I was watching this game at BWW and I walked to the manger and had him change the channel I couldn't it any more.

What'd be nice is if we could get a D-Coord. who is innovative enough to run a hybrid D that could line up in 3-4 and 4-3 and 3-3-5 and any other package depending upon what the game plan and personnel dictates.

Someone made a comment about haley not being able to keep his nose out of the offense...he's the head coach with an offensive coordinator background...why would he keep his nose out? Makes no sense...he should be calling the damn plays if you ask me.

Yep. They totally blew it with the offseason decisions regarding the D-line. But hey, I'll shut up because the "coaches always know more."

Other than the offense, defense, field goal and punt team I thought things went well. Looks like the punt return team is well rested for next week too. Bonus!

I am still here Drippy Dick... Just havent had time to respond yet...

I agree.

I don't think that's where Todd Haley has failed. He's failed at being able to get along with any other offensive mind. And he ran from the responsibility of play calling when he named Bill Muhr the play caller at the start of the season... I can only assume he's since pulled those duties or will do so soon if he hasn't already.

There's just more change.

1) Lots of guys from nearly any place a coach has been before will follow him elsewhere because coaches are generally more apt to go after players they know. I can't think of a better endorsement than Monty Beisel, Leonard Pope, and Lance Long following a coach to a new city. Of course they'd follow him there, they need every advantage they can to make a roster.

2) There was nothing innovative about the offense that he ran in Arizona, other than how terrible the running game was. You're trying to pawn him off like he's Mike Martz or Don Coryell, and that's completely disingenuous.

3) No one knew the name Todd Haley until January 2009, and then they knew it for those sideline blowups. Sure, he met a lot of things on a check-off list: coordinator, disciplinarian, etc., but being a good coach is not a compilation of check off boxes. To be a good coach you have to be willing to delegate and trust your assistants, and make sane decisions, and I think it's pretty clear that he can't do that. That's not just a function of who calls plays, either.

4) I forgot another reason why people would have known Haley's name: his wife found a rat in a salad.

5) I'll reiterate: everyone likes a tough guy when they win, but a hard-driving maniac can really wear players out whenever things aren't going well.

Then man the **** up and call the ****ing plays. Quit hiring a new offensive coordinator every offseason and then getting rid of him because you don't get along.

If you're going to hire an offensive coordinator....let him do his ****ing job.

That's what I meant.

Your referral to the Reno Air Show is as tasteless as the stupidity of your analysis. . .

I agree with the dramatic changes NFL defenses need to undergo as a result of the "new" way of playing.

Yeah, because evening out a good year injury-wise is to have season-ending injuries to two if not three of the top five (top three?) players on the team. Oh, and to have them VERY early in the season.


The top of the draft that year has been pretty damn mediocre overall. You can argue for Sanchez, of course, but I'm not sure how many pro bowls the entire top of that draft has been to. It wasn't only the Chiefs struggling to make a good choice high in that draft.

Raji's been the only real stud out of teh top 10. So far, Sanchez isn't in that category yet due to pedestrian numbers in the regular season, and Stafford can't stay on the field enough. We'll see where those two go, of course...

Just sayin'.


1 Lions Matthew Stafford QB
2 Rams Jason Smith OT
3 Chiefs Tyson Jackson DE
4 Seahawks Aaron Curry OLB
5 Jets Mark Sanchez QB
6 Bengals Andre Smith OT
7 Raiders Darrius Heyward-Bey WR
8 Jaguars Eugene Monroe OT
9 Packers B.J. Raji DT
10 49ers Michael Crabtree WR
11 Bills Aaron Maybin DE
12 Broncos Knowshon Moreno RB
13 Redskins Brian Orakpo DE
14 Saints Malcolm Jenkins CB
15 Texans Brian Cushing OLB
16 Chargers Larry English DE
17 Buccaneers Josh Freeman QB
18 Broncos Robert Ayers LB
19 Eagles Jeremy Maclin WR
20 Lions Brandon Pettigrew TE
21 Browns Alex Mack C
22 Vikings Percy Harvin WR
23 Ravens Michael Oher OT
24 Falcons Peria Jerry DT
25 Dolphins Vontae Davis CB
26 Packers Clay Matthews OLB
27 Colts Donald Brown RB
28 Bills Eric Wood C
29 Giants Hakeem Nicks WR
30 Titans Kenny Britt WR
31 Cardinals Chris Wells RB
32 Steelers Evander Hood DT

Yeah....and at the time we had no NT. Raji should have been the pick.

