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-   -   Chiefs Football Outsiders Ranks Matt Cassel 44th of 46 QBs (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=221370)

milkman 01-09-2010 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6426113)
I don't disagree, I just want to see Rodgers do something in the playoffs before I take him over Manning.
That's why I qualified it by saying that I "might" take him over Manning, depending on how the playoffs go.

Pioli Zombie 01-09-2010 10:24 AM
As far as the eye test, I also go by this : how much does it scare me for my team to face him?
As a Patriots fan,Dan Marino gave them some trouble in Miami early on in his career. But after the pounded the crap out of him the '85 AFCCG he never really scared me. He won a great shootout with Bledsoe in '94 but I never felt he was in the category of Montana or Elway. And in the playoffs, when did Dan Marino ever play great after the '84 AFCCG against the Steelers.
Dan Marino. All stats. Nothing else.
Posted via Mobile Device

Dylan 01-09-2010 12:24 PM
So the quarterback's rating is messed up by the performance of others?

How good was the blocking? ... Just asking. ...

NFL stats are mostly meaningless -- it is determined by the performance of others around them J/M/O

B_Ambuehl 01-09-2010 12:37 PM
Quote:
I dunno. He looked like he had what it takes last year. Perhaps it has something to do with having better coaching, and having decent players around you. Nah, can't be that...
No I noticed it last year too and even commented about it here. His '08 highlight film is around here somewhere and he went to a 2nd option about twice all season long. He took a multitude of sacks behind a Pats offensive line that consistently kept/keep Brady clean.

Quote:
So, what you're saying is, Cassel's no Brett Favre. Mmmkay.
The point I was trying to make is the way Favre's mind works makes him a gamer and Cassell doesn't have it. Favre and Romo are the closest mentally to NBA point guards. They see things without looking, react without thinking, feel the rush without knowing it's there. That can sometimes get them in trouble, but it also makes them gamers. Guys like Cassell, Dilfer, Boller, etc. have minds that operate entirely different. They play more like pure robots. Guys like Manning, Brady, and Rivers are more in the middle. They have enough of that gamer instinct in them to allow them to be successful, but I don't know of one pure robot type that has ever excelled in the modern NFL.

MTG#10 01-09-2010 12:41 PM
Green was pretty shitty his first year with us too, look how that turned out. Not saying Cassel will be as good as Green, but lets give him at least one more season before we declare him a total bust. I think we are going to see a totally different QB next season especially with Weis coming in.

milkman 01-09-2010 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl (Post 6426369)
No I noticed it last year too and even commented about it here. His '08 highlight film is around here somewhere and he went to a 2nd option about twice all season long. He took a multitude of sacks behind a Pats offensive line that consistently kept/keep Brady clean.



The point I was trying to make is the way Favre's mind works makes him a gamer and Cassell doesn't have it. Favre and Romo are the closest mentally to NBA point guards. They see things without looking, react without thinking, feel the rush without knowing it's there. That can sometimes get them in trouble, but it also makes them gamers. Guys like Cassell, Dilfer, Boller, etc. have minds that operate entirely different. They play more like pure robots. Guys like Manning, Brady, and Rivers are more in the middle. They have enough of that gamer instinct in them to allow them to be successful, but I don't know of one pure robot type that has ever excelled in the modern NFL.
In the pocket, Manning and Brady are far better than anyof the other names you mentioned.

Favre and Romo are "gamers" because they use their legs more than others, while still maintaining some semblence of a pocket presense.

However, QBs like Manning, Brady, Montana, and an up and coming Rivers move/ed in the pocket better and have a more instinctual feel for avoiding pressure while still working inside of the pocket.

TheGuardian 01-09-2010 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie (Post 6426114)
Don't knock Sanchez. His 63 yards passing carried the Jets into the playoffs
Posted via Mobile Device
Yes, and he "led" the Jets to a winning record.

Some posters here are full ****ing reerun.

Pioli Zombie 01-09-2010 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGuardian (Post 6426415)
Yes, and he "led" the Jets to a winning record.

