If he sits out long enough, it becomes yet another excuse for Pioli to bring back his son.

They dumped Randy Moss because they didn't want to pay him.

They're giving Wes Welker the business RIGHT NOW.

So what then is the incentive to actually play the season if you are franchised?


I would argue that by missing TC you would be more apt to get injured during the season, but thats just IMO.

And dumping Moss was a bad idea? The traded him for a 3rd round pick and he fell flat.


And honestly I don't know that I would pay Welker that big of a deal if I were in the exact situation with the TE situation they have there now and the fact that they just brought in other wrs. That said, Welker is a great slot guy, but you have to wonder how much of that is Brady and the system. Read somewhere that a guy thought Devon Bess would put up similar numbers in that situation.


Again that said, Bowe, IMO is in a different class of wr. You don't let a top 5 or 6 guy at his spot in his prime walk.

Money, and that's it.

Collect the paycheck and hope you don't get hurt.

Oh hell I don't know...maybe $9.3MM?

Randy Moss, who got 3 years and $27 million, would like you to know that, as usual, you don't know what the **** you're talking about.

This is after the guy gave absolutely 0 effort. I wouldn't have paid him either.

LMAO

That's not getting paid.

$9 million per was getting paid quite nicely in 2008.



Why is it bannable for someone to annoy people by bumping old threads, but your obvious trolling on thread after thread is accepted? It seems to me that the Mods got those two backwards.

Can you still sign a long term deal after camp?

Like I was saying in another thread, not a huge fan of the franchise tag.

I think after Monday, he can't sign until next offseason.

Shitty

Nope.

I believe this is the first year with a rule saying you can't negotiate once the deadline has passed.

With that said, I'm wondering how many FA's that don't get a deal done by Monday end up re-upping with their team in the offseason.

I'd guess not many.

I can't believe we're still talking about Orton. The dude didn't even want to come here and tried to get the Chiefs to take back their waiver claim on him. Obviously he's got a better arm and I'd like to see him stay but he had about -5% desire to stay here. He went and took a backup job instead of going to a place he'd have a legit chance to start. That pretty much tells you all you need to know about where his head is.

Because he knew he had 0 chance to start.

He knew there would not be a legit competition. And despite Pioli's lip service this offseason, there hasn't been one and clearly won't.

Why would he stay?

You are correct in that there probably wouldn't be a competition, but you're kind of creating an alternate universe just to knock Pioli. It really didn't matter. Orton did not want to come here in the first place, and tried to get the Chiefs to not claim him. And that was in a situation where he knew he'd be the starter. He wanted nothing to do with Kansas City.

He knew what was up.

http://sportsofboston.com/wp-content...1511_Piloi.jpg

Can't fault the guy for not wanting to be claimed by a team that's only going to give him a handful of starts, with no chance to start the following year, regardless of how he performs.

I'd want to go where I could show off for 6-7 games and parlay that into a deal.

Kansas City was never that place.

Orton had a stronger arm than Cassel but overall hes really no better.

They are both just different flavors of the same mediocre drink.

You're just being obtuse. He wanted to go to Chicago, even though he knew he'd never unseat the starter there either.

You don't think that if we made the playoffs and won a game he would have been given a starting deal here?

Nope. Not in a million years.

No, he wanted to go to Chicago... which was pretty much the same situation. And it probably turned out for the better in KC because he got to beat the Packers.

Then he turned around and without even testing the market went to Dallas as a backup. He wanted nothing to do with KC. And I'm not sure he even cared about being a starter.

I dunno that I believe that.


If the guy had came in and we had made the playoffs and won a game, I don't see how you can not sign him.

I don't recall ever seeing a quote from him about Chicago, but I could be wrong.

I recall him wanting to go to Miami.

Again, I could be wrong.

Four words:

Scott Pioli - Matt Cassel.

I realize that, and you might be right.


But how do you sell that to the fanbase?


I guess the same way they sold what went down?

Except one throws for 300 yards and beats the Packers.

