My fear with Alex Smith is that he's a guy that's just good enough to PREVENT the team from drafting a true franchise prospect but he's not good enough to get over the hump.

I don't want to be stuck in another 4-5 years of "close but not quite".

Blow me.

I've wanted Geno Smith for over a year and still do. But unlike you and some others, I'm not going to manipulate facts to fit my narrative.

Smith's a fine NFL quarterback. 'smaqe has the most legitimate concern of all - he may be just good enough to put us into quarterback purgatory, in fact. Alex Smith could make us the Houston Texans, for sure.

But don't sit here and act like Smith couldn't be successful in Reid's system - he absolutely could be.

Has Andy Reid ever met a Mormon QB he did not like? Ty? Koy? Alex next? I'm not suggesting it will happen, merely stating there is a trend. Idk, do Mormons stick together like that?

Physical gifts-wise, he's Matt Cassel.

His instincts and decision making are much better, but not enough to excite me in any way whatsoever... because his arm is just too much of a noodle.

I want "DYNAMIC" to be one of the first words that come to mind when discussing our next QB.

Alex Smith is an average quarterback and yes he could find success with Andy Reid I am not say he can't but the fear of exactly what htismaqe says holds the same for me. I am sick of retread QUARTERBACKS PERIOD! Alex Smith is no different than the quarterbacks we have seen for the past 30 years. Sick of it. Draft Geno #1 and we can start somewhere other than other teams rejects. We don't need to pay Alex Smith on this team, he wasn't good enough for 9ers why do we keep wanting bring in retreads? **** Alex Smith

**** Alex Smith

**** Alex Smith & the "true fan" that want's to bring him here.

I'm a Geno Smith guy also but there are some of us starting to look at the big picture and see how most franchises view things. At this moment there is no evidence that Geno is up near the top of best overall prospects. Time will tell after the combine and pro days. The Chiefs won't reach for a QB just because us fans are desperate for one at #1.

Not wanting Alex Smith is more an issue of pride for me than anything. I imagine it's the same for other posters.

Even though Smith is a far more talented QB than Cassel, and even though he'd be coming aboard as a stop gap to our first round QB in this scenario, it's just been such a shitfest the past seven years that I can't take anymore. We took New England's 3rd stringer (Damon Huard) and made him our STARTER. And if that wasn't bad enough, we paid for their backup and started him for four ****ing years.

The list goes on. Even Trent Green was a piece of garbage that another team didn't want.

Irrational as it may seem, I don't want to deal with this shit again. We've been through so much bullshit in 7 or so seasons that this is what it has come down to. The fans are so battered and frustrated by QB games that what should normally be a positive acquisition would become another pie in the face.

I'll probably forget all about this if we sign Smith AND draft a QB at #1. But that doesn't mean it won't leave a shitty taste in my mouth initially.

Give me smart and accurate.

Frankly, I don't think it's terribly likely that you'll ever hear Geno Smith being called a 'dynamic' quarterback. He makes his bones through touch/accuracy and being prudent with the football. He's a perfect Reid QB in that he combines that with an above average arm and mobility when needed, but he's not Stafford or even Josh Freeman back there.

I don't see ASmith as being the noodle-arm some are claiming here. His arm strength is really pretty similar to Sam Bradford's. If you're going to use a Bell Curve for starting NFL quarterbacks, he's probably gets a C-. He doesn't have a cannon, but he's also not Ponder (in fact, I think his arm is probably better than Daltons, but Dalton gets to throw to AJ Green).

Ah...so emotion and animus as the foundation for building a 53 man roster.

Got it.

Esto.

That's really my point.

Yeah, I want Geno Smith in here, but that's not going to stop me from looking objectively at Alex Smith. And you bring up a very good name with Trent Green - they're very similar players and Trent Green was not the reason we failed under Vermeil.

