We're not talking about the daughter of sharecroppers in rural Alabama who grew up during the 50's.

She was born in 1975, in New Jersey, to a couple parents who were both working professionals who could afford a decent middle class lifestyle. She had advantages that many others, white or black, did not have, and she made millions.

She doesn't get to cloak herself with a shield of black sympathy after going all Wesley Snipes on us. She needs to go to prison, and NONE of this stuff you cited is relevant in this case.

aren't there enough problems in our country vs. other countries hating us, that we can't just all be Americans and stand as one. Racism=a waste of time

Not true. They pay payroll taxes.

well they aren't innocent

they broke the law

yep. The rich, ie the "top 5%, top 1%", etc still pay most of the taxes, but payroll taxes can't be thrown out. They still count as a tax on income.

they broke an unjust law.

It's illegal because it can help people and it's profitable to arrest people for it. That is our tyrannical government at work.

I once fought a parking ticket with the argument that my ancestors moved with the railroad and thus had little opportunity to purchase parking spots. It didn't work.

The "wonder plant" which isn't a drug and cures cancer.

Fascist, totalitarian state just wants to keep it down.

Yep.

Always nice to see one of the side effects of the non-drug on display, however.

Never said it was.

But it's one of the reasons.

They use their money wisely and take deductions to reduce their tax burden.

I do the same thing.

And I watched Django Unchained last night for the first time.

How appropriate eh???

i know.

i just wanted to clarify because some of the jealous people will try to tear you down

LMAO now that's funny!
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Guess what? I wasn't talking about an individual person. I was speaking in broad terms.

I understand this thread is about Lauryn Hill but we've got people in here talking about "ninjas gonna ninja" and "this is why stereotypes exist". Those are broad comments.

Some people like to think their is no basis for reparations (or things like affirmative action). However, if you know your history...

So do you believe that, if your grandfather was a murderer, we should punished or treat you like a murderer?

Yes thanks for the history lessons, professor.

Basis or justification for?

Going to Jail. Say hello to Wesley Snipes.

Real easy for us white guys to say "get over it!" I mean, she was born ELEVEN YEARS after the Civil Rights Act. There's no way there was any residual racial bias or struggle! I mean, no one alive in 1975 was racist, right? Certainly no one who worked in government or for schools or in positions of authority or people with hiring power at businesses or judges or cops. The second they ratified the amendment, everyone collectively stopped believing in segregation.

Oh, and New Jersey integrated in the forties. Which means her parents likely attended "colored only" schools for at least a few years. Her grandparents certainly did. So don't say "derp she's middle class from New Jersey, she doesn't have struggles!" Because you just sound ignorant.

think about this: Every single one of our fathers could remember a time when blacks weren't allowed to use the same bathroom. Some of the posters here can. That shit isn't "past us." If you think it is, then you're living in a little white fantasy world.

That said, I think she's a complete c*nt. But being a c*nt doesn't make your points completely invalid.

Purely coincidentally, I went to bed last night thinking about how the Constitution was ratified by a group of people that in no way represented a majority. Blacks, Indians, women, and non-land-owning white men were all subjected to laws they had absolutely no voice in creating or approving. In fact, only six percent of the American population was allowed to vote when the Constitution was ratified and had to silently obey laws thrust upon them with say. That sounds like the very definition of tyranny.

She has a point. It's not a point you like, but it's a real point.

She has a point? That she shouldn't pay taxes on the millions she earned because slavery existed? That's a 'point'? I guess. Somehow, in a totally irrelevant way.

If you know your history, you know that the 3/5ths was strictly about voting apportionment and not an actual comment on blacks being 3/5 human. Free states wanted slaves to go uncounted while slave states wanted them counted as a full person for electoral college and House of Representative purposes. Furthermore, free blacks, obviously most of whom would be in free states (on a percentage basis, at least) got a 1:1 representation. If we were to try breaking it down using your logic, we'd come to the bizarre claim that the north/free states thought blacks weren't people while the south/slave states thought there were on equal footing with whites.

So either you're an idiot, or you've got an agenda that you consider more important than the truth. Either way, you're in no position to lecture others about knowing their history, so take your shit to DC where it belongs.

Having a point doesn't mean you win the argument. I'm just saying she's not completely insane for claiming that there is still a severe racial gap in this country. That doesn't mean she doesn't have to follow the same rules.

I'm not talking about her tax evasion as much as I am the question of reparations in general.

Pay your taxes, and STFU, bitch!

No, she doesn't.

Severe racial gap?

Maybe one day we'll bridge that gap by having affirmative action, making it illegal to discriminate based on race, have a Black POTUS...

