You want them to fire the Bible-Thumping Ginger already?

like i said, we just disagree

HC
QB
Speed WR
Free safety

4 quality upgrades and we are a legit playoff level team

HC - i dunno
QB - Geno Smith
Speed WR - Tavon Austin? Wallace?
Free safety - Draft/Free Agent

all 4 can be had in 1 offseason and next year the team will look/feel completely different.

now i also want a more aggressive schemes but i would hope that those come with the new HC.

Pioli doesn't hire outside of his immediate tree. And none of those guys run aggressive schemes.

So if you think Pioli deserves another chance, you really don't want change at the HC or coordinator positions...

THIS.
Clark's not going to fire people mid-season just to make the fanbase feel justified. It's important that ownership show itself to be consistent and not reactionary in order to be an attractive landing spot for the best candidates, so he'll wait till the end of the season.

Pioli has had chances at all that you have listed. That is why we are carrying pitchforks.

3rd time is a charm?

I was in the camp that thought the Pioli bashing was over the top. I mean, not all of his picks and FA pickups were bad. People tend to exaggerate that stuff. But when you consider that he has really screwed this franchise by forcing his HCs to stick with Cassel and not bring in real competition, it gets harder to support the notion that we'll be okay with Pioli. Then you have to consider his Gestapo actions toward SOC and other things and the Pioli image has degraded quite a bit. The guy has failed miserably. IMO, he's got some mental issues. Keeping him at GM would only sink this franchise even further into oblivion.

You really think we're a quality playoff team trotting Jalil Brown out at RCB and having no DEs who can creat pressure from our base front? You also think that we don't need an ILB who can cover, which would allow Eric to play deep more often than in the box as a LB? You think that we really just need 1 wr? Because Breaston is probably gone, Bowe is probably gone, your receiving corp is going to be Baldwin (possibe bust) DMC, Wylie,Newsome, and Hemmingway. That isn't a playoff WR group, that is Jaguarsesque.

you could be right

If that really is the case then it's up to Clark Hunt to either force the issue or fire Pioli.

We will probably never know for certain.

Probably true.

In year 4 of a new GM the team should be turned around and should be a contender (if they haven't already). KC is 1-10 and is getting worse. There is no injury excuse this year. Pioli has not improved the team. The only impact players are from Herm 5+ years ago.

Pioli is going to leave the team in shambles.

You're in full meltdown mode ... i understand.

I also think we can switch to a 4-3 pretty easily

Hali/Powe/Poe/Houston
Johnson/?????/Belcher

can Berry learn to cover? will a decent free safety allow Berry to focus on playing in-the-box? Covert Berry to a 4-3 MLB?

btw the Chiefs slid Tjax inside and played a Hali/poe/Tjax/Houston Dline against the Broncos with decent effect.


The sky isn't falling, this might be the most talented 1-10 team i've ever seen.

but hey ... continue to pull your hair out if it makes you feel better.

If we get Geno Smith out of the deal, it was worth it.

I just wish Clark would come out and acknowledge that there is a problem..and he is working on a solution...Just for him to say something would be nice.

This.

Again, what does that accomplish?

If he comes out and says there's a problem, are you satisfied? Of course not, because the end goal isn't for Clark to feel sorry for us, the end goal is to FIRE PIOLI.

People just need to be patient.

not going to happen

anything he does will be behind the scenes until the move is actually made.

The only way that doesn't happen is if we win games and lose the 1st pick.


I just don't see any way that Geno Smith isn't the 1st pick for us.

I can see scenarios where something happens with the Senior Bowl or combine/workouts and the Chiefs end up taking Barkley or Wilson instead but I don't really see any way that, if we get the 1st pick, we don't get a QB.

i suppose it's possible that huge workouts could jump somebody up.

but i agree, we take a QB ... it's just about once one.

Wilson does has a lot of potential

.

Dude. I sure as hell hope we don't ****ing switch to a 4-3. Do you remember how ORDINARY Hali was as a 4-3 end? How he used to just get crushed at the point of attack in the running game? What do you think would happen to Houston? You want those guys to put 20 pounds back on and see how quick they are then?
We FINALLY have a true NT. Just run a one gap, attacking 3-4, it's the best usage of the personnel on hand. The front seven would be fine in that sort of scheme, letting Dorsey walk. We need a safety and a corner.

And an ILB that can cover. Not a high priority, but it would allow us to be more flexible in subs.

i didn't say with should ... just that it is possible.