Some posters here are full ****ing reerun.
Seriously, not since Tony Eason with the Patriots in 1985 has a qb been literally carried by his team. Put Manning on the Jets with that defense and running game and they go 16-0....um, since Caldwell isn't the coach.
Hell, Cassel showed in 2008 that if you put HIM on this Jets team they would have been 11-5 this year.
Posted via Mobile Device

TheGuardian 01-09-2010 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie (Post 6426426)
Seriously, not since Tony Eason with the Patriots in 1985 has a qb been literally carried by his team. Put Manning on the Jets with that defense and running game and they go 16-0....um, since Caldwell isn't the coach.
Hell, Cassel showed in 2008 that if you put HIM on this Jets team they would have been 11-5 this year.
Posted via Mobile Device
I don't know that I've seen a QB carried more than Sanchez has been this year. At least Dilfer was a good game manager and didn't turn the ball over. Sanchez sucks ****ing goat balls. Course some of us knew he would while stupid MF'ers talked about him as being a franchise QB. "If there's a franchise QB in the draft you pull the trigger on drafting him" and ****ing horse shit like that.

B_Ambuehl 01-09-2010 01:20 PM
Quote:
In the pocket, Manning and Brady are far better than anyof the other names you mentioned.

Favre and Romo are "gamers" because they use their legs more than others, while still maintaining some semblence of a pocket presense.

However, QBs like Manning, Brady, Montana, and an up and coming Rivers move/ed in the pocket better and have a more instinctual feel for avoiding pressure while still working inside of the pocket.

It's not just about pocket presence it's the way they see the field and process information. Favre and Romo often literally throw no look passes on the football field. They see everything at once, without zeroing in on anything. They're both extreme examples and perceptive ability of that degree is not rquired of NFL QBs, but you cant' be a total robot either. QBs like Cassell see and do only 1 thing at a time and whatever they're seeing, thinking, or doing is zeroed in on with tunnel vision. Rivers is the closest of the successful QBs to be that way but can also do things with his accuracy that Cassell can't.

'Hamas' Jenkins 01-09-2010 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaWolf (Post 6424072)
Outplayed Cassel? Based on these rankings? You're comparing a guy who played in 4 games and had 119 pass attempts to a guy who played 15 games and attempted 493 passes. The dude also threw 3 TD's and 9 INT's in those games and had a QB rating 20 points below Cassel, so I would hardly call that outplaying...
Holy shit, what a moron.

KCDC 01-09-2010 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 6424725)
Proof that you cant take a kid that only started 15 games through his whole college and pro career, combined, and drop him off on a 2-14 team devoid of talent and then proceed to deprive him of a qb coach and OC that is required for a young qb to learn and progress, right before the season starts, and then installing a new offense days before the season starts and expect him to succeed in that scenario. Or even be average.

I and many others expected a below average year from him, just not this bad.

Im willing to bet that he makes a pronounced jump up in these rankings by this time next year after some of these gaping weaknesses are fixed and he progresses as qbs with his work ethic do.
This