How's it stupid?

True. Hindsight is a bitch. But looking at that first round, it really was a pretty average one. A few good to really good players, and a whole lot of guys that are just players.

This would be a little more accurate had we taken a guy like Sims, who was widely believed to be worth the pick, and he busted, rather than a 1-2 punch of Tyson Jackson at #3 and Matt Cassel as our QBOTF.

1) Moeaki was not one of the five best players on the team, and definitely not top 3. In fact, he'd had a horrible preseason. Charles and Berry, yeah, that's a killer, but teams get decimated by injuries sometimes (Green Bay)

2) Your claim about the top of the draft lacking weight would have more merit had we drafted someone who was considered a prospect worthy of the top of the draft at that time. Sadly, we picked a guy who was around the 15-20th best prospect and paid him #3 money at a position of moderate impact.

If you are moving to a 3-4 and you want defense to be that first pick, it's not like Orakpo and Raji weren't considered better prospects than Jackson, they undoubtedly were. They also play more important positions to the defense. Clay Matthews was in the same realm as Tyson Jackson; mid-late first rounder.

You haven't offered anything that hasn't be supposition innumerable times. It is a sorry reason to attribute the teams failure for so long other than pointing the finger to the very top.

Having been involved in the Reno Air Show many years ago, it just wasn't very good metaphorically.

Can't argue this. At the time, Cassel looked promising, especially considering what we had at QB. I had no opinion of Jackson as I knew nothing about him (which maybe was all I needed to know).

Romeo's defense being antiquated isn't supposition. It's a claim supported by direct evidence on the field.

The telephone game obviously hampered the team on 4th and 1 yesterday, when they were unable to get a play in, and then were penalized for too many men on the field. That's not supposition, either. I didn't conjure that event out of the ether.

Injuries happen and tend to normalize themselves over time, provided you don't have a completely inept training staff.

It's my supposition that this is the real heart of your discontent.

Again I never said he was an offensive mastermind. But you continue to act like anyone can coordinate a super bowl offense. You act like he got hired because he yells, reverend that he was the oc of a very offensive minded team that had a huge playoff run. And again... Youre not addressing why keyshawn, fitz and warner gush about him as a coach. You don't hear warner talk about mart or keyshawn talk about he tuna with nearly the same level of fondness.

He was young, had a huge season in 2008, and his players seemed to really respond well to him. As for his ability to delegate... The only issue we've seen is that he didn't work well with weis. And maybe that's on pioli for forcing weis on him.

I think its ridiculous to say he was only coveted because of yhe trew and because he yells. That's a gross discredit to his solid accomplishments as a receivers coach and a coordinator for a super bowl offense. It was a good hire. The fact that he and pioli aren't getting along definitely leads me to believe he's been handcuffed. Clearly you can't look at this roster and say Haley has been handed championship personnel.

I'm not claiming that the failure of the team is Haley's responsibility alone, or even a plurality of it. I'm arguing a couple of things:

1) He was known (not coveted, known) for his sideline antics
2) He was relatively inexperienced and his resume was thin
3) A few former players gushing about someone doesn't really mean all that much. If anyone should know this, it's a Chiefs fan. Don't you remember the Herm and DV years?
4) If a guy can't coexist with other offensive play callers and can't co-manage the duties of both HC and OC if he needs all the responsibility, how can you claim that it was a good hire?

Again, this is all a distraction from the broader point. This shouldn't be about Haley, he's just a symptom of the larger disease, which is ownership and management.