One can argue strongly in favor of Geno without having to shit on Alex. Geno is a good enough prospect to succeed on his merits and win on argument solely on the strength of same. As this is an Alex Smith thread and not yet another Geno Smith thread, shouldn't we try to discuss Smith in a vacuum? Or at least with some degree of objectivity?

Alex Smith could easily be another Trent Green for us. And while that's not as sexy as being the next Aaron Rodgers - there's value in it.

I'll be damn bummed out if we go with Alex over Geno. But there's some chicken salad that could eventually be made out of it.

And with the loads of chicken shit we've been shoveled over the last 1/2 decade, a little chicken salad would be a nice start.

Got it so you aprove of how Carl Peterson and Scott Pioli did things to bring us a Super Bowl Championship. Bringing in Alex Smith is no different than what they did.

Yeah, he's definitely a qualified pro, no question about it... there simply isnt any excitement factor about him in most eyes.

The single most damning statement i've read on him, maybe ever, is yours...

"Alex Smith could make us the Houston Texans, for sure"

I dont want to top out at that, thats not the goal.

Except for the fact that guys that do REAL scouting for a living, like Dan Shonka, have Geno Smith at the top of their big boards, yeah, there's no evidence...

Look, I like you and think you bring a lot to the discussion.

But the whole "some of us starting to look at the big picture and see how most franchises view things" is pretty condescending.

You don't know, anymore than the rest of us, what teams are thinking. Looking at things conservatively doesn't make you correct.

This is kind of where I'm at.

So you're going to continue to try to get the angry mob on your side by ignoring the substance of my posts and instead citing names that you know people won't like, eh?

You really suck at this.

Go ahead and point out where I endorsed bringing in Alex Smith instead of Geno Smith.

I'll wait...

Smith is a nice QB. He's athletic, very smart, very accurate and has a nice feel for the game.

However, he doesn't have an arm that's going to allow him to go over the top of defenses with regularity.

He's most likely going to end up in Arizona as he's a west coast guy originally, but there is a possibility of him in Kansas City, New York Jets, Jacksonville, Oakland, San Diego (there's a lot of fans beginning to really get vocal about Rivers and his shitty attitude and inability to get anything done in the red zone year after year), Dallas (see Rivers), Cleveland or even Tampa Bay, where Freeman looks to have regressed but there is talent around him now.

Right now, I'd put Smith's list as:

1. Cardinals
2. Browns
3. Chiefs
4. Jaguars
5. Jets

Alex Smith is a major upgrade to anyone we have on the roster, but I'd much rather have Geno, sign Jason Campbell (who is a UFA that has nice skills, a good arm and experience in the league) and draft another guy in 2013 in the later rounds. As it stands, I think Campbell would be absolutely perfect in Reid's offense and is at the point of his career where he'd take that backup role to a guy like Geno.

In this day and age, you've got to have a guy who possesses the threat of taking the top off the defense. Geno has displayed that numerous times throughout his college career.

I have read that you want Geno Smith I am super cool with that. You also suggest that bringing in Alex Smith would be a good thing. I argue with that on that notion.

Why wouldnt you want Smith as a backup?

I don't think Smith fits in Phoenix.

If there's a guy out there that likes to throw deep more than Reid, it's Arians.

I agree. I want to draft a QB #1 and have a shitty backup (Cassel esqe) that way when the young QB struggles I don't have to hear idiot Chiefs fans wanting the backup to play, which is what will happen if Alex Smith or Flynn is here.

Because he's coming off a very good season where he was leading the NFL in completion and rating and if a rookie QB struggles, which they will, there is going to be that "quarterback controversy" thing that will rear it's ugly head.

Having that spector looming over your shoulder as a rookie QB in the NFL isn't the best way to develop confidence.

However, a guy like Campbell, who's taken a backup role the past couple of seasons, wouldn't present that "QB controversy" potential like a guy like Alex Smith would to the fans and the coaching staff.

And in the NFL, your window is always closing faster than you think.

