Flacco has more regular season wins than any other qb since he's been the starter.

He also has more playoff wins than any other qb during that stretch.

maybe but i just dont think they could be worse and Hasselbeck has made it to the Super Bowl in the past.

The difference between Thigpen and Cassel:

1. Cassel got to play for one of the greatest coaches ever and with one of the greatest offenses ever. This inflated his numbers, which were still only above average.

2. He then "earned" a giant contract because Pioli sucks.

3. That giant contract earned him undeserved chances in Kansas City despite the fact he blows.

Thigpen was discarded easily by Pioli when he arrived here. Then he goes to Miami, who have no obligation to give him a shot. Same situation in Buffalo.

If some idiot had thought Thigpen was worth 60 million dollars, he could probably throw for 70 yards in a playoff game after throwing for 3,000 yards during the regular season.

He hasn't produced at a level that rivals Cassel. You can't take 11 starts and compare it to 3 or 4 plus seasons of starts, or take just one of Cassels worst seasons and compare and say see, they're the same. I remember Thigpen he had like 2 good games. If Thigpen were on the Chiefs with Cassel he'd be the backup, and he should be, even to Cassel. If you want to argue Thigpen vs. Quinn, then you've got something.

Hasselbeck might be 90's but he still kicks Cassels ass.

So has Rex Grossman, but I don't want him either.

not a Grossman fan either, i felt the same way about him coming outta college as i did with Cassel when Pioli traded for his ass.

Sure you can. How else should you compare the two?

Can you point to a difference between the two? They're both fairly inaccurate past 10 yards, both are fairly mobile, one's a little more mobile, one's a little taller. Both have passable arms but nothing great. Both have questionable mechanics/footwork. Both turn the ball over at the same rate.

It's a push.

The difference is the contract.

Do you even look up statistics?

Thigpen averaged 213 yards per start, threw 18 TDs and 12 INT.

Not only is that better than two of Matt Cassel's seasons in Kansas City, it blows away anything Brady Quinn has ever done.

I count 18 starting QBs, that I'd rather have over Cassel. That makes him middle of the pack, which is what those with some sanity have been saying all along, but some are so jaded that they aren't even thinking properly.

You glossed over 2010. That season is the only reason he's still here. Sure it ended poorly, and we played a lot of bad teams, but it doesn't matter, that's the kind of season that gets you more chances.

I didn't gloss over 2010.

Given the #1 running game and an above average defense, I'm fairly positive Tyler Thigpen could throw for 200 yards a game. He already did that in a worse situation.

Cassel has won 10 games in a season twice.

No, his teams have won 10 games in a season twice.

There is a big difference. An enormous difference.

Tyler Thigpen is good enough to ride on the coattails of the #1 running game and above average defense.

Derek Anderson did it too. Same ****ing shit.

Thigpen is so great, he went back to the coach that really knows him and he ended up THIRD STRING.

:thumb:

Tebow wins a playoff game, gets replaced.

Cassel loses a playoff game, gets starting job indefinitely.

guess my thinking is jaded because i cringe when Cassel has to throw the ball.

That's what happens when you're Matt Cassel without a $60 million contract.

Nobody believes in Thiggy. He never got to ride Randy Moss/Bill Belichick to 10 wins.

He got to ride Herm Edwards. So no money for you, Thiggy.

Some front office executives get it.

That's not what makes you jaded. Thinking any 'OL POS back-up QB can unseat him is your bias.

...and yet everything you just said, has ZERO to do with where he is on the depth chart for Buffalo. Gailey, knew him, brought himin for a draft pick, and thought so much of his play, he was relegated to third string.

QB's I would start over Cassel (some are a push): Brady, Mallett, Sanchez, Fitzpatrick, Moore, Roethlisberger, Flacco, Weeden, Dalton, Schaub, Luck, Locker, Hasselbeck, Rivers, Manning x2, Griffin, Rodgers, Stafford, Ryan, Newton, Freeman, Brees, Flynn and Bradford.

11 starts
2608 passing
378 rushing
37 receiving

That's more than 213 yards per start.

He also had 22 combined tds in those 11 games.

well, it's no secret that i think Castle sucks.

That's not Thigpen's fault. Fitzpatrick is better. Cassel would be backing up guys like Fitzpatrick if he didn't get paid by fat GMs, too.

And FYI Thiggy was 2nd string before the Bills got VY. Good for them. It's better than signing BRADY ****ING QUINN.

Hey you asked for a difference. I don't care if the team won 10 games, he's part of the team, he started those games he gets credit.

Yeah, Anderson is more like Cassel, I'll buy that. After that season he got a few more chances to prove he could do it again, and he couldn't, now he's a back up. That's a better comparison.

Guess what: Cassel has proven he can't do it since his bullshit season.

And he's going to keep on proving it.

Cassel is just Tyler Thigpen with 60 million dollars and a close personal relationship with his own personal savior GM.

For Manning. Tebow would still be the QB had Denver not signed Manning. The Chiefs were willing to do the same thing.

If Cassel repeats last season he won't be the QB in 2013.