Crennel is garbage...too damn conservative and makes no adjustments...but who cares? Bowe is going to break his neck next week and Hali is going to get paralyzed while cassel remains 100% healthy...

as opposed to a rainbow unicorn?

I don't give a damn if players can't handle being called out when underperforming...players aren't bigger than the game, and grown men don't need to be coddled like children.

....that said, I think Haley went soft, and it shows on the field.

I think both the team AND Haley have given up. Haley knows he can't win with Cassel as his QB. Look at the ****ing gameplan yesterday. As soon as Charles went down....Haley threw in the towel. And honestly....I don't blame him.

I personally think that the Chiefs did come and play hard at the beginning of the game. They got after Stafford right away and forced a pick (which talentless McGraw fumbled right back). They moved the ball really well on offense in the first half.

The fumble of the pick, the loss of Charles, the missed FG and the turnovers are what took the wind out of the sails. I don't feel that Haley has lost the team; it's just that there is an albatross at QB and no depth (particularly at safety and RB). Most of that is on Pioli.

The fact that we're getting ready for week 3 and having a discussion, with merit, about if the team has quit on the coach is just a straight up embarassment.

Seeing that list makes me puke!:#

My question to you is, Why are you not an NFL scout? If you can prove your track record, why dont you leave here and do something that you feel you have a knack at. You seem to have the passion for it.

I dont need to hear how great you are and how "spot on, as usual" you are... I would like to see some real life results, not message board I told you so's...

You are right, it doesnt take terribly long to do what I do... Most people who want to become airline pilots spend around 3-4 years getting a degree and building enough hours and experience to get to a small regional airline. Then some people can pay a serious amount of cash and fast track it. But normally people go to school get all the ratings, instruct new students, build time and real life flying experience. Then move on to the intense type rating for an airline. After landing at a Regional, they spend another 3-7 years of flying some crappy schedule and training before they can be picked up by the big boys.... Then the intense type rating training starts all over.. So to get to the Pinnacle of your flying career, it normally takes around 10 years or so...

For me, I am chose to stick with the corporate life. I fly less, make a fraction of with Pioli makes. But for me, life is pretty dang good.. No complaints here.

Hell in my opinion, I am a better GM that Pioli, I would of drafted Sanchez not Jackson nor would of I traded for Cassel...

Yeah, same old "if you know so much why aren't you working in the NFL" bullshit. It's a message board for opinions, dumbass.

:deevee:

Wow, Well done Brock... Read much?

"Amazingly enough, I don't get paid for my football decisions, and yet the results would largely be similar to someone making $5 mil a year."

Reerun has replaced Laz as the biggest cry baby on the board.

Apparently you have trouble understanding what words mean.

Amazingly enough we still have a number of good pieces for the 4-3 as well. We are 2 or 3 players away from having either one.

Rerun lets his healthy dislike of Hamas get in the way of an honest football discussion, again.

Yeah Apparently, But I want to think you for noticing and caring so much about me and my posts...

Thank you Brock... We will always be friends...

Actually Bowser, I was discussing the thread he posted about his baby girls with my wife (NICU nurse) last night...

Not only did she get pretty frustrated with me for being a tool to Hamas (regardless of how he treated people here) But that I should of told her about his situation with his girls. She could of offered alot of advice and comfort to him and his family through me, since she deals with that on a daily basis.

She told me some stories last night that would just rip your heart out. I really felt bad...

So Hamas, I want to apologize for the past, present and future of being a tool to you. I am sorry.

I thought he was based on the (over?) reactions around here when he went out, but I dont' pretend to knwo the Chiefs' roster that well. Fine, put him aside -- I'm not sure you have a better defensive player than Berry, or a better offensive one than Charles, so it's still really freaking devastating to lose those two.

But yes, injuries are part of the game, and no injury can excuse the two blowouts the Chiefs have suffered.

I agree to an extent. I acknowledge that many, including many on here, thought Jackson was taken far too highly even when he was taken. The issue is, when you look at the entire top 10+, is you can see how teams were clearly struggling to judge the value of these guys in a relatively weak draft class. Or, at least, a "weak at the top" draft class.