If Scott Pioli would've brought Alex Smith or Matt Schaub in 4 years ago, I think it would've been a very smart move. He could've worked on getting the team moving in the right direction with a competent, qualified signal caller. The offense could've built some cohesion and the core of young players we have could've matured into their primes....sometime around 2012. In the interim, he could've looked at Russell Wilson or even Kaepernick to take over when the team outruns the talent of Smith/Schaub.

Now, however, we have way too many of our best players right smack in the middle of their primes. This is a pretty awful time to be setting your ceiling at the Texans.

They need to take a HR swing here or risk losing out on the primes of some of the (no shit) best players to ever play their positions for this franchise.

I'd have loved to be able to step up to greatness because that's usually what it takes for young teams. My favorite line is one I stole from a hockey analogy - they have knock on the door before they can kick it in. That said, Pioli cost us that luxury by shitting himself for 4 years. We have to skip the stop-gap and go the high-risk, high-reward route.

I liked Campbell as a possible Cassel replacement, but oddly enough, I don't care for him in a Reid system.

He's mobile, but he's not terribly accurate and he's prone to bouts of insane idiocy in his decision-making.

That said, the backup QB pool is pretty slim (because I don't see Alex coming here as a backup). I'd prefer someone like Moore if he shook loose, but we could do a hell of a lot worse than Campbell.

Yep, everything here is dead on.

Its time for a dinger swing.

Absolutely agree.

And that's why you like him as a backup versus the first round starter he was originally envisioned as. Add to that he's had some pretty shitty coaching and opportunities in his career. He's as likely to develop positively under Reid as anyone. And I think he's got the tools to be a very good 2nd option/scout team guy for the Chiefs.

I don't want him starting, but I think he's a pretty good option at #2 and probably could be had relatively cheap at this point.

Yeah, no more bunting.

Can't think of one reason.

Problem is that I think he's going to hand pick his place where he's the for sure starter. And that probably won't be us.... Or if it is, we've got problems.

If it keeps us from drafting someone 1r then I'd be furious. If it's depth as a FA to go along w/ a QBOTF drafted high then I'd be ambivalent. The reality is we need to add two QB's. There's no one on our roster I want as a #2 let along QB1.

Here's the thing with Alex Smith. He was drafted under incompetent defensive head coaches. He finally gets an offensive coach that is good with QB's, and he shines. I think the same would continue with Reid. He took his team to the NFC title last year and was on his way to taking them to the Super Bowl this year.

I know, I know, it's the D that carries the niners, but at least he's capable of being an effective QB in the NFL.

Having said all that, I still would rather the chiefs take Geno number one, and then take another QB in the third or fourth round. I just don't think they are going to. I think the Chiefs will take either Luke Joekel or Latuoi if they can't trade out of the first pick, but, of course, that will be determined by what happens in free agency.

I could see the Chiefs going after Alex Smith or Flynn (my opinion, not my choice), and then using the first pick on another position. and still taking a qb later in the second or third. It really all depends on what they think of Geno Smith vs. available free agents.

Flynn is going to cost draft picks, no?

Right now, both Smith and Flynn would cost draft picks.

Understood on both counts. But Smith is apparently going to ask for a release which would make the scenario different. I want no draft picks spent for either.

The problem is he's going to want starter money and someone will give it to him. If he comes here, it'll be other team's leftover QB bullshit extravaganza version one billion. Kiss drafting a QB in the 1st goodbye and maybe a mid to late round QB as a backup. Same old same old.

Thats stupid.

You add the best players who give your team a chance to win to the roster. If Geno Smith isnt ready you can play and win games with Alex Smith. I dont think you can say the same for Jason Campbell.

NO .....

He's a QB that you have to 'protect' with scheme, so no.


we want a guy that makes the offense better not one that you have to scheme so he doesn't implode.

Isnt that how most backups are used?

He is asking for a release because he has no interest in being a backup...even making 9 million to do so.

Yes, but i don't think we are in a position to intentionally grab a backup when we don't have a starter yet. We want to shoot for 2 starters and hope we end up with more than we need.