'Hamas' Jenkins 01-09-2010 01:28 PM
2001

<table class="stats" border="2" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr> <td align="center">Player</td> <td align="center">Team</td> <td align="center">DYAR</td> <td align="center">Rk</td> <td align="center">YAR</td> <td align="center">Rk</td> <td align="center">DVOA</td> <td align="center">Rk</td> <td align="center">VOA</td> <td align="center">Passes</td> <td align="center">Yards</td> <td align="center">EYds</td> <td align="center">TD</td> <td align="center">FK</td> <td align="center">FL</td> <td align="center">INT</td> <td align="center">C%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>K.Warner</td> <td>STL</td> <td align="right">1,667</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">1,630</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">33.1%</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">32.1%</td> <td align="right">590</td> <td align="right">4,706</td> <td align="right">5,305</td> <td align="right">36</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">22</td> <td align="right">69.3%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>R.Gannon</td> <td>OAK</td> <td align="right">1,052</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">1,248</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">16.4%</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">21.6%</td> <td align="right">576</td> <td align="right">3,685</td> <td align="right">4,506</td> <td align="right">27</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">8</td> <td align="right">66.7%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>S.McNair</td> <td>TEN</td> <td align="right">1,006</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">884</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">22.4%</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">18.3%</td> <td align="right">478</td> <td align="right">3,305</td> <td align="right">3,789</td> <td align="right">21</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">61.6%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>J.Garcia</td> <td>SF</td> <td align="right">922</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">965</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">13.9%</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">15.1%</td> <td align="right">540</td> <td align="right">3,526</td> <td align="right">4,221</td> <td align="right">32</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">62.9%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>B.Favre</td> <td>GB</td> <td align="right">833</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">925</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">12.1%</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">14.7%</td> <td align="right">553</td> <td align="right">3,939</td> <td align="right">4,014</td> <td align="right">32</td> <td align="right">10</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td align="right">61.7%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>P.Manning</td> <td>IND</td> <td align="right">829</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">677</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">11.1%</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td align="right">7.0%</td> <td align="right">577</td> <td align="right">3,954</td> <td align="right">4,124</td> <td align="right">26</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="right">63.5%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>J.Plummer</td> <td>ARI</td> <td align="right">581</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td align="right">558</td> <td align="right">8</td> <td align="right">5.9%</td> <td align="right">10</td> <td align="right">5.2%</td> <td align="right">566</td> <td align="right">3,621</td> <td align="right">3,543</td> <td align="right">18</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">58.2%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>J.Fiedler</td> <td>MIA</td> <td align="right">519</td> <td align="right">8</td> <td align="right">546</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">6.3%</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">7.3%</td> <td align="right">477</td> <td align="right">3,149</td> <td align="right">3,104</td> <td align="right">20</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">18</td> <td align="right">60.9%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>A.Van Pelt</td> <td>BUF</td> <td align="right">463</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">334</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">11.6%</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">5.3%</td> <td align="right">322</td> <td align="right">2,032</td> <td align="right">2,269</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">10</td> <td align="right">59.0%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>K.Stewart</td> <td>PIT</td> <td align="right">451</td> <td align="right">10</td> <td align="right">564</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td align="right">4.4%</td> <td align="right">11</td> <td align="right">8.3%</td> <td align="right">475</td> <td align="right">2,971</td> <td align="right">2,949</td> <td align="right">14</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">11</td> <td align="right">60.8%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>D.Flutie</td> <td>SD</td> <td align="right">397</td> <td align="right">11</td> <td align="right">394</td> <td align="right">11</td> <td align="right">0.4%</td> <td align="right">14</td> <td align="right">0.3%</td> <td align="right">551</td> <td align="right">3,313</td> <td align="right">3,301</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">17</td> <td align="right">57.0%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>T.Brady</td> <td>NE</td> <td align="right">371</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">379</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">1.4%</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">1.6%</td> <td align="right">464</td> <td align="right">2,823</td> <td align="right">2,896</td> <td align="right">18</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">11</td> <td