ROFL What other options are available?

I think it's because of the mixed messages. Signing a 27 year old QB to a huge extension when you already have his rights is a win now move, as is signing a 30+ year old safety, 32 year old guard, a bunch of WRs in their mid 30's, etc.

I think people thought that Cassel would be operating behind a better offensive line and throwing to Bowe, Engram, Toomer, and Bradley.

Ultimately, the failure of the offensive line led to a crushing of their hopes, as it rendered many of the older players useless and it gives a feeling of listlessness to the rebuild.

The "old guys" brought in for leadership, like Zach Thomas, were quickly euthanized. It's just been a bizarre series of moves, to be honest.

We might have a bit more talent if we hadn't shoehorned in a 3-4 that required us to use back to backs on DL in a deep offensive draft...

In all honesty, Brown is the only one I really wanted. I wanted Leonard mainly bc what he can on special teams more than defense. The other guys were just cheaper 3/4 options than what we did.

You could also do vice versa. You sign your vets and draft guys at the same time.

In the Vermeil era, there were plaenty of good vets signed, but, they didn't draft well. If they did it would be a lot different today.

For a new regime trying to build a foundation this offseason was epic fail.

Look on the bright side we won't be getting rid of any great players this offseason since there going to be none

Allen=Albert, Cottam, Morgan, Really?
Gonzales=?

This post reeks of truthiness.

the part that bothered me the most was trade for what is "your franchise quarterback" and then not putting him in a position to succeed. They have zero offensive line to show for.

I could live with a DL rotation of:

RDE: Dunlap/Sidbury
3T: Dorsey/Gilbert
NT: Tyler/Edwards
LDE: Gilbert/Hali

Hell, on third downs, you could move Gilbert inside and rush either Sidbury or Hali off the left side, and you'd basically have Spagnuolo's four aces scheme.

The biggest problem in the offseason was Pioli and Haley thought it was just Herm and Carl were the problem, and they could waltz in a win with what was on hand.

That's sure what it looks like, a couple of vets and a QB and they'd win 8 games...if they really watched tape and evaluated it that way, that's very scary.

I think another problem was ego.

I couldn't understand benching DBowe for who? Terrance Copper. And what was Haley trying to prove.

Why is DJ on the bench? When our linebackers suck and he is the best one we have. The fact they're starting Demorrio Williams over DJ just proves to be stupidity.

I think you're allowed to crap players too.

This one was strange to me, but I wasn't around. I don't know what was going on there.

Isn't that how we got in this mess?

I'm not sure the Chiefs know what was going on based upon how the offseason looked.

Only if they aren't learning from it.

I believe so, yes.

If they watched tape from last year and evaluated that we just needed a QB and some guys for leadership, what's that say for their ability to evaluate talent?

you want instant results, you need to move along. instant is never as good as when you do it the right way. while FA is important, i have no problem with them not bringing in any overpriced under producing players. going into year 3 after a couple of drafts thats when you sign some free agents, to get you over the hump. besides, we were more than a few FA signings away from anything. i don't care if they go 3-13 or 8-8. its the same record to me, because both will send you home in january. sorry dude, you have to give this some time to clean up the crap that was on this roster. your stance on this is just plain dumb, and unrealistic.

ya, thats what they were thinking when they cut or traded 30 guys...


god you people are dumb.

It's not really 30..basically every team turns over 10 guys a year and they're counting the practice squad as 10 also.

it's not really 30???? where have you been? we have 30 new players on the roster. so yeah it's 30

I think they saw that as a start. I don't think Pioli expected we'd win 8 games this year. He all but said we weren't going to win much. I'm not defending all of their moves, but I think their expectations were fairly realistic.

You can't put a team on the field that looks like it doesn't belong like yesterday, in today's league even bad teams should be able to compete.

he basically let us all know that it would be a fairly lengthy process in his press conference when he was hired.

IIRC he said that the process would take some time and ownership acknowledged that fact and they would get the time needed to get it right.

