Lol. Billay didn't understand...
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GET RID OF THE YOUNG GUYS WITH POTENTIAL. THEY AREN'T SUPASTARS YET, SO THEY SUCK!!!! Impatient simpletons.

Haha

Remember how badly you missed on Brandon Carr?

You are setting yourself up with Belcher for a similar result.

If you go to camp and get a chance, ask Romeo about Belcher.

The kid "gets it" and will continue to get better.

The only ways he isn't a 16 game starter are injuries or Micah Johnson being healthy and lights it up.

I watched plenty of Niners games as well. Franklin is known for being one of the best run stuffers in the league period.


The Niners are about 7 under the cap IIRC and have spent have spent picks on D-linemen the last few drafts. Lets be honest they aren't exactly a model franchise anyway.

Tamba is too slow to play the 3-4, 3rd end,etc...you guys ever learn???

LETS NO IMPROVE THE ROSTER WITH TALENT!!1! IF WE HAD 53 GUYS LIKE JAVON BELCHER WE'LL WIN THE SHIP.

And we needed Vrabel on the field cause he plays hard.

I advocate bringing in better talent and get attacked for it. I love this board.

No, you were attacked for calling a solid, improving, young player a "turd"

Vrabel compares to young, ascending players how???

Don't believe everything you read.

He isn't slow or undersized. He just had trouble reacting to what he saw.

He came from Maine and damn near everything he saw last year was a first for him.

Carr was a small school guy, too and I made these same arguments about him.

He is gonna be damn good once experience isn't to his detriment.

So he's not really 228 or runs a 4.9? Come on he was never the fastest looking player on the field he was just better than Corey Mays and DeMarrio Williams.


Carr has always physically been gifted. I never doubted that aspect of his game.

There is sooo much more to the game than size and 40 time. Experience and quicker reactions will make him faster on the field and he can hit like a truck.

So what you guys(other than Boss trading for Soali) have advocated from reading this thread is stand pat up the middle. The same part that was the weakest part of the defense last year.

I'll bet you nearly any amount of money that he is north of 242...and not because he is carrying excess weight. I don't know where some sites got that number, but it is wrong 100%.

The 4.9 thing is also bs. Iirc, he was sick during his pro say and ran a slower than usual time. I bet he runs a sub 4.7 and is around 245.


Like I said, don't believe everything you read.

If you go to camp, look at him standing next to the other backers and then tell me he is only 228.

Belcher is already a good player, he has a chance to be very good once we add a real NT and he gains more experience at this level.

No, the nose still could use another nice addition. I'd love to see them get a Breaston type as well as a nice upgrade at RT. Where we differ is just getting rid of young players and calling them shit after one year of solid play.

He's played for 2 years.

:facepalm: 1st year starting and substantial playing time.

Known by who? He's living off a reputation he made in one year.

Ask any 49er fan if they are sad to see Franklin go.

What picks have they spent on the DL?

If we signed Franklin to a reasonable deal, I wouldn't bitch.

He is an upgrade to Ron Edwards and can fill the role till Powe is ready.

I just don't think he will be had for a "reasonable deal"

Im with boss here. Belcher looks big in person, even standing by our other lbs
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And he plays like it.

Very physical player.

Right the guy at nose tackle had nothing to do with the Niners being the 6th best team against the run last year.

I have a friend who's a huge Niners fan and writes about them for Scout. He doesn't want Franklin to go because he says they are going to replace him with Sopoaga.

To be fair, when you've got these:


http://i49.tinypic.com/243gehv.jpg

everything is undersized.

Pretty creepy you kept a pic of another man around on your hard drive.

LMAO

The 49ers run defense has been steadily improving since Franklin got there...but it's hard to gauge how much was him because Patrick Willis is a ****ing animal and arrived the same year.

Most people would probably give the lions share of the credit to Willis because of the accolades he has received, but you have to acknowledge the play of Franklin as well, for whatever the reason he was able to play motivated for a couple years.

Trouble with signing him is that teams seemingly have no problem letting him walk out the door.

That shouldn't go unnoticed.

As a short term bandage for a reasonable number with a bunch of incentives, absolutely.

More than 3 years with a total of 18-20? No.

either way we need to improve at NT and LB

Franklin/Willis vs Edwards/Belcher

How ironic.

Belcher had 11 tackles and 1.5 sacks against the Ravens but he needs to be replaced for sure.

Only thing wrong with our D in that game was pass rush.