I think Hali is a much better player now than he was before.

Clark just paid Romeo 3 mil a year not even a year ago and possibly extended Pioli. What's the purpose of firing those guys right now? Might as well get every penny out of what you paid for before you have to dump them in the off season.

What makes you think Breaston is gone? And whether Bowe gets a deal or is franchised again he will be here. We have to spend up to 99% of the cap next season IIRC.

under Crennel i believe Houston was brought up to the DLine as a 5th guy ... a blitzer type situation.

Hali,dorsey,poe,tjax,Houston

against the broncos we had a 4-man front with Houston at DE.

and yes ... converting a good in-the-box safety to LB has happened before.

Urlacher,thomas etc

it's probably too late now for Berry ... should of happened from the very beginning. We will probably just have to make sure and find a good free safety to cover.

having 2 guys (belcher,Lewis) who are shit in coverage is difficult.

Breaston has been a healthy scratch. I bet if Pioli is still somehow here, he's cut or tries to get out via trade.

Bowe might be allowed to walk and the tag placed on Albert.

they are in doomsday mode

everyone sucks
everyone is leaving

we're dOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMed!!!

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/24267377.jpg

Breaston should get cut no matter who the gm is along with Baldwin.

Again, we have to spend the money so there is no reason to get rid of a 1,000 yard receiver in Breaston. A QB will fix him. If Pioli is here, Breaston is here since he brought him in. And when the new GM comes in, he will see the value in Breaston as well.

If Albert gets tagged, Bowe gets signed. Where else would the money go?

"Under Crennel..." Houston was drafted and is played like Mike Vrabel. A versatile OLB who can rush the passer and drop into coverage.

JFC, the 4 man front you refer to is a 2-3-6 with Poe playing a shaded 1 and Jackson/Bailey playing the 3 tech.

Berry isn't large enought to play ILB. Additionally, it is a total waste of his speed, ball skills (which we don't see because he plays in the box as an extra LB). We literally play Berry as another ILB on passing personnel. He has been not so great at it. He needs to play safety.

Don't agree with the 1st part; agree with the second.

Breaston has only played recently due to injuries. He's been a healthy scratch. That means, he isn't valuable or desired or he's pissed somebody off.

That would be like getting rid of a kicker who doesn't kick enough field goals or extra points because they don't get the chance to do it.

He was a Haley guy.....that's why he hasn't played.

whatever works for ya

He isn't valuable because of our QB situation. Ask Boldin, Fitz, and Warner if he is valuable.

If we fire Pioli, there's a chance we can keep BOTH Breaston and Bowe.

If Pioli stays, Breaston will be gone. He's a Haley guy and it's being held against him.

I don't want to cut Breaston.

Isn't Baldwin a Haley guy also? I mean, why would Haley have a say in bringing one in but not the other?

Get Baldwin some good coaching and I think he'd be a great #2.

Care to explain what doesn't make sense about that post?

ROFL

Baldwin was a Pioli draftpick.

I know. And Breaston was a Pioli free agent. Which is why I ask why Haley would have influence over one, but not the other.

I didn't think you did. But I just don't think we need to worry about him or Bowe not returning.

I mean, I can't control what happes so I'm not worried about it. LMAO

However, I think it is entirely plausible that Albert gets the tag, Bowe walks, and Breaston is cut/traded if Pioli is retained. It could also be Albert that walks, especially with Stephensen looking adequate and Baldwin playing poorly this year.

I just don't see how Breaston with his salary stays on this team next year if Pioli is still here.

Not at all.

So you believe Cassel/Quinn are adequately capable of getting the ball to those guys? Or that Daboll is capable of getting putting them in position to succeed?

heh

how dare you, the pitchfork mob has no room for logic

I could absolutely see us pull a Colts move and go from worst to playoffs if we make some good moves this offseason.

We are underachieving this year

It has nothing to do with the qb's and many people on here use the same excuse for Baldwins sucking.

Geno Smith maybe? I'd like to see it tho with out Scott Pioli pulling the trigger. He doesn't deserve to be here. He has done more harm than anything close to being good to this franchise. I don't trust Pioli to pick our QBotf from the draft with our first overall pick.

It has much to do with Cassell and Quinn sucking the life out of this team.

Pioli is almost irrelevant

Quality coaching
Geno Smith
Tavon Austin(or other speed WR)

these 3 things will bring a huge turn around imo

:LOL: You guys new at following this team?