If a person advocating for Smith admits he is a C- (which I think is fair), you can see why none of us are excited. If the football gods could promise that he would never play a down for the Chiefs unless our #1 QB was injured, I'd be okay with Smith. If, however, there is even a 5% chance that he has a good preseason and they decide to not start Geno in favor of him, then I don't want him. All of us fear that the retread below average QB will become acceptable in a league were having a top QB is an absolute prerequisite to post-season success.

I hate to say it, but the more likely scenario would be Reid keeping Cassel and playing him to try and build trade value while grooming Geno to take over.

I agree with this, with one caveat. Say we draft Geno number one and some other guy like Bray, Nassib, or whoever with a third or fourth. Say neither guy is remotely ready for the NFL during training camp, like happened with Eli Manning. Who is our guy to go into the season with while the rooks learn the ropes without getting lambasted? Is this town ready to let Matt Cassel stay for half a season? I'm not. RG3 and Luck were different. One was NFL ready, and the other, they adapted the offense to suit him and how he's got a destroyed knee. I'd love to persue Alex Smith, Matt Hasselbeck, or whoever Reid thinks can run his O while we develop our QBOTF

This.

he wasn't good enough for a coach and team bent on the superbowl



naturally, he'd be a great fit in KC...

C- arm.

I think he's probably a C+/B- quarterback.

Any player drafted #1 overall is starting Day 1 or not long after that. No matter how ready he is.

Unfortunately, I agree with this. It makes me want to puke, but I fear even worse. I fear that the chiefs don't use the first rounder on Geno, and they take Cassel into the season with some limpdick like Nassib that they get in the third, knowing that they will be taking another next year. I really hope Geno lights up the combine and proday, Reid loves his film study of him, and they have him top five on their board. If they have him top 5, they will take him with number one.

He's on a 1 year deal at this point and nobody's going to trade for a QB mid-season.

I don't think Reid would have any interest in teaching Cassel a new system, only to jettison and have to teach the new QB a new system again the next season. There is no trade value to build because he's a pending FA and there's no way in hell they bring him back when his contract is up after this coming season.

I don't see a scenario where Cassel is on this roster next year unless it's purely as a backup.

.

Cassel is under contract the next two years...but with Dorsey's comments about the situation, I expect Cassel to be cut as soon as its fiscally reasonable to do so.

Well I'll be damned...that deal was even worse than I always had in my head. Here I thought that ****o only signed him to a 5-year deal....

Wow, Scott Pioli really is reeruned.

This.

From what I can figure, if we cut him later and spread the cap hit, we actually SAVE against the cap by cutting him because the base salaries are so much higher than the pro-rated portion of his signing bonus.

The bright side is that when they asked Dorsey if Cassel would be retained, his response was something like "we'll, you never say never"...hinting that him returning was a serious long shot.

The writing is on the wall...we are drafting a quarterback and Cassel and Quinn are gone and Stanzi probably needs o really step it up or he will be, too.

Scott Pioli gave Matt Cassel $46.5 million to be one of the 3 worst quarterbacks in the NFL over the duration of that deal.

If nothing else, he deserved to get fired because of that decision. Throw in the amount of ticket sales and lost revenue due to fan apathy, and Scott Pioli cost his boss about $60+ million with one stupid !@#$ing decision alone. Then he doubled down on said decision.

Incredible.

I pretty much expect these guys to do the right thing and think they will.

Jackson will be either restructured or cut (I'd like to see him restructure and stay, I think he is a good player...just no way he is worth keeping at 15 million bucks) and Cassel will be released.

Then, take that money and give it to Albert and Bowe.

Another thing I'd like to see happen is them to bring back Dorsey on a 1 year deal and see if he can play the 1 gap nose...personally, I think he has what it takes to play that role well.

Don't forget Tyson Jackson at 3 getting a 57 million dollar contract...and Pioli restructuring it in April of 2012 to make it a 2 year 20 million dollar dal.