Either that, or playing against the NFC West 6 times where there's virtually nothing at RB besides Steven Jackson can help.

Guy had one good year. He plays in front of a complete game changer. He was very good 2 years ago when he had money to cash in. Last year, his play fell off. Ask any 49er fan that. You want to tie up money into a guy who's basic motivation is money?

The only reason he wants him there is because they are going to put a 5-tech in his place. Again, these should all be flags that should tell you something.

We had 4 sacks and another handful of pressures...but we needed more.

If we could have found a way to get them off the field on third down by covering Todd Heap while keeping Rice in check and we would have had a chance.

Heap just killed us.

Like i said I wouldn't give him Wilfork money but to act like he's not a good player is ****ing bullshit.

Mike Brown had 12 against them the year before whats your point bro bro? The linebackers didn't play good that game.

We can replace Belcher in the draft this next year. Its loaded with 3-4 ILBs.

True. That kid from Notre Dame is going to be a beast.

Talk to Kyle, simple search yielded the result.

Watching Belcher year one to year two was like night and day.

The guy is just learning, and with another year, he easily could be turning into a beast.

I'm not opposed to upgrading the roster, everywhere, but to dismiss Belcher out of hand as a "turd" suggests strongly that you're a true dumbass.

The guy might be the hardest hitter we have also
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You suggested Drew Stanton was a good backup. I'd suggest you go easy on the name calling for a bit. Is great backup/special team player any better?

Or Hightower from Bama or the crazy kat out of Arizona State.

Or that kid from Boston College who had like 150 tackles AS A FRESHMEN. Also Tank Carder but he's more than likely a 2nd round guy.

Completely agree.

The fact that he's not a "standout" in spot play means squat.

The guy he's replacing was cut and considered a solid b/u at best...

How about this.

You are not seeing what you should be seeing when watching Belcher.

Is he a standout right now, as we speak?

No.

Did he improve by leaps and bounds from his first season to his second?

Yes, absolutely?

Should we, given that improvement, dismiss him out of hand?

Absolutely not, because there's no evidence to suggest he's even touched his ceiling.

As for Drew Stanton, your bitching would make some sense if I was proposing we sign him to be the next starting QB for this team.

Again billay makes no sense.

Stanton is a good BACKUP. Key word backup.

Hes also not a young guy from a small school that grew as the season went on last year.
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This.

Vrabel was cut from the Steelers due to their ****ing never-ending glut of talent at LB and landed with the Pats.

The Pats worked him out and saw he had range.

This is where I think Belcher fits in. He's the utility guy. He's not an expert pass rusher but he's a "fighter" and a "payer."

I'd love to see him more in an ILB role, but that's just me.

5 TD 9 INT with a 55% completion and not even being able to beat out Shaun Hill is a good backup?

You mean Belcher is a young guy?

My other question didn't get posted for some reason so i'll type it again. I'm not saying inside linebacker is priority A but we both agree theres better free agent inside linebackers that are still fairly young. Would you be opposed to us bringing in 1 in order to satisfy the new cap rules?

23 now the new old?...

Lol again I dont think billay understood.
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In case you hadn't noticed, Shaun Hill has played some pretty good football over the last couple of years, and ussaully experience gets the nod when establishing a depth chart.

But, imagine that, a young guy on a bad team with minimal experience struggles.

Whoda thunk that was possible?

That is (one of the reasons) why I hate the stat argument.

If you actually watch him play, you would know he has some talent, and with some coaching has solid backup written all over him.

I am not suggesting that we shouldn't sign anyone.

What I am suggesting is that our free agent money should be spent on positions of greater need where there's little to no talent, and because Belcher shows promise and upside, that is not an area of need compared to more pressing needs, like OT, WR and NT.

Those are positions I would target, as well as using the money we have to lock up some of our own.

If Belcher doesn't continue to progress this season then target that need next summer.

It's hard to understand Sautos rants because he types with his knuckles.

I think every one else understood. That tells me everything I need to know
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As you know, I'm a lot more resistant to most about signing free agents just for the sake of signing them. And I agree with you on Belcher--I still think he has very good upside.

But what are your thoughts on David Harris? He's still young and he's outstanding.

I watch him play every year in the pre-season. The Lions have been a pretty solid offensive team for a few years now. I'd much rather sign a veteran QB until Stanazi is ready to be the #2.

Does signing Harris impede our ability to sign Steve Breaston?