They are going to have to "Show Me."

:sulk:

My bad. I was under the impression the guy that takes ball from between the other guys legs was supposed to find the other guys running around even if it isn't the first option and get them the ball.

I also mentioned Daboll. You ignored that part.

Or it means that our coaching staff is a bunch of morons.

Yup...

Sorry Laz, but they have worn me out.

Are you really convinced they will draft a QB #1 overall, or even draft one in the first round?

We all know they should, but the evidence says they won't.

I would bet higher on them trading the pick for a Flacco type and getting another pick to use on an LSU D-lineman, a CB, WR, or LT to replace a FA Albert.

Pioli is far from irrelevant.

He hires the coaches. Therefore the chances of getting QUALITY coaching is slim to none if he is still in charge.

Unless you consider Josh McDaniel or Eric Mangini to be "quality".

What evidence do you have that they WON'T draft a QB #1 overall?

They've never had the #1 pick, so there's no "evidence" that they'll do anything.

However, there's STRONG evidence that the fanbase is bordering on outright revolt and there's INDISPUTABLE evidence that the stadium is half-full.

They really don't have a choice.

I'd place money on this.

Woodchuck must be banned LOL

Pioli is 0-2 in that department. 0-4 on the QBs that have played for him am counting the backups. I doupt Pioli is going to pick the QB with our first pick he will likely trade down as it will be to tempting to take offers. So he is a major factor going forward with this team. He needs gone out of the picture.

That is just common knowledge. :)

I know they have never had the number 1 pick, in fact the #3 overall pick that the current GM used on Tyson ****ing Jackson is the highest pick they have had since the #2 overall picks of Mike Bell, Neil Smith and Art Still.

That is some pretty good evidence, 4 top three picks, all DL.

Nobody can deny, their procedure for putting butts in the seats in previous years was to acquire an experienced mediocre QB that can get some wins.

Do Clark Hunt and his staff think this fan base has the patience to allow a rookie QB to succeed? I don't.

If they did, we would have seen Stanzi already.

All of those players were taken before the advent of modern football. There was no free agency, no rookie salary slotting, none of that.

And nobody can deny that said approach is no longer putting butts in the seats. That stopped around 1999.

The reason we haven't seen Stanzi is because they think Cassel and/or Quinn is BETTER.

Do you HONESTLY think the reason they haven't played Stanzi is because they think it will cost them ticket sales?

If so, you're damaged past to point of no return. Take a couple of years off from this team, dude.

Yep.

Neil Smith left as a free agent, but yeah, things have changed in that regard, no doubt. But it is still the Hunt owned Chiefs doing things the same old way.


But yet, they keep doing the other things the same old way. DaBoll is Hackett/Rae 2.0 and Cassel/Quinn are Grbac/Gannon/Craig/DeBerg .20 recycled QBs.

They have shown me zero reason to believe they have changed anything.


Exactly, and gives the 1-9 team a better chance to get a ****ing win now and take some heat off.
Exactly, win now with a crap recycled QB instead of letting a Chiefs drafted QB play when things are clearly lost for the season. They saw the fan reaction to Brodie Croyle when he didn't show success right away.
Wins, which result in ticket sales.
Oh I am Parker, backing way the hell off. Thanks. As I said the other day, I am becoming more like a gawker in the opposing lane looking at a bad wreck, hoping nobody got hurt.

Or Stanzi may just not be a good NFL QB. If you can't beat out Quinn or Cassel...I'm not saying I wouldn't want to give him a chance, but he should have seen the field with a 1-10 team. If for nothing else, just seeing if something...ANYTHING works.

You're absolutely right, the Chiefs never draft QB's in the 1st. But I think with the recent success of some rookie QB's, combined with the lack of ANY shred of hope at the QB position since Green went down, the fanbase (even the complete idiots) will give a 1st rd draft pick the time they need to acclimate to the NFL. They have tried drafting DL in the 1st and have been met with nothing but failure.

I'm hopeful that the ungodly amount of sucktitude this team has fielded this season, will give reason to fire Pioli/Crennel/Daboll, hire a solid GM/HC/OC that breaks the cycle, drafts the 1st RD QB that we desperately need, and overhaul the team and immediately puts them back on track to where they should be.

If they don't, and we start next season with Pioli, a minion HC, and a re-tread QB, I'll be convinced, once and for all, that Clark doesn't have any desire to field a quality team.