align="right">64.1%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>B.Johnson</td> <td>TB</td> <td align="right">363</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">489</td> <td align="right">10</td> <td align="right">-1.7%</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">1.6%</td> <td align="right">609</td> <td align="right">3,260</td> <td align="right">3,583</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">11</td> <td align="right">61.3%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>D.Culpepper</td> <td>MIN</td> <td align="right">312</td> <td align="right">14</td> <td align="right">163</td> <td align="right">18</td> <td align="right">0.9%</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">-4.9%</td> <td align="right">411</td> <td align="right">2,529</td> <td align="right">2,515</td> <td align="right">14</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">64.7%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">Player</td> <td align="center">Team</td> <td align="center">DYAR</td> <td align="center">Rk</td> <td align="center">YAR</td> <td align="center">Rk</td> <td align="center">DVOA</td> <td align="center">Rk</td> <td align="center">VOA</td> <td align="center">Passes</td> <td align="center">Yards</td> <td align="center">EYds</td> <td align="center">TD</td> <td align="center">FK</td> <td align="center">FL</td> <td align="center">INT</td> <td align="center">C%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>M.Brunell</td> <td>JAC</td> <td align="right">284</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td align="right">308</td> <td align="right">14</td> <td align="right">-2.7%</td> <td align="right">18</td> <td align="right">-2.0%</td> <td align="right">536</td> <td align="right">3,020</td> <td align="right">3,093</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">61.6%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>C.Chandler</td> <td>ATL</td> <td align="right">223</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">270</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td align="right">-2.3%</td> <td align="right">17</td> <td align="right">-0.4%</td> <td align="right">415</td> <td align="right">2,700</td> <td align="right">2,324</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">61.6%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>K.Collins</td> <td>NYG</td> <td align="right">186</td> <td align="right">17</td> <td align="right">133</td> <td align="right">21</td> <td align="right">-6.4%</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">-7.8%</td> <td align="right">615</td> <td align="right">3,553</td> <td align="right">3,422</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">57.7%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>T.Dilfer</td> <td>SEA</td> <td align="right">151</td> <td align="right">18</td> <td align="right">174</td> <td align="right">17</td> <td align="right">6.4%</td> <td align="right">8</td> <td align="right">9.1%</td> <td align="right">136</td> <td align="right">1,005</td> <td align="right">897</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">59.8%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>D.McNabb</td> <td>PHI</td> <td align="right">120</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">227</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">-7.6%</td> <td align="right">22</td> <td align="right">-4.4%</td> <td align="right">536</td> <td align="right">3,033</td> <td align="right">2,886</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">11</td> <td align="right">58.1%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>J.Miller</td> <td>CHI</td> <td align="right">114</td> <td align="right">20</td> <td align="right">160</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">-6.8%</td> <td align="right">20</td> <td align="right">-5.1%</td> <td align="right">415</td> <td align="right">2,301</td> <td align="right">2,277</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">10</td> <td align="right">58.1%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>B.Griese</td> <td>DEN</td> <td align="right">105</td> <td align="right">21</td> <td align="right">90</td> <td align="right">22</td> <td align="right">-7.8%</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="right">-8.3%</td> <td align="right">495</td> <td align="right">2,711</td> <td align="right">2,667</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">18</td> <td align="right">61.4%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>C.Batch</td> <td>DET</td> <td align="right">90</td> <td align="right">22</td> <td align="right">157</td> <td align="right">20</td> <td align="right">-7.4%</td> <td align="right">21</td> <td align="right">-4.7%</td> <td align="right">379</td> <td align="right">2,346</td> <td align="right">2,078</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">11</td> <td align="right">59.1%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>A.Brooks</td> <td>NO</td> <td align="right">81</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="right">70</td> <td align="right">24</td> <td align="right">-9.0%</td> <td align="right">24</td> <td align="right">-9.3%</td> <td align="right">616</td> <td align="right">3,607</td> <td align="right">3,187</td> <td align="right">26</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">20</td> <td align="right">56.6%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>R.Cunningham</td> <td>BAL</td> <td align="right">64</td> <td align="right">24</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="right">26</td> <td align="right">-0.9%</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td align="right">-7.5%</td> <td align="right">104</td> <td align="right">511</td> <td align="right">588</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">62.1%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>T.Green</td> <td>KC</td> <td align="right">32</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="right">74</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="right">-10.3%</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="right">-9.1%</td> <td align="right">570</td> <td align="right">3,730</td> <td align="right">2,983</td> <td align="right">17</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="right">57.1%</td></tr></tbody></table>

