn't always do it pretty, sometimes resembling Favre, but he manages to get it done and has won the SB twice now. Depending upon how the rest of his career goes will tell whether he's top tier or second-tier.

When it comes to the top-tier guys, I think any of them in their prime make a great case for "best ever". The ones who don't have the obvious natural talent, seem to have the intangibles of leadership and decision-making and level-headedness (i.e. comparing, say, a Marino or Elway to a Brady or Montana).

As for Orton, Cassel, and Cutler... let's wait a bit before we decide to carve any busts for Canton.

As for where the Broncos rank in QB grouping, I think it's too low. I despise them, but their QB grouping isn't worst in the league.
I wouldn't put Farve in that first group.

For all the numbers he has put up, he also has cost his team more opportunities to advance in the playoffs with some ridiculous interceptions.

He has 28 interceptions in 22 career playoff games.

You simply can not keep giving the ball to the other team like he has and win.

-King- 06-29-2009 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 5870997)
I wouldn't put Farve in that first group.

For all the numbers he has put up, he also has cost his team more opportunities to advance in the playoffs with some ridiculous interceptions.

He has 28 interceptions in 22 career playoff games.

You simply can not keep giving the ball to the other team like he has and win.
That's why of all the GREAT quarterbacks, I always say Brett is probably the last guy I'd want as qb for my team. I know atleast 5 I would rather have.

Halfcan 06-29-2009 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 5867484)
The Raiders, Browns, Jaguars, Redskins, Vikings (without Favre), Lions, Jets, Bucs, and 49ers are all in worse shape than the Broncos.

Kyle Orton is for real.
STFU based on what??????


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