The next time someone says the thought they would win 8 games that transcript should be thrown out

Are you happy to know that for the most part they just replaced turds with turds so it's still a turd?

Their free agent activity suggests otherwise.

no matter what you think of the players the fact remains that they turned over 30 guys from the roster

don't get me wrong, it sucks there is hardly any talent, and they're really no better than last year, but at least the ship has a direction instead of turning endlessly in circles.

Turning it over to turn it over isn't a success, would you rather have 5 guys who can do their jobs or 30 who can't?

Im sorry. the Chiefs way isn't the right way. They're not gaining anything when they replace McIntosh with Ndukwe. Neither when they decide to resign Niswanger. Or sign Mike Goff when he clearly is done and coming off an injury. This is the Chiefs way of building the offensive line?

Im looking for improvement. This isn't improvement. i want progress to see this team get better and head in the right direction. how do you get better? By going out and getting better players then you have now.

im not saying they have to be an 11-5 team today?If you're gonna do it "right" rebuild the offensive line correctly so that way you put your QB in a position to succeed. Why spend all this money on your QB, and trade for him when he has zero protection. ZERO. Does that sound dumb?

i think that had to do with having guys who would be accountable for the play on the field. And having guys that have actually won some nfl games.


Vrabel showed yesterday that he will get on people. Did you see him when a penalty took away that sack? Do you notice the way he gets on guys in the huddle?

We used a draft pick to trade for a guy that was getting cut to replace McIntosh when he might be even worse...

How does that make any sense?

what draft pick did they use?

I see a guy who can't believe he went from the Patriots to this pile of crap.

I used to think at least give the Chiefs credit they tried to get players. But now I don't think that way. When you replace scrub with scrub I don't credit that as trying.

Translation: We didn't sign a bunch of free agents to satisfy my hope for 8-8.

5 guys were released from the practice squad and five guys were cut from IR.

That makes twenty. Of those twenty, five are on other NFL Rosters: Johnston, McBride, Pollard, Babin and Gonzalez.

At least 8-8 is better then 2-14.

List all 30 please

He might want to find a mirror, step in front of it, and "get on" the guy looking back at him, because that guy isn't getting it done.

They should have atleast made enough moves to let Cassel show if he's good or not.

No one thought the Chiefs were good or going 8-8 but we're absurdly bad.

No, it's not, especially depending on your roster.

If you're a young team, it might be better. If you're an old team, it sucks.

Yesterday as I watch fuzzy, erratic streaming video on my computer, my mind reached back over the 40+ years that I have been a Chiefs fan.

1964 I returned from my first overseas assignment as young sailor with just over 2 years on my first hitch and found out, Wow! The Kansas City Chiefs football team and the new AFL had surfaced. I climbed right onboard and instantly became a fan. I followed every game and got to a couple games when stationed in San Diego. I also grew an immediate dislike for the Chargers and hated the Raiders. Denver was a floor mat and would be for years to come.

In 1967, dark thirty one morning, I was sitting on a gunboat on some forgotten river in the Mekong Delta, I scoured the airwaves with a shortwave radio trying to find the AFRN broadcast and searched intently for the game. I finally found it just before the half and was happy the score was so close, 14-10 Green Bay. About half way through the 3rd period it faded out. As I was searching again, Charlie lit up the river edge with a “tufa salute” and we laid some massive fire at the muzzle flashes. It only last a few minutes and when things calmed down, I found that my shortwave radio had been knocked over the transom when I scrambled for the M60. I was crushed when I found out a few days later they lost

It was difficult to follow the Chiefs progress from then on. I spend all of my Navy time overseas until my discharge in ’74. So with others I then followed them through some pretty tough years. The seventies and eighties was pretty dismal. Seems like all the big name (and big money) players always went to other consistently successful franchises while the Chiefs had so many marginal players.

During those hard years, it never entered my mind that Lamar Hunt might be the on constant for the failures. Once in an interview someone joked to him that the Chiefs were losing something like a million dollars a year. He smiled and said that if that continued, he would be broke in a hundred years.