Well, Raji went 9 and Orakpo went 13th, so others in the top 10 weren't thinking they'd be superstars either, apparently, by and large. Looking back now, obviously you'd take a Raji, Orakpo or Matthews. But Matthews went 26th for chrissakes, and the Patriots traded OUT of that spot, sliding back to take the now-cut Darius Butler (kill me now), so it's fair to say not many thought he'd be the second-coming back when the draft was going on.

Kudos to the Packers. They KILLED that draft, which paved the path to their SB last year.

Why? It's obvious ALOT of teams failed to do a good job of judging the talent there. You can't just look at the two or three good picks that were made later in the round and think that your GM clearly sucks. Clearly, as to 2009, MOST GMs sucked, under that theory.

I just randomly picked the 2004 draft to comapre 2009 to:


1 1 San Diego Chargers Manning, EliEli Manning† QB Ole Miss SEC traded to New York Giants[5]
1 2 Oakland Raiders Gallery, RobertRobert Gallery OT Iowa Big Ten
1 3 Arizona Cardinals Fitzgerald, LarryLarry Fitzgerald† WR Pittsburgh Big East
1 4 New York Giants Rivers, PhilipPhilip Rivers† QB NC State ACC traded to San Diego[6]
1 5 Washington Redskins Taylor, SeanSean Taylor† S Miami (FL) Big East
1 6 Cleveland Browns Winslow II, KellenKellen Winslow II† TE Miami (FL) Big East from Detroit[7]
1 7 Detroit Lions Williams, RoyRoy Williams† WR Texas Big 12 from Cleveland[7]
1 8 Atlanta Falcons Hall, DeAngeloDeAngelo Hall† CB Virginia Tech Big East
1 9 Jacksonville Jaguars Williams, ReggieReggie Williams WR Washington Pac-10
1 10 Houston Texans Robinson, DuntaDunta Robinson CB South Carolina SEC
1 11 Pittsburgh Steelers Roethlisberger, BenBen Roethlisberger† QB Miami (OH) MAC
1 12 New York Jets Vilma, JonathanJonathan Vilma† LB Miami (FL) Big East
1 13 Buffalo Bills Evans, LeeLee Evans WR Wisconsin Big Ten
1 14 Chicago Bears Harris, TommieTommie Harris† DT Oklahoma Big 12
1 15 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Clayton, MichaelMichael Clayton WR LSU SEC
1 16 Philadelphia Eagles Andrews, ShawnShawn Andrews† OT Arkansas SEC from San Francisco[7]
1 17 Denver Broncos Williams, D. J.D. J. Williams LB Miami (FL) Big East from Cincinnati[7]
1 18 New Orleans Saints Smith, WillWill Smith† DE Ohio State Big Ten
1 19 Miami Dolphins Carey, VernonVernon Carey OT Miami (FL) Big East from Minnesota[7]
1 20 Minnesota Vikings Udeze, KenechiKenechi Udeze DE USC Pac-10 from Miami[7]
1 21 New England Patriots Wilfork, VinceVince Wilfork† DT Miami (FL) Big East from Baltimore[7]
1 22 Buffalo Bills Losman, J. P.J. P. Losman QB Tulane C-USA from Dallas[8]
1 23 Seattle Seahawks Tubbs, MarcusMarcus Tubbs DT Texas Big 12
1 24 St. Louis Rams Jackson, StevenSteven Jackson† RB Oregon State Pac-10 from Denver via Cincinnati[7]
1 25 Green Bay Packers Carroll, AhmadAhmad Carroll CB Arkansas SEC
1 26 Cincinnati Bengals Perry, ChrisChris Perry RB Michigan Big Ten from St. Louis[7]
1 27 Houston Texans Babin, JasonJason Babin† DE Western Michigan MAC from Tennessee[7]
1 28 Carolina Panthers Gamble, ChrisChris Gamble CB Ohio State Big Ten from Philadelphia via San Francisco[7]
1 29 Atlanta Falcons Jenkins, MichaelMichael Jenkins WR Ohio State Big Ten from Indianapolis[7]
1 30 Detroit Lions Jones, KevinKevin Jones RB Virginia Tech Big East from Kansas City[7]
1 31 San Francisco 49ers Woods, RashaunRashaun Woods WR Oklahoma State Big 12 from Carolina[7]
1 32 New England Patriots Watson, BenjaminBenjamin Watson TE Georgia SEC