Chiefs=Suh
Fans=Schaub

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_as.../schaubnut.gif

It is really irritating that the Cards have already started playing Lindley and we've had Stanzi for 2 years and have no idea how he looks like in a game.

it's riskier to trade down from the #1 pick than it is to just stay put and take the best player available.

It would be a huge splash/risk to pass on QB's at #1 and trade down or take a non-QB.

Chiefs are conservative

They might take the QB with the highest floor instead of the highest ceiling but i just don't see them passing on a QB.

Pointless now. As long as it's done shortly after the season.

Stanzi not being a good NFL QB is still an upgrade to the Cassel debacle we have been tortured with for four ****ing years. Nobody except Tyler Palko is that bad.
Bottom line, if they trotted Stanzi out there it would signal two things. They have no faith in their failed retreads any longer, and two they have thrown in the towel for the season, thus admitting failure. They are too ****ing arrogant to do this.

We can only hope that they see the light. Following the Browns model of all of those first round DL sure hasn't worked.
Yep, no doubt. The part that bothers me going forward, is they have a history of repeating the same mistakes hoping for different results.


Succinct

^^^I thought it was applicable. :)

I honestly think that KC can go a long ways towards fixing their issues by hiring Andy Reid if and when he's released from PHI.

Honestly, like Shanahan - I think it would serve him good to take a year off from coaching. 14 years in PHI is a long time and he could very well use the break, considering everything that has gone on in his life.

That being said... if he's ready to immediately start over, I say you go get him as well as a GM like the guy from SF (Vangio or something, I forget). Go get a GM that is strong and creative, someone that will work with Reid and whichever OC & DC he hires.

I think you need creative young minds at the GM and Scouting level - but, you need hard nosed leadership at HC. Reid brings that and you focus on that elusive brass ring for KC - the franchise QB. It may or may not be in this draft class, but look what Reid did with McNabb.

Is there someone like that in this Draft? Possibly... but, you need to bring in a veteran QB to add balance, not a horrific castoff, but someone who can produce adequately while the rookie prepares. Based on recent drafts, rookies have done well more often than not early on.

If Hunt really wants to right this ship... I think you laser focus on Reid, if and only if you get a young GM with something to prove, and you really focus on fixing that QB spot.

KC has lots of building blocks in place at other positions... but, you obviously need a new focus on QB and from a leadership, strategy and focus perspective - the franchise needs an adrenaline shot to the heart. I think Reid is that guy - he fits the style that works in KC and he fits the tradition of the team in my mind. And, not just because he's a fat dude with a stache that likely loves BBQ. :D

With the rookie salary slotting now, they should have ample opportunities to trade the pick.

I hope like heck that they don't but if they can come up with two picks, it would not surprise me.

Especially if they think they could get Aaron Murray later, or someone similar.

Fixed

If the Chiefs pass on a QB, when they are in such dire need, and the top QB prospect goes on to have success the Chiefs would play the fool FOR YEARS to come. Each time the Chiefs lost and Smith/Barkley won an announcer would bring up 'The chiefs had a chance to draft ....'

in fact, Geno Smith, Matt Barkley and Tyler Wilson might ALL be used to talk shit about the Chiefs choice if they have the #1 pick.

The only way the Chiefs could avoid it would be to acquire a legit veteran QB before the draft so they didn't have the QB pressure. But even then it would only lesser the embarrassment a little, unless they win significantly with the veteran QB.

The Hunt family cares about not being embarrassed more than anything except making money. I still think Carl Peterson was fired as much for the 'Monday Night Meltdown' as he was not winning games.

Hunt families top priorities

1. make money
Pioli has done an excellent A+ job. He's made the Hunt family 100-200 million dollars since he got here.

2. Prestige (Don't embarrass the family)
Pioli was fine until this year. The most effective part of the fans rebellion was the media embarrassment it created. The not ever having a lead in a game was an issue too.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ big space here ......... the rest are considered bonus objectives imo +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

3. win games
Not nearly as important to the Hunts as it is the fans but winning games is tied to #1 and #2, so it makes the list (Pioli is 22-37 i think)

4. win a super bowl
vanity reasons for the Hunts more than anything imo ... if would be a feather in their hat.

5. Hire respected coaches
6. acquire a star QB

#5 and #6 are on the list only because they help towards the other priorities. Note it says 'respected' and 'star' not a great ... appearances are huge.