Hunt did so much for the AFL, Kansas City and (I thought) the Chiefs. It would be hard to really think he was the reason for such mediocre teams, almost sacrilege. Yet he was so tight with the purse. But I think you may be correct that the onus is on Lamar’s son. Unless he starts to pony up then I reckon nothing will change. Yes, the team will improve but I have resolved that going to another big dance will probably not happen in my lifetime.

What makes a successful franchise? Look at the Steelers! Read – Six, that is SIX rings.
I think the reason for the success is that the Rooney clan is willing to spend the bucks to get to the dance. Franchises are built on bucks not luck.

Flame me it you want but I have lost a lot of faith in my team. Nearing my 66th year, I am too old to worry about it. No, I will never leave my team and will just hang on and hope. Even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while.

Wouldn't it be funny if Vrabel yelled at Washington and he said back "look you old broke dick mother****er maybe if you give me some of your HGH so my chin grows out like a dick I can win some titles too!"

True. But are the Chiefs old?

dane there are articles out on how many guys have left the team and every on has it at 30, i dont have time to look and list all of them

All 32 teams replace scrubs with scrubs. They also are forced to replace elite superstars with scrubs.
Don't get your knickers in a bunch over the O-Line. Goff will be gone and retired soon enough and by that time may have managed to replace him with a solid 4th rounder.
Relax yo.

nope like the 2nd youngest still

Blind pigs don't rush the passer

I don't define bringing in Vrabel, Thomas, Engram, etc. as a "win now" move. Pioli wanted some veteran presence that knew what it was like to be on a good team. Maybe you don't agree that those moves are beneficial, but to me it indicates that he knew we had a long road ahead of us.

Sure you do.

I just told you differently.

It's not 30, it's 20. Five were released from IR and five were practice squad guys.

That leaves 20. Out of those 20, five are on other NFL teams. 4 out of 5 are defensive players that don't fit the 3-4 and the fifth is Gonzalez.

It's a disingenuous statement and intellectually dishonest.

so dane those 5 IR guys and PS guy arent on the roster?

This.

A savvy vet installs a mentality that can be carried on from player to player. The Chiefs should be trying to build a religion.

Now that I think of it, who would really want to play for the Chiefs?

I mean, TG wanted out. JA wanted out. I could understand their reason for leaving. I think when you're a losing franchise it damages your reputation. Kansas City is not an attractive destination for the premier FAs.

I do think the draft is a good way to go. To model teams like Pittsburgh, Indy is cool. But, the Chiefs suck at drafting. Which is even worse. I can't think of any positives this team could do?

Nope.

Those guys are in no way, shape or form part of the 53 man roster nor do they count towards the Salary Cap.

And with this last ridiculously hyperbolic statement of doom, I exit the thread....

well some nfl types disagree with the turnover rate. i'm not arguing about that with you dane, sorry i dont have time tonight:D

Compared to the first three games last year I think they are better.

I'm still waiting for Clark to make a statement that he is dedicated to turning this team into a winner with something other than lip service. That statement would be running the 7 up players (never had it, never will) out of town. There is no excuse how we can essentially take last year's offensive line and only add Goff to it and call that a good job. We need to ditch the players that are only out there taking a paycheck as well. If you don't want to work to get to the Super Bowl then work somewhere else. Right now it seems our best players don't want to play. They want to look good when they get the ball, but do nothing otherwise.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k...OFTHEWORLD.jpg


lmao

Wait, signing an old guard was stupid, but an old center who would have cost even more was a good move? I'm confused.

Sometimes you have to get rid of players that don't fit. Locker room cancers, etc.

Not if you're willing to run the ball to protect him despite being behind. The QB was available *now*. Not later. Now. If they wanted that guy, and they did, they had no choice but to pull the trigger *now*. Now they have to keep him alive until they can put the rest of the pieces together.

I'm not sure what many of you expected this year or remember how really bad the team was last year? I have seen improvement in all areas of this team; defense, offense, special teams, coaching, scouting, football operations, play calling, schemes, and talent. Even in the loss against the Eagles they showed themselves to be a much more disciplined and conditioned team than the third game last year when they got embarrassed by Atlanta.