'Hamas' Jenkins 01-09-2010 01:28 PM
<table class="stats" border="2" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td>S.Matthews</td> <td>CHI</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">26</td> <td align="right">-88</td> <td align="right">30</td> <td align="right">-11.1%</td> <td align="right">26</td> <td align="right">-21.0%</td> <td align="right">136</td> <td align="right">660</td> <td align="right">713</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">65.6%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>V.Testaverde</td> <td>NYJ</td> <td align="right">-16</td> <td align="right">27</td> <td align="right">34</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="right">-11.7%</td> <td align="right">27</td> <td align="right">-10.0%</td> <td align="right">468</td> <td align="right">2,639</td> <td align="right">2,454</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">14</td> <td align="right">59.4%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>T.Detmer</td> <td>DET</td> <td align="right">-52</td> <td align="right">28</td> <td align="right">-136</td> <td align="right">32</td> <td align="right">-16.2%</td> <td align="right">30</td> <td align="right">-24.4%</td> <td align="right">164</td> <td align="right">870</td> <td align="right">757</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">61.7%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">Player</td> <td align="center">Team</td> <td align="center">DYAR</td> <td align="center">Rk</td> <td align="center">YAR</td> <td align="center">Rk</td> <td align="center">DVOA</td> <td align="center">Rk</td> <td align="center">VOA</td> <td align="center">Passes</td> <td align="center">Yards</td> <td align="center">EYds</td> <td align="center">TD</td> <td align="center">FK</td> <td align="center">FL</td> <td align="center">INT</td> <td align="center">C%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>E.Grbac</td> <td>BAL</td> <td align="right">-60</td> <td align="right">29</td> <td align="right">-22</td> <td align="right">27</td> <td align="right">-13.0%</td> <td align="right">28</td> <td align="right">-11.8%</td> <td align="right">495</td> <td align="right">2,965</td> <td align="right">2,558</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">18</td> <td align="right">58.0%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Q.Carter</td> <td>DAL</td> <td align="right">-76</td> <td align="right">30</td> <td align="right">-44</td> <td align="right">28</td> <td align="right">-17.8%</td> <td align="right">32</td> <td align="right">-15.0%</td> <td align="right">189</td> <td align="right">1,038</td> <td align="right">808</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">52.0%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>M.McMahon</td> <td>DET</td> <td align="right">-101</td> <td align="right">31</td> <td align="right">-131</td> <td align="right">31</td> <td align="right">-23.8%</td> <td align="right">34</td> <td align="right">-27.3%</td> <td align="right">138</td> <td align="right">583</td> <td align="right">526</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">45.6%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>A.Wright</td> <td>DAL</td> <td align="right">-112</td> <td align="right">32</td> <td align="right">-161</td> <td align="right">33</td> <td align="right">-28.6%</td> <td align="right">36</td> <td align="right">-36.1%</td> <td align="right">107</td> <td align="right">560</td> <td align="right">366</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">50.0%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>T.Banks</td> <td>WAS</td> <td align="right">-136</td> <td align="right">33</td> <td align="right">-75</td> <td align="right">29</td> <td align="right">-16.5%</td> <td align="right">31</td> <td align="right">-14.1%</td> <td align="right">406</td> <td align="right">2,244</td> <td align="right">1,843</td> <td align="right">10</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">54.2%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>J.Kitna</td> <td>CIN</td> <td align="right">-138</td> <td align="right">34</td> <td align="right">-203</td> <td align="right">34</td> <td align="right">-14.8%</td> <td align="right">29</td> <td align="right">-16.5%</td> <td align="right">613</td> <td align="right">3,157</td> <td align="right">2,838</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">21</td> <td align="right">54.2%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>M.Vick</td> <td>ATL</td> <td align="right">-200</td> <td align="right">35</td> <td align="right">-279</td> <td align="right">37</td> <td align="right">-34.7%</td> <td align="right">39</td> <td align="right">-44.0%</td> <td align="right">137</td> <td align="right">691</td> <td align="right">415</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">44.2%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>R.Leaf</td> <td>DAL</td> <td align="right">-209</td> <td align="right">36</td> <td align="right">-205</td> <td align="right">35</td> <td align="right">-46.8%</td> <td align="right">40</td> <td align="right">-46.2%</td> <td align="right">103</td> <td align="right">444</td> <td align="right">189</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">51.7%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>M.Hasselbeck</td> <td>SEA</td> <td align="right">-229</td> <td align="right">37</td> <td align="right">-301</td> <td align="right">38</td> <td align="right">-21.1%</td> <td align="right">33</td> <td align="right">-24.2%</td> <td align="right">364</td> <td align="right">1,795</td> <td align="right">1,543</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">8</td> <td align="right">55.2%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>R.Johnson</td> <td>BUF</td> <td align="right">-271</td> <td align="right">38</td> <td align="right">-228</td> <td align="right">36</td> <td align="right">-29.1%</td> <td align="right">37</td> <td align="right">-26.2%</td> <td align="right">243</td> <td align="right">1,249</td> <td align="right">840</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td align="right">63.3%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>S.Wynn</td> <td>MIN</td> <td align="right">-374</td> <td align="right">39</td> <td align="right">-390</td> <td align="right">39</td> <td align="right">-67.8%</td> <td align="right">41</td> <td align="right">-70.3%</td> <td align="right">108</td> <td align="right">338</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">50.0%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>T.Couch</td> <td>CLE</td> <td align="right">-525</td> <td align="right">40</td> <td align="right">-440</td> <td align="right">40</td> <td align="right">-28.0%</td> <td align="right">35</td> <td align="right">-25.3%</td> <td align="right">514</td> <td align="right">2,741</td> <td align="right">1,794</td> <td align="right">17</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">21</td> <td align="right">60.0%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>C.Weinke</td> <td>CAR</td> <td align="right">-665</td> <td align="right">41</td> <td align="right">-616</td> <td align="right">41</td> <td align="right">-29.2%</td> <td align="right">38</td> <td align="right">-27.9%</td> <td align="right">577</td> <td align="right">2,854</td> <td align="right">2,054</td> <td align="right">11</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">54.7%</td></tr></tbody></table>