The other throws for 93 yards and loses to Tim Tebow.

I watched John Clayton say this on SportsCenter. He wanted nothing to do with KC. In the end he just sucked it up and played out his time and got out. Then he didn't even wait to see where guys like Manning or Flynn signed and where spots could be open... he went straight to Dallas to hold a clipboard.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-claiming-him/

:facepalm:

Im talking abut entire body of work. not just a few cherry picked games.

Who cares if you throw for 300 yards or not? All i care about is wins.

I'm not debating his desire to be claimed by KC. I know he didn't want to come here.

I just don't recall him being quoted saying anything about Chicago. I thought he wanted to go to Miami, where he could have a chance to start this year.

He wanted to go to Miami before they cleaned house and brought in a whole new coaching staff.

Orton has averaged 249 yards per game over his last 37 games.

It's pretty obvious to anyone he's better than Cassel.

Told you, i dont care about stats. I care about wins, playoff wins and plays in the clutch that win big games.


Cassel and Orton are from the same turd bowl.

Except one throws for more yards and gives you a better chance to win.

I was pounding the Orton bandbox.



Got shot down pretty hard for it too.

I have said this before, but here it is again:

Orton had no running game or defense in Denver.

He would have been a very productive quarterback in Kansas City, because he has an ability to throw the ball down the field.

Cassel lacks that ability.

Orton > Cassel

Orton career record: 35-34

Cassel career record: 28-26


WooHoo!

Orton has played with inferior talent.

No one can legitimately sit there, watch these two players over the last three seasons, and come to the conclusion they are the same.

One can run a pass-first offense. One can't.

They're not remotely the same.

Orton has more pure throwing talent. WooHoo!

Much as I hate it, I agree with Clay here.



Orton would have made this team a for sure playoff team with a chance to make a little noise.

Yep :thumb:

The Denver game holds no water. Cassel didn't even play and neither did Charles or Moeaki. Winston, Hillis, Boss, and a Baldwin with camp are on the team now and that makes a big difference.

The Green Bay game holds no water either. How many TD's did Orton throw? Pretty sure he threw 300 yards on a pathetic pass defense that couldn't get any pressure on the QB. At all.

Bowe is gonna hurt, but it's not like he's the end all.

If we can get a 1st for him, do it. Trade that mother****er so we can get Tyler Bray!

And we won because he kept the offense moving and the defense off the field.

Something Matt Cassel can't do, even against shit teams like Denver.

Cassel would not have won that game.

I was impressed with Orton's performance as a week's old Chief beating the undefeated Champion GB Packers.

He's a pure passer type QB that has been careless with the ball in the NFL. He was able to march the lowly Bear offense up and down the field but threw too many INT's in the zone.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!


Who cares you play, but a loss is a loss.

Lies. Cassel is awesome against shitty defenses. He would have at least gotten a TD.

Isn't that the idea?

No, the idea is to make plays in the clutch and win games. Both of these guys are mediocre at best.

One while throwing to Randy Moss, Wes Welker and Dwayne Bowe.



The other while throwing to.......shit who has Orton had to throw to?

Yep, who cares that he's one of the worst QBs in the league when it comes to 3rd down conversion and red zone %? Everyone knows it's yards that win games.

And he's had exactly who to throw to in the red zone and on third down?

Brandon Marshall. Muhsim Muhammad, Bernard Berrian

and the key word is in Bold.

So Mark Sanchez > Philip Rivers is what you're saying?

QBs are in charge of an offense's production. They have to produce yards and points. Statistics are the frame through which we view how productive they are at giving you yards and points.

Orton has production but no playoff wins. Cassel has neither. So don't tell me you have no preference for one or the other. One IS better than the other.

Well Orton isn't a Chief anymore and that's that. But I think that's dumb you aren't going to pay Bowe what he wants. He'll definitely play his heart out just to get more interest for him for next season since he may traded. Or does he have a choice when it comes to trades?

And he doesn't do that better than Cassel either so what's your point?