My entire take is about priorities.

I want to invest in Carr, Flowers, Hali, Gilberry and Richardson.

After that, I want to invest in depth and competition at the OT position, in the slot, and on the nose.

Will there be any money left after that to invest in Davis Harris?

I bet all those great scrubs that are about to be cut just really help to raise the level of Stanton's play.

Great post.
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US FIRST....

How many more excuses are you going to come up with?

I agree to some extent. But I also believe that if you have a chance to land a player who could be a pro bowler at a key position, free agency doesn't give you that many opportunities to do that anymore. We all know that ILB is a lot more important than the Slot and I would argue than Right Tackle too. I'd like to fill every position with Pro Bowlers. But all we need is solid but unspectacular play at RT and a decent 500-yard producer out of the slot, especially given that this is a run-focused team and our slot is essentially our 4th receiving option.

Let's put it this way... if we had a #10 pick in the draft, and you had the choice between an all-pro LB (over Belcher), a terrific slot receiver (over McCluster) or a terrific RT like Clabo (over Richardson), which would you choose? Most of us know that the last 2 would be reaches.

I've watched him in the regular season.

So your "I watch him every preseason" means jack.

I saw Kurt Warner look like crap in the 2000 preseason.

These are all broad generalities.

"He's a good QB everyone knows that"

"All those scurbs he's played with will be cut"

"Kurt Warner played like crap in the preseason in 2000"

No No. I watched Stanton play at Michigan State and his weakness was being consistent in a basic offense and he's still struggled with that in the pro's. This team doesn't need another project they have Stanazi. They need someone who can fill in and win a game or two.

The draft and free agency are two different animals.

That being said, if I think that I have a guy with the potential to be very good to outstanding on my roster at ILB (as I do with Belcher), then I am likely not going to spend that #10 pick on that position.

And frankly, I think RT is undervalued.

I wouldn't spend a top 5 pick on one, but depending on the talent, I might well spend a #10 pick on one, if I think he has Clabo potential.

We didn't draft Stanton but I wish him well.

Now, you see, if you had mentioned the Michigan St, thing first, your opinion would have carried more weight.

But I never said anything like
"He's a good QB everyone knows that"

But I have watched him in the regular season, and liked the talent he's displayed.

But if you had mentioned Michiga St. I might have been given pause to think, Hmmm....maybe I'm missing something.

Preseason does mean jack.

Bear in mind, however, I am not looking to replace Stanzi.

I am looking to replace Tyler Palko.

Tell me that Tyler Palko is a better backup option than Stanton.

I dare ya.

ESPN showed a list of the 5 teams in most trouble with the 120 mil cap yesterday. One of those was the Packers because they had a shit ton on IR. I don't think the Chiefs had any high dollar players on IR. They still need to be figured in, if not cut

Clabo maybe. I still believe any team can be very good with a good not great RT. But I understand the reasoning, since the Chiefs are going to have to be a very good running team. Breaston, I don't buy into. And at NT, you typically don't have to break the bank for that position. I like Belcher too, but he still has just as much potential to be adequate as he does to be outstanding. David Harris is already outstanding, and he was outstanding even when the Jets had major problems at Nose Tackle. And he is phenomenal against the run, which would be huge for the Chiefs.

There are plenty of options at RT and the Slot if the Chiefs want to wait for the second wave. They could still probably land a guy like Jamaal Brown, Marshall Yanda, or Ryan Harris, probably without breaking the bank. At Slot, Lance Moore and James Jones shouldn't break the bank. Hell, I don't think not bringing one in changes the offense much at all. At the Nose, you could go with a guy like Aubrayo and only have weight on your cap for 2 years.

Just another point here.

We disagree on the value of the slot receiver, especially in this offense, with Cassel at the helm.

The more weapons that Cassel has, the better, and a reliable slot in 3rd down situations for cassel would be huge.

And it all still comes down to priorities.

We could wait for the second wave, but in either scenario, daivid Harris is not a priority at this time.

I'm definitely going to push back on the slot receiver part. I think this team is best built to win by a power running game and a dominating defense, and a passing game good enough to not lose games. Until Cassel proves otherwise, that's my feeling. If that's the case, I don't agree with loading the field with options our QB has no idea what to do with. Breaston would still be #4 behind Bowe, Baldwin, Moeaki, and often times even Charles. I don't see Cassel throwing for more than 3,500 yards in any given season. You'd expect Bowe, Baldwin, and Moeaki to account for about 2,500 of those. The RBs to account for probably 500. How much is there really leftover for a slot?