'Hamas' Jenkins 01-09-2010 01:29 PM
What's that? Oh, Trent Green in his god awful 2001....played above replacement level, ranking 25th/41 QBs.

OnTheWarpath15 01-09-2010 01:29 PM
Trent Green, 2001: Above replacement level.

'Hamas' Jenkins 01-09-2010 01:31 PM
The 1996 Chiefs who missed the playoffs in Bono's last year:

PASSING: Minimum 100 passes, 47 players ranked

<table class="stats" border="2" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr> <td align="center">Player</td> <td align="center">Team</td> <td align="center">DYAR</td> <td align="center">Rk</td> <td align="center">YAR</td> <td align="center">Rk</td> <td align="center">DVOA</td> <td align="center">Rk</td> <td align="center">VOA</td> <td align="center">Passes</td> <td align="center">Yards</td> <td align="center">EYds</td> <td align="center">TD</td> <td align="center">FK</td> <td align="center">FL</td> <td align="center">INT</td> <td align="center">C%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>B.Favre</td> <td>GB</td> <td align="right">967</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">894</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">14.7%</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">12.8%</td> <td align="right">588</td> <td align="right">3,703</td> <td align="right">4,328</td> <td align="right">39</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">60.0%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>V.Testaverde</td> <td>BAL</td> <td align="right">967</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">835</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">13.9%</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td align="right">10.5%</td> <td align="right">590</td> <td align="right">3,941</td> <td align="right">4,420</td> <td align="right">33</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">59.3%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>D.Marino</td> <td>MIA</td> <td align="right">844</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">837</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">22.7%</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">22.5%</td> <td align="right">403</td> <td align="right">2,814</td> <td align="right">3,154</td> <td align="right">18</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">59.6%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>G.Frerotte</td> <td>WAS</td> <td align="right">770</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">712</td> <td align="right">8</td> <td align="right">13.9%</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">12.1%</td> <td align="right">503</td> <td align="right">3,400</td> <td align="right">3,520</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">11</td> <td align="right">57.6%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>S.Young</td> <td>SF</td> <td align="right">741</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">651</td> <td align="right">10</td> <td align="right">21.4%</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">17.5%</td> <td align="right">355</td> <td align="right">2,274</td> <td align="right">2,841</td> <td align="right">14</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">68.2%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>T.Aikman</td> <td>DAL</td> <td align="right">729</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">743</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td align="right">12.5%</td> <td align="right">8</td> <td align="right">12.9%</td> <td align="right">488</td> <td align="right">3,165</td> <td align="right">3,478</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">14</td> <td align="right">64.2%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>J.Elway</td> <td>DEN</td> <td align="right">694</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td align="right">823</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">10.6%</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">14.7%</td> <td align="right">498</td> <td align="right">3,170</td> <td align="right">3,513</td> <td align="right">26</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">14</td> <td align="right">61.7%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>M.Brunell</td> <td>JAC</td> <td align="right">637</td> <td align="right">8</td> <td align="right">773</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">5.0%</td> <td align="right">14</td> <td align="right">8.4%</td> <td align="right">618</td> <td align="right">4,236</td> <td align="right">4,072</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">8</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">63.7%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>D.Bledsoe</td> <td>NE</td> <td align="right">637</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">809</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">3.7%</td> <td align="right">17</td> <td align="right">7.7%</td> <td align="right">669</td> <td align="right">4,075</td> <td align="right">4,315</td> <td align="right">27</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td align="right">60.1%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>K.Collins</td> <td>CAR</td> <td align="right">618</td> <td align="right">10</td> <td align="right">664</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">14.2%</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">16.0%</td> <td align="right">391</td> <td align="right">2,511</td> <td align="right">2,803</td> <td align="right">14</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td align="right">56.2%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>T.Detmer</td> <td>PHI</td> <td align="right">504</td> <td align="right">11</td> <td align="right">501</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">7.5%</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">7.3%</td> <td align="right">433</td> <td align="right">2,753</td> <td align="right">2,867</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">59.8%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>D.Krieg</td> <td>CHI</td> <td align="right">479</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">329</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td align="right">7.2%</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">1.5%</td> <td align="right">399</td> <td align="right">2,222</td> <td align="right">2,755</td> <td align="right">14</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">60.2%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>B.Johnson</td> <td>MIN</td> <td align="right">431</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">525</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">8.7%</td> <td align="right">11</td> <td align="right">13.1%</td> <td align="right">332</td> <td align="right">2,186</td> <td align="right">2,332</td> <td align="right">17</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">62.9%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>S.Humphries</td> <td>SD</td> <td align="right">368</td> <td align="right">14</td> <td align="right">274</td> <td align="right">18</td> <td align="right">2.6%</td> <td align="right">18</td> <td align="right">-0.9%</td> <td align="right">439</td> <td align="right">2,556</td> <td align="right">2,655</td> <td align="right">18</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">56.3%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>J.Blake</td> <td>CIN</td> <td align="right">351</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td align="right">568</td> <td align="right">11</td> <td align="right">-2.0%</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="right">3.7%</td> <td align="right">607</td> <td align="right">3,426</td> <td align="right">3,568</td> <td align="right">24</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">56.6%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>P.Justin</td> <td>IND</td> <td align="right">347</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">303</td> <td align="right">17</td> <td align="right">31.9%</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">26.4%</td> <td align="right">135</td> <td align="right">820</td> <td align="right">1,123</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">58.3%</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">Player</td> <td align="center">Team</td> <td align="center">DYAR</td> <td align="center">Rk</td> <td align="center">YAR</td> <td align="center">Rk</td> <td align="center">DVOA</td> <td align="center">Rk</td> <td align="center">VOA</td> <td align="center">Passes</td> <td align="center">Yards</td> <td align="center">EYds</td> <td align="center">TD</td> <td align="center">FK</td> <td align="center">FL</td> <td align="center">INT</td> <td align="center">C%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>J.Hostetler</td> <td>OAK</td> <td align="right">344</td> <td align="right">17</td> <td align="right">408</td> <td align="right">14</td> <td align="right">0.9%</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">3.1%</td> <td align="right">441</td> <td align="right">2,484</td> <td align="right">2,776</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">60.5%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>B.Esiason</td> <td>ARI</td> <td align="right">341</td> <td align="right">18</td> <td align="right">204</td> <td align="right">20</td> <td align="right">3.8%</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">-2.2%</td> <td align="right">361</td> <td align="right">2,298</td> <td align="right">2,292</td> <td align="right">11</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">14</td> <td align="right">56.4%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>J.Friesz</td> <td>SEA</td> <td align="right">281</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">309</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">8.9%</td> <td align="right">10</td> <td align="right">10.8%</td> <td align="right">229</td> <td align="right">1,574</td> <td align="right">1,514</td> <td align="right">8</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">56.9%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>S.Bono</td> <td>KC</td> <td align="right">269</td> <td align="right">20</td> <td align="right">145</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="right">-1.9%</td> <td align="right">22</td> <td align="right">-6.1%</td> <td align="right">463</td> <td align="right">2,608</td> <td align="right">2,703</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">54.1%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>S.Mitchell</td> <td>DET</td> <td align="right">235</td> <td align="right">21</td> <td align="right">155</td> <td align="right">22</td> <td align="right">-3.3%</td> <td align="right">24</td> <td align="right">-5.9%</td> <td align="right">482</td> <td align="right">2,859</td> <td align="right">2,731</td> <td align="right">17</td> <td align="right">8</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">17</td> <td align="right">58.2%</td></tr></tbody></table>