On this thread Redthat keeps harping on the OLine. It is not good, but even here the talent is better than last year. Anyone who thinks Goff and Ndukwe are not an improvement over Jones and McIntosh is seriously mistaken.

This team was so lacking in so many areas it is unrealistic to think they could completely remake the roster in one season and win against teams like Baltimore or Philly. The Raiders game was disappointing because the Chiefs should have won that game. But, are you guys going to really be disappointed if the Giants prove to be a more talented and experienced team this week?

I like what I have seen so far this season and fully expect this team to start winning some games around week 7 or 8. They may only win 3 or 4 games this year, but that would be a real improvement. Many of you guys seem to have forgotten how really bad this team was in 2008.

Clearly you are in fact no psychic.

We will have Tebow!!!1!!!!1!!!11

Then all NFL fans will bow toward the midwest (arrowhead).

We will have the messiah! We will have the power.

There can be only one TEBOW!!!!!!!

Here is what we got rid from the final roster (IR Included)

NFL
Tony Gonzalez - Falcons
Turk McBride - Lions
Andrew Carnhanan - Giants (IR)
Adrian Jones - Texans
Jason Babin - Eagles
Alfonso Boone - Chargers
Benard Pollard - Texans

Cut in NFL Training Camp
Damon Huard
Will Franklin
Rocky Boiman
Connor Barth
Brian Johnston

Cut from Chiefs Training Camp
Jeff Webb
Herb Taylor
Damion McIntosh
Weston Dacus

UFL
Quinn Gray
Tavares Washington
Oliver Celestin

Not in Training Camp
Kevin Robinson
Michael Merritt
Pat Thomas
Curtis Gatewood
David Macklin
Patrick Surtain
JP Darche
Donnie Edwards

The difference is the old center can still play where as everyone knew Goff was done any Charger fan would have told you that they pined to get him off the team last season.

I remember when I used to participate in these types of threads... usually in an attempt to hold off studying as long as possible.

This place is good at finishing off the brain cells the beer doesn't kill.

Wrong.

They weren't more disciplined on Sunday, and they surely haven't been more disciplined than the 2008 team through 3 weeks.

Week 1: (penalties/yardage)

2008: 2/15
2009: 3/15


Week 2:

2008: 5/36
2009: 9/70


Week 3:

2008: 3/13
2009: 10/90



10/64 in 2008, versus 22/175 in 2009.


That's NOTHING resembling improvement.

The Chiefs are not a smart or disciplined team, that's obvious.

and what if we're not lucky enough to know any of the three charger fans?

Wow, that is a telling statistic. I would have thought it would be the other way around. Now you are making me more nervous.

the problem is they are not talented enough to make those mistakes and win or even be competitive

Penalties have been a problem, but it does not tell a complete story as discipline is not measured in penalties alone. For example look at how many times the Chiefs QB has been sacked and how many interceptions thrown.

Week 1
2008: sacked 4/ intercepted 1
2009: 3/0

Week 2
2008: 5/2
2009: 2/2

Week 3
2008: 2/3
2009: 3/0

2008 total sacked 11, intercepted 6
2009 total sacked 8, intercepted 2

These numbers show better discipline from the offense in 2009 and it was against better defenses.

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If you make guys run a lot, and bestow upon them status of "Right 53", their football IQ magically goes up two standard deviations.

This isn't quite as effective as the penalty statistics because last year we didn't even have a QB playing the position. I'd sure hope the INT numbers would be down with our new "franchise" player.

And we've only played 2.5 games thus far this season, so that affects the numbers, too.

Warpath, is it your contention that penalties is the complete and absolute measure of the discipline of a football team?

What about route running discipline? What about discipline with blocking assignments? What about filling lanes and keeping assignments?

Anyone who has played the game knows discipline is more than penalty stats.

Thats like wiping your ass with your fingers when you run out of toilet paper, you could have at least gone for a hand towel or sock or something better.