I'd be fine with a guy like Breaston if we had a Brees type QB who can put up over 4,000 yards. But given that Cassel + our love of running the ball is probably going to limit Cassel to about 200 yards a game, I think overspending on a slot is a waste.

Zilla, as most of us understand, teams in the NFL win and lose games with matchups.

It's arguably the most important part of the sport.

After adding Baldwin, teams are gonna have to do everything in their power to slow down our starting receivers with their best corners....a receiver like Breaston (that is fantastic at running routes and maintaining speed in and out of his breaks) would thrive against opposing teams nickle corners.

He also has very very good deep speed, something this offense desperately needs if we are to take the next step. We MUST stretch the field, if we are to win games in the playoffs.

He also has a bunch of other reasons he would be a great signing.

He knows Haleys offense and excels in it.
He responds well to the type of coaching we utilize (hard coaching)
He has experience not only as a slot guy in this offense, but also as a starter that can fill in if needed.

Also, Verran Tucker would move to #4 and after getting experience last year against starting caliber corners, he could flourish when we really spread teams out.

If we sign Breaston, Charles would annihilate competition on draws/screens.

He would be a great signing for us.

Found this VERY tasty nugget from ESPN. Apparently, the Chiefs cap number for 2011 right now, for only players under contract(not including RFA, FA's, and Rookies) is only 74.4 MILLION!!! That means the need to spend close to 45.6 MILLION DOLLARS in order to be compliant with the 2011 salary cap floor.

Numbers per this link.

note - Not sure if this includes bonuses and escalators...

I feel like theres alot of pressure for Baldwin to produce this year. I could see it taking a year or 2 before the guy is a beast.

Well shit if you put it like that then yes I agree with you. I was under the assumption you wanted a #2 guy who could also come in and compete with Cassel.

Baldwin comes in with the tools and talent to be a trusted target for Cassel and has the size and ability to be a 800 yard, 6-8 td type player right out of the gates. Maybe more.

Having two huge receivers will give Baldwin the advantage in this offense because he will be facing opposing #2 corners and a shit ton of strictly man coverage...either that or teams are gonna get eaten alive with our other weapons.

I think he ends up our best receiver, maybe as soon as years end.

No way does it take 2 years for him to get acclimated.

Another note, my friend (that originally told me about the whole Haley fingerpointing/mcD cheating connection) that Baldwin has spent a lot of time with Cassel during the lockout...even staying at his house at times. I think those two will have chemistry right off the bat.

No, a lot of other teams (and fans on this board) want a serviceable veteran backup for insurance. The Patriots though, always seemed to have developmental guys, who, if you coach them up right(where Zorn comes in) might flourish(like Cassel, questionably) and either become your QBOTF, or a trade for picks with a good return on investment(ala Cassel).

I personally agree with Milk on this one too. I don't want a veteran who has reached his ceiling taking up a valuable roster spot. If we get into trouble and our backups don't perform, we can always call up one of the guys sitting at home...

CASSEL WENT DOWN, GET KURT WARNER ON THE LINE!!!!elevnty11111!!!!!!

"Chiefs forced to spend 60 million on pile of shit"

Oh, never mind.

Like I said, you can use that argument for anyone. The fact is, you're not going to put world beaters on your team at every single position. And as milkman has pointed out, and it's true, we're going to have a TON of people we have to re-sign in the next few years. If that's the case, you have to prioritize who you want to spend your money on. A slot receiver is a role playing position. David Harris, on the other hand, is a shutdown run-stopper. Even if we struggle at Nose Tackle, he's going to plug up the interior run. And he's a good blitzing LB. How many times last season did our interior run defense completely disappear?

Here's the way I see it. As a running offense, we are already awesome. As an overall defense, we have potential to be great. If we get good play from a NT and LOLB, we can be every bit as good as the Steelers on D. Our pass offense? No matter how much we stack the deck, we still have a QB who could limit the Chiefs from being great.

If we bring in Breaston, we are essentially asking Cassel to be the guy who wins games for us. If we bring in Harris, we're on our way to becoming a scary overall defense. Add that to a terrific running game and now all of a sudden, you only ask Cassel to manage games to victory.

If the Chiefs had Drew Brees, no question you go after Breaston. But with Cassel, I'd rather choose to be great and whenever possible, not ask him to put up over 20 points a game.