Steve Bono, 20/47 QBs.

ClevelandBronco 01-09-2010 01:31 PM
I wonder who Cassel blew to get that high on the list.

milkman 01-09-2010 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl (Post 6426519)
It's not just about pocket presence it's the way they see the field and process information. Favre and Romo often literally throw no look passes on the football field. They see everything at once, without zeroing in on anything. They're both extreme examples and perceptive ability of that degree is not rquired of NFL QBs, but you cant' be a total robot either. QBs like Cassell see and do only 1 thing at a time and whatever they're seeing, thinking, or doing is zeroed in on with tunnel vision. Rivers is the closest of the successful QBs to be that way but can also do things with his accuracy that Cassell can't.
And for Favre, and especially Romo, that "No look" pass lead to a lot of interceptions.

Romo cut down tremendously on that "No look" pass after the third game this season, and his interceptions went down, and overall performance, especially in December, improved.

Earthling 01-09-2010 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 6424725)
Im willing to bet that he makes a pronounced jump up in these rankings by this time next year after some of these gaping weaknesses are fixed and he progresses as qbs with his work ethic do.

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I am willing to put any of these three on the line against any of the "horsemen" to say that Cassel cuts that number in half and ends up at least 22nd in these rankings next year or better. This puts me at a huge disadvantage because it is dependent on Pioli filling the holes that are there to give the kid a chance at achieving this, but I am basing my thoughts on the fact that I fully believe that Pioli looked at this as a evaluation year and that he will fill a couple needed holes to help his investment succeed. So call me a homer for this all you want or claim I am calling for a miracle, but I honestly think it is ralistic to expect that type of improvement or better. The kid is not a total loss.

Who is game?

/hopes this doesn't backfire, but one has to have hope
Rep !

Damn...With all the beetchin' and moaning about Cassel's worthlessness and no one taking this bet...???

OnTheWarpath15 01-09-2010 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthling (Post 6426633)
Rep !

Damn...With all the beetchin' and moaning about Cassel's worthlessness and no one taking this bet...???
I think even the people pointing out Cassel's weaknesses expect his "numbers" to increase dramatically.