This is the kind of draft you kill your GM for if he scrwes up at the top of the round. A ton of great talent was all over this round, so if you missed your pick, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

Wow.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/portend

por·tend
   [pawr-tend, pohr-] Show IPA
verb (used with object)
1.
to indicate in advance; to foreshadow or presage, as an omen does: The street incident may portend a general uprising.
2.
to signify; mean.

You obviously have the internet... look it up before you mock someone.

I dont think SP ever thought Matt was the answer at qb. He is a bridge. He is a decent quarterback but he will be just enough to hold the chiefs over till we get enough holes filled and then draft a qb. In New England Tom Brady didnt walk into a shitty situation. He came into a situation where he could lean on others. That is the patriot way.

Here's my beef with Haley:

1) As a rookie head-coach with ZERO super bowl rings (or any other hardware as a head-coach) - you cant walk into the job like you are Bill Parcells or Bill Belichek. As Hamas stated earlier, that will eventually bite you in the ass when hard times hit.

2) His treatment of (and attitude towards) his coordinators is becoming more and more apparent. He ran Gailey off after pre-season (a dick move). He ran Weiss off prior to a playoff game. How can a head coach with a 14-19 all-time coaching record feel that he knows more than anyone else in the room (at all times)?

3) And this is the most important......his coaching decisions just plain suck. Last year, he made decisions like he was playing a game of madden on PS3. Going for it in your own territory, on-side kicks to start games/halves. THe play-calling when he is making the decisions is horrendous.

I am so sick and tired of hearing the "we have no talent" excuse. We've been hearing it ever since the Greg Robinson era.

Other teams in the NFL (with good coaching staffs/schemes) take nobodies and turn them into productive NFL players. How many players not drafted in the first few rounds can you name that the chiefs have turned into legitimate players?

But again... his resume was no thinner than Gruden, Tomlin, or John Harbaugh. We all were excited to get someone young rather than someone old and stale. As for gushing... again, we're not talking about just player-speak. Warner texts Haley to this day. Keyshawn always pumps Haley up--he doesn't do that for any other coach. One of the bases for your argument is that he's irascible and that his act is tired to his players, and I'm pointing out that players seemed to really like him. Abnormally so. And if he's irascible and losing the team, it doesn't explain why guys like Flowers and Charles are signing long-term extensions.

As for co-existing... maybe yes, or maybe he shouldn't have been given Weis in the first place. Knowing what we know now, isn't it highly possible that Weis was forced on Haley? Because Weis seems to be the only assistant he's struggled to get along with.

Your last point is one I agree with. I feel like Haley has been forced into the Patriot Way. Pioli's done little to give Haley great players and he forced a 3-year QB experiment on Haley that isn't very good. I'd bet that forcing Weis/Romeo on Haley was also a Pioli decision. I still like Haley as a coach, but I've turned to ultra concerned about our GM. If the culture is toxic that absolutely starts from the top.

The treatment of the coordinators is one thing. But it also could be the case that he's wanted control of playcalling all along but was blocked by Pioli. I imagine Gailey was to appease Hunt and Weis was all Pioli. As for his weird risk-taking, he's taken a lot of dumb risks, but fans can be fickle--we always hated that Vermeil didn't take enough risks. People like risk when it works and hate it when it doesn't.

As for talent... it's undeniable he doesn't have talent. For one, the Chiefs' payroll is significantly lower than anyone else's. That means they're obviously not spending on talent. More importantly, if Nose Tackle and QB are the two most important players on the field, it's clear that Pioli has done a subpar job addressing those two positions.

I am still convinced that if you gave Haley a real QB, this team could be competitive.