Agreed. Everyone's getting ****ing fired, and we'll enjoy the new GM slashing Cassel's throat and watching the blood pour down the seats at Arrowhead. I'm hoping it gets bottled into BBQ sauce. That'll make a tasty brisket. Tastiest in years.

I don't know why you want to compare Cassel to Thigpen. Cassel is better than Thigpen.

Elway wanted Tebow GONE and he was good enough to pull it off without upsetting that stupid fanbase.

Based on absolutely no evidence.

Statistically, Thigpen is slightly better.

Watch them play, it's a push. Similar abilities and talent levels.

No evidence for Cassel being better other than "he got some wins because his teams carried him."

3 years, 9 million.

They could have easily kept Tebow as a backup/QBOTF. Tebow was replaced by Oswiler more than he was replaced by Manning.

But Thigpen has a much smaller sample size. You don't get to extrapolate, and say they're the same. If Thigpen ever gets another season lets see. I think Gailey changed the offense to suit Thigpen, it was gimmicky, and not sustainable. If you can't run a regular offense with your QB he shouldn't start. Ala Tebow.

I'll give Cassel credit for one win in 2010. The Rams game. I think HE won that game.

They let him go because they had to. It'd be a circus if he were still there, he was so popular that it would've been a major distraction to have him as the back up.

Had the Broncos not signed Manning do you think he'd still be gone? I don't, he'd be the starter.

Let me put it this way. If Cassel were on the Bills, I think Fitzpatrick is the starter with Cassel the back up and Thingpen 3rd string.

We know what his ability level is. We know he was in a bad situation. He still posted relatively decent numbers.

It's not a stretch to say he would continue to do that with better talent around him.

In any event, Cassel has never shown more ability than Thigpen. That's the important part.

And yet I get the feeling my last post is accurate as to how the NFL would see them. If both players were on the same team Cassel would be in front of Thigpen every time.

Thigpen had to have a gimmick offense installed to play.

Did you watch our offense last season?

Yes. It was not good.

Right now we are pretty close to the bottom. Cassel is a backup QB who happens to be our starter. If Stanzi is not good enough to unseat Cassel, then we may be the absolute bottom of the heap.

However, if Stanzi becomes the starter... and Cassel or Quinn becomes the backup, QB could move up into the 20 range... give or take a couple.

I think it's hard to rank the bottom 10 or so QB situations. There are several QBs that are all a lot alike and that are all inconsistent. Cassel is lumped there with those QBs, and those teams belong in the category of teams that should be looking to upgrade.

Teams I would not switch QBs with would be the Browns, Jaguars, Raiders, Jets, Cardinals, Vikings, and Dolphins. I'm pretty high on Stanzi though, so arguments could be made I suppose for the Jets (both QBs have playoff wins) and Dolphins (people like Tannehill, I don't).

As far as the teams I think have the best depth: NE, Seattle, Titans, Texans, and Lions. Hill is a great back up IMO.

Direckshun, I don't understand your thoughts on Tennessee. Yes, Hasselback played poorly the last half of the season. Locker looks like a stud though, and Hasselback is clearly better than Cassel.

:LOL:

That and the fact that Tebow was not at all what Elway wanted in a QB be it starter or back up.
Elway wanted the entire Tebow show the hell out of town. And I'm glad. Don't need any of that bullshit spilling over on the new era. Time to get back to focusing on football. I'm very happy with how Elway handled the whole QB thing.

Mind if I ask you who the starting QBs are that you would take Cassell over?

I'd gladly give Weeden, Gabbert, Palmer, Sanchez, Kolb, Ponder, or Tannehil a go over Cassel.

In a ****ing heartbeat.

Everyone seems to understand this, with the exception for one, Scott ****ing Pioli.

I'd take the Bills, Dolphins, Titans, Vikings, 9ers and Cards situations over the Chiefs.

Fitzpatrick is easily every bit as good or better than Cassel, and Young is a dynamic backup with playmaking ability, who just wins games.

Matt Moore is as good as cassel, and Tannehill has real potential with the right coaching.
And Garrard is easily as good as Cassel, as well.

Hasselbeck is a proven vet, and Locker has shown flashes.

Ponder is a guy I liked a lot coming out, and Rosenfels is a solid backup vet.

Smith is better than Cassel, and Kaepernick is a 2nd year guy with upside.

Kolb is better than Cassel, and Skelton showed some things when he took over for Kolb last season due to injury.

That leaves the Jets, the Jags and the Raiders.

I'd call the Jets and Raiders a push.

So, in the end, the only situation I think is worse is the Jags, and that's somewhat biased because I really didn't like Gabbert coming out, and didn't seem him show anything last season.

No, I don't mind at all.

I'd dodge the question too if I'd made as ridiculous a claim as you did.

All kidding aside...

Kevin Kolb
Blaine Gabbert
Matt Hasslebeck(he's been average at best the past four years)
Brandon Weeden
Matt Moore(career 32 TDs to 26 INTs)
Christian Ponder
Michael Vick
Josh Freeman
Mark Sanchez
Carson Palmer
Mark Tannehill
Alex Smith

Wipe your chin. Looks like you've got a little egg on your face, Holmes.