Charlie Weis is a smart enough OC not to ask him to do things he can't do.

So expect even more dumpoffs, WR screens and other assorted passes under 10 yards - which will inflate his stats, at least on the surface.

DeezNutz 01-09-2010 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6426674)
I think even the people pointing out Cassel's weaknesses expect his "numbers" to increase dramatically.

Charlie Weis is a smart enough OC not to ask him to do things he can't do.

So expect even more dumpoffs, WR screens and other assorted passes under 10 yards - which will inflate his stats, at least on the surface.
And saying that he'll rank 22nd next year isn't exactly a bold prediction.

Chris ****ing Redman is #22 this year.

Cassel will be one of the worst starting QBs in the league! Who wants to bet?!!!??

TheGuardian 01-09-2010 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6426674)
I think even the people pointing out Cassel's weaknesses expect his "numbers" to increase dramatically.

Charlie Weis is a smart enough OC not to ask him to do things he can't do.

So expect even more dumpoffs, WR screens and other assorted passes under 10 yards - which will inflate his stats, at least on the surface.
I'd call that being smart and playing to a guys strengths. Cassel CANNOT throw the deep pass to save his life so if they can find ANYTHING he can do well, just do that A LOT.

OnTheWarpath15 01-09-2010 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 6426684)
And saying that he'll rank 22nd next year isn't exactly a bold prediction.

Chris ****ing Redman is #22 this year.

Cassel will be one of the worst starting QBs in the league! Who wants to bet?!!!??
Holy shit, I missed that.

ROFL

OnTheWarpath15 01-09-2010 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGuardian (Post 6426691)
I'd call that being smart and playing to a guys strengths. Cassel CANNOT throw the deep pass to save his life so if they can find ANYTHING he can do well, just do that A LOT.
Well, it is smart on the surface. You never want to ask players to do things they can't do. Especially at the most important position on the field.

The problem is, you've just given the defense even less field to defend, all because your QB has severe limitations.

It's the type of offense that in today's NFL, will probably get you within a game of .500 on either side, and if you do sneak into the playoffs, a one-and-done.

B_Ambuehl 01-09-2010 01:48 PM
Quote:
And for Favre, and especially Romo, that "No look" pass lead to a lot of interceptions.

Romo cut down tremendously on that "No look" pass after the third game this season, and his interceptions went down, and overall performance, especially in December, improved
Which is why I already said, "It gets them into trouble sometimes." Guys like Cassell though couldn't do that type of stuff if they wanted to.

milkman 01-09-2010 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl (Post 6426717)
Which is why I already said, "It gets them into trouble sometimes." Guys like Cassell though couldn't do that type of stuff if they wanted to.
Those kind of things have cost their teams.

I'll take the guy that processes and makes the throws he sees.

Earthling 01-09-2010 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6426674)
I think even the people pointing out Cassel's weaknesses expect his "numbers" to increase dramatically.

Charlie Weis is a smart enough OC not to ask him to do things he can't do.

So expect even more dumpoffs, WR screens and other assorted passes under 10 yards - which will inflate his stats, at least on the surface.
As long as we can keep moving the chains I'm fine with this. Wasn't that kind of how Dan Fouts opperated mostly? I'm curious how many 3 and outs we had this year on offense..??

Extra Point 01-09-2010 01:58 PM
When you've seen the gulch, the view only gets better.

milkman 01-09-2010 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthling (Post 6426743)
As long as we can keep moving the chains I'm fine with this. Wasn't that kind of how Dan Fouts opperated mostly? I'm curious how many 3 and outs we had this year on offense..??
Are you kidding?

Dan Fouts threw some of the prettiest deep balls you'll ever see.

OnTheWarpath15 01-09-2010 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthling (Post 6426743)
As long as we can keep moving the chains I'm fine with this.
Great.

Be prepared to never win a playoff game, much less a championship.

'Hamas' Jenkins 01-09-2010 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6426790)
Great.

Be prepared to never win a playoff game, much less a championship.
It's no different than 2006.

These people just want a 9-7 team and a first round playoff loss so they can play the "what if" game.

Earthling 01-09-2010 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 6426789)
Are you kidding?

Dan Fouts threw some of the prettiest deep balls you'll ever see.
He also threw a LOT of short dumps to Muncie and company that were essentially like runs. iirc Of course that was some time back and my memory might have slipped a cog or two. :D

Earthling 01-09-2010 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6426790)
Great.

Be prepared to never win a playoff game, much less a championship.
Well, for this immediate future a playoff game will seem like a championship, heh ?


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