Cassel and Tyson Jackson are who we thought they were...120 million reasons to be insane.

Alex Smith = Back Up QB

I don't know what to think of Glenn Dorsey other than big disapointment. Can he even stay healthy? If so then maybe he would be fine, I have my doubts about him being any good from now on. He may show flashes now and then but he hasn't shown anything of being worthy where we took him at. I can live with G Dorsey one more year but he better show something and be able stay healthy. I don't want to take draft picks on the D line this year that is for sure.

I wouldnt be too surprised to see him in buffalo, he wouldnt be a bad choice to pair with their noob head coach, it would give the guy a serviceable, steady pro to help get his new era off on the right foot.

The free agent QB we need to bring in is Hasselbeck. The dude has shown some very important traits:
1) He is willing to usher a new QB in.
2) He can win games as a backup should the QBOTF go down.
3) He can provide veteran leadership to a team that sorely needs it.

But he's ancient and hasn't played well in years

I just checked his contract status and the Titans still have him anyway. But the dude definitely made chicken salad out of chicken shit last year when he was cast into the fire. Ancient or not, he understands the role of a mentor and would be a great fit.

The 1 gap nose is a perfect fit for a guy like Glenn IMO.

In college, his first step was ELITE quality and made him disruptive and that is he he was thought of as such a great prospect...but he could also stop the run with the best of them by 2 gapping (which is what he did most of he time at LSU)...then, we moved to a full time 2 gap defense and that permanently took away the strength of his game which was that dominant first step.

If we put him in a 1 gap nose type roll, that first step comes back and we have a player on our hands.

I would agree with you only if Dorsey can stay healthy and on the field to do so. That is my major concern on Glenn Dorsey.

Mine too.

And it was a concern coming out of college as well. Most of us just didn't want to hear it.

Clayton just said on ESPN that had Pioli not been fired, Bowe wouldn't have even been offered a contract.

STFU tool. Always looking to next year like idiots without a clue. Alex Smith wouldn't be good for anyone's team. Take him out of that nurturing talent factory that is SF and he's Cassel. DO NOT WANT.

This and Piolis top ten list makes me gleeful that he was shitcanned.

He's going to want to be a starter and compensated as such. Some team will oblige.

Not surprising at all. Pioli is Blackbob.

Even if he only got them a fourth rounder in a trade, they would be foregoing a free fourth rounder to acquiesce to his wishes. That's idiotic.

If Alex Smith becomes a free agent, we should absolutely sign him.

Trading picks for him... eh. We have way too many holes to trade picks unless it's bringing in more picks.

He would be a fine veteran starter. He played well for SF down the stretch last year and for a chunk of this year.

Someone compared him to Trent Green. Is that a bad thing? Green - who by the way had a powerful offensive line with a franchise left tackle - was the best QB this team's had since before most of you were born.

We sign Smith, then in the draft we take BPA at #1 and get two QBs later in the draft, preferably higher in the rest of the draft.

That's the highest tide we could bring in in terms of talent, IMO.

What 2 Qbs are you wanting to take later?

Geno Smith> Alex Smith + Landry Jones + Sorenson.

"BPA at 1."

Great. We could have Nearly Headless Nick play for us. AND Alex Smith.

WHAT A DEAL

And they won all those games in the playoffs too...oh wait...

EJ Manuel and Zac Dysert.

You know, Cam Newton and Ben Roethlisberger.

I'm sure that is what Lions fans said about Joey Harrington.

We bring in one guy who we know already can play the position in the NFL, and then we work on our projects too. This is the steady improvement approach.

With the team the way it is, we won't be competing for the postseason the first year anyway.

I compared him to Trent Green because the Rams had him as the starter, then found somebody better. Then they let him rot until we came by and coughed up a 1st rounder to not win any playoff games.

Worst QB play in league history and these dumb****s want to stay status quo....WOW, what is the definition of insanity again?