Thanks for the reply. You seem to place a higher value on Cassell than most who have ever seen the game. What do you see in Cassell that places him above Vick? Smith? What would make you keep Cassell rather than build with Tannehill?

?

For one, Smith has a very pedestrian career QB rating of 76.4. He did a nice job in the playoffs this past year, but before that he was awful.

Vick, isn't my idea of a franchise QB. I prefer a pocket passer. He's a decent QB, but throws alot of picks and has tailed off this past year.

Looks like the rest of the players you had no problem rating Cassel higher than?

I'm taking any team with a first round QB in his second year off that list. We know what Cassel is. Who knows about Weeden or Ponder or Tannehill?

I wanted Kaepernick last year, and frankly I am still optimistic he's going to be really, really good.

There isn't a single QB on that list I would rate lower than Cassell. I honestly see Matt Cassell as the worst QB in football and am baffled/thrilled that the KC leadership continues to put him on the field.

This^

Yay Jags! Woo hoo! :banghead: :nosmilie:

I would take Cassel over the likes of;

Gabbert
Hasselbeck
Palmer
Ponder
Bradford
Freeman
Smith
Kolb
Weeden

Dumb

I've bolded the 3 that I'd take ours over.

I still think Sanchez is a winner and a solid QB that will only improve. He has more tools than Cassel as well. I'd rather have Quinn/Stanzi than Tebow, but starting QB counts for 80% of my calculus here and while Cassel starts, the Jets have the edge.

I think Fitz is a solid QB that got rattled by his new contract last season in Buffalo. He's a better QB than Cassel and Young is a guy that I still wish we'd have given a shot.

Dolphins is a walk; even if Tannehill busts, Moore's a better QB than Cassel and Garrard is actually quite competent when healthy.

Weeden should be decent, if he isn't, McCoy is just a younger version of Cassel; they have more upside with the same amount of downside, IMO. Though ultimately this is a close call because I think Stanzi could be as good as Weeden in a couple of years. Again, however, your starter is 80% of the value.

Hasselback and Locker is a great combo of solid veteran play with high upside youth. Love their pairing and would trade ours for it 100 times over.

Palmer's a legitimate starting QB. He's not what he was, but he's a guy that is capable of keeping defenses honest.

Smith is who we pray Cassel can be...but isn't. And I like Kaepernick a lot, he just needs some serious coaching.

_____________________

Jags is a close call as well - Gabbert has upside and Henne's better than Cassel right now. But in the end, Gabbert was just so miserable last season that he has to get that mark.

The Cardinals are behind us if for no other reason than the contract they gave Kolb.

I just don't trust Ponder in Minn; looks like a game manager on his best days and his backups are awful with no upside.

So there - by my calculus, we have the #29th worst situation in the league, though ultimately it could swing anywhere from 26th to 31st.

Yep

You might not rate them lower, but the QB ratings sure do (for most of the players I mentioned)and I'll take that over somebody's opinion.

People have let their hatred for Cassel cloud their judgement. Your a Donkey fan, that's strike one for you in the judgement department.

I don't hate Cassell, I love him. Long live Cassell, may he wear the read and gold for many years to come.

He's keeping what might be a pretty good Chiefs team in the "nothing to worry about" department. What's not to like?

Matt Cassel is a better QB than John Elway was.

I know this, because he has a higher career QB rating than John Elway's.

My judgement is he ****ing sucks and I want him gone.

The QB Rating has merit, if you refuse to acknowlege that, no sweat on my sack. I could give two shits. I'm trying to keep it in perspective, while most of you bitch and moan like little women about a ****ing QB, playing a ****ing game.

You bring up an interesting point, but the basis of it is out of hatred for Cassel, not for actually trying to look at things as they are.

We have a DECENT QB. He's middle of the road, but he's hardly the shitstain so many have made him out to be. So rather, than actually discussing the topics realistically, this turns into me being a defender of Cassel-not because I actually like him, but because I prefer TRUTH.

So many around here have such broad strokes and generalizations it's a shame more football can't be discussed without all that petty crap.

Just my two cents.

I appreciate the honesty.

Cassel IS a shitstain and you are a moron.

No, it's stupid hyperbole. Cassel isn't the worst QB in the NFL. You want Caleb Hanie instead? If you mean starter, like I said there are 7 or so QBs that are lumped at the bottom, Cassel is one of them. I think his right spot is as a good back up.

If the Chiefs had cut Cassel this off season he would have signed either with one of the QB starved teams to challenge for a starting spot, or become a top back up. He wouldn't just sit there in FA with no takers. His value is around Kyle Ortons value.

Roughly just as bad or worse than our QB situation:

Buffalo
Cleveland
Jacksonville
Jets
Minnesota
Tampa Bay
Arizona

Tampa is not as bad or worse.

Caleb Haney isnt a starting QB. Out of ALL of the starting QBs in the NFL, Cassel is the worst.

I rest my case. You can't discuss football without some numbnut being a complete douche because of differing opinions.

Eat shit, Dave.