And the one year he had to throw to Brandon Marshall. For the 2009 season (playing in 16 games with 15 starts), Orton threw 21 touchdown passes and 12 interceptions with an 86.8 QB ratin

Heh, not pure talent wise no.


But I have said for awhile Rivers is like a Modern Jeff George. His stats look pretty in the box score, but if u watch the games he makes a ton of mistakes. Think last years Chiefs game at Arrowhead.

Am I supposed to be impressed by that?

Brandon Lloyd. Marshall got traded the same year as Cutler.

I'm just of the opinion that Orton has never had any real weapons.


Give him this Chiefs healthy roster and I would have liked to see what woud have happened.

i was just saying Cassel isn't setting the league on fire winning either and
Orton is better overall.

No, Marshall played one year after Cutler left.

But thanks for adding Lloyd. Forgot about him.

Marshall, Lloyd, Muhammad, Berrian, Bowe.

He's had weapons. He's had his chance and the best he's ever done is 3800 yards and 21 touchdowns. He's not significantly better than Cassel.


How exactly? Cassel wins more. Cassel has a higher TD%. Cassel has a lower INT%. Cassel has a higher QB rating. Yeah, Orton has more yards, but who the **** cares? He's worse than Cassel at damn near everything else.

:doh!: I stand corrected

He had Bowe for what 1 and a half games? With no running game at any place he's been.

Berrian and Muhammed? Really?

Muhammad had 11000 yards and 860 catches when he retired. He had a 1400 yard 16 TD season the year before he went to chicago to play with Orton.

And Berrian was a good WR when in Chicago. Averaged 800 yards and 5 TDs in the 2 years in Chicago he was a starter. Steve Breaston type receiver.

You dolt.

Quarterback A - has the ability to throw the ball down the field. Can run a productive pass first-offense.

Quarterback B - lacks the ability to throw the ball down the field. Cannot, under any circumstance, run a productive pass-first offense.

Quarterback A is significantly better.

DOES HE?

In the last three seasons:

Cassel - 1 TD every 23 attempts.

Orton - 1 TD every 23 attempts.

Cassel - 1 INT every 38 attempts

Orton - 1 INT every 43 attempts

Looks like you're ****ing wrong, and Orton does this while taking more risks with the ball.

YOU LOSE.

Also, this:

Cassel - 1 sack every 13.5 attempts

Orton - 1 sack every 17.7 attempts

CASSEL LOSES. AGAIN.

Yards per attempt last 3 seasons:

Orton - 7.1

Cassel - 6.4

CASSEL LOSES. AGAIN.

Completion percentage, last 3 seasons:

Orton - 60.3%

Cassel - 57.1%

CASSEL LOSES. AGAIN.

Statistically, Clay is right - he is significantly better than Cassel. Probably worth an extra win or two.

But considering the goal is to win Championships, King is right.

Orton wouldn't have given this team a significantly better chance of winning a playoff game, much less a Super Bowl.

Neither are a guy you win a championship with.

I disagree.

With THIS TEAM, Orton could lead us to a wild-card playoff win. He'd still probably get beat against the league's top quarterbacks. If he was here for 10 years, we'd have a snowball's-chance-in-hell-Mark-Rypien-Jeff-Hostetler chance at a Super Bowl win.

With Cassel? Pain. Anguish. Dead puppies.

None of that is good enough.
Posted via Mobile Device

Orton would have made it easier to not trade up for a qb for a while
Posted via Mobile Device

Kyle Orton against the 2010 Ravens -

23 for 38, 314 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT.

Broncos lost because they ran for 39 yards and the defense surrendered 415 total yards. 31-17 final score.

Matt Cassel against the 2010 Ravens -

9 for 18, 70 yards, 0 TD, 3 INT

Chiefs ran for 107 yards. Defense gave up 390 yards. 30-7 final score.

Exactly.

Sadly, people are going to be content with winning a playoff game, should it ever happen.

****, people are content with winning the division once every 5 years as it is.