Oh, wait.

LMAO

Don't be ****ing naive.

Yeah, keep waiting for reparations.

Having a mouth doesn't mean you have a point.

She formed cogent sentences in establishing a complete non-sequitur. That doesn't mean she has a point.

yeah...it cracked me up!

Well, perhaps you'd be willing to actually define what you see as the "severe racial gap" you just professed?

It might be easier to buy into her position if she would have taken her money and moved back to Africa, but for some reason she had a way out of the oppression and stayed here.

What she is doing is the very epitome of "playing the race card." The fact is that she is required by law to subsidize the government based, in part, on how much income she receives. There is nothing in the history of this country or her personal experiences that alter that legal requirement.

Blacks make up 12% of the US population and 38% of the federal prison population, while whites make up 72.4% of the population and only 34% of the federal prison population. This is after a severe drop over the last decade for incarcerated blacks.

You can read about the advancement here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/28/us...hows.html?_r=0

Interestingly enough, another article came out on 2.27.13.

This one says that the wealth gap between blacks and whites has nearly tripled in the last 25 years.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...owing/1948899/

Blacks also have more than twice the high school drop out rate than whites.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d...s/dt10_113.asp

so, you either think these facts are due to blacks being categorically inferior to whites or it is due to a system that is stacked against them.

EDIT: These were the first three things off the top of my head. I'm sure...
voting rates.
Percentage in elected office.
Likelihood of being a victim of violent crime.
Poverty rate.
life span
college degrees
higher degrees

and incalculable other conditions vastly favor whites.

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Bumps the same guy who thought Android and Microsoft were the same thing.

ROFL @ :17

“lern hadn’t paid texas”

you gotta pay your texas.

I know exactly why the 3/5 compromise came to be. The point remains the same.

Our constitution did not recognize blacks as citizens until the 15th ammendment. Even free blacks in northern states were denied citizenship/right to vote.

The point was that our own constitution was systematically racist up until the 1880s and into the 20th century.

Do not confuse the point.

Both.

I see no problem with proactively improving the prospects of African Americans with things like Affirmative Action. A large portion of the black population has had to deal with lack of resources/life chances afforded to them due to lasting affects from our country's racist past.

I'm aware of all of these. Now, please explain how "the system is stacked against them" and why.

I can understand AA to a certain degree, but not reparations.

Then all the proceeds from however many albums it takes to pay it off can go to the IRS. Equal representation under the law, ignorance of the law is no excuse, and stupidity is no defense.

Maybe she can get a loan and pay it back right now..... oh wait that would be slavery to a bank.

Her problem is the same as Vince Young, Mike Tyson and everyone else who when they finally made money did zero planning to protect it and make it grow.

It was all bling bling bling look at me I'm a pop star.

**** that.

This is a complex issue. There is no simple answer.

You can see that there is an issue (as evidenced by sapho's statistics). A historical perspective has been offered as to why these issues exist.

Not sure what else you want....

I'm aware of the issues and the statistics. I'm just not aware of how or what "the system being stacked against them" means. Based on the illegality of racial discrimination, it would seem that our historical racial slavery should become less and less of an excuse as time goes on, no?

Why must the ratio of "percentage of population" to "bad things" be the same for every demographic subgroup?

How many times does it need to be said?? We are two generations removed from the Civil Rights Movement. A magic button wasn't pressed to make everybody not racist anymore and put everybody on equal footing. All of societies ills didn't just vanish. Seriously, man. Do you live in a vacuum?

Those disparities are what statisticians would call "statistically significant". Which basically says "we need to analyze this" to a statistician.

So, why do these disparities exist? Coincidence? Is it because blacks are just bad people? Or could the answer be much more complex? What do you think? Seriously, what do you think? I want to know.

Again, I'm just not aware of how or what "the system being stacked against them" means. You didn't write that, but if you agree with it, I'd like hear your opinion on the specifics.

So who's fault is it that black kids drop out of school? Whitey's?

It's the white man's fault because they're in prison?

I guess it's the white mans fault that they have babies and don't raise em.

I guess it's the white mans fault that some of them are on welfare.

They made these choices, they can live with it.

I think it's pretty clear that Black people have a propensity to commit crimes that land them in jail at a higher rate than White people.

That and wearing their pants around their ****ing ankles gives them street cred.

I don't know! Why do white people dance badly?

Also, even if these problems do stem from slavery, how in the hell is giving them money going to fix it? How is affirmative action going to fix it? Answer: It's not. It gives no stimulus to change the behaviors causing the problem in the first place. I think that can only be cured over time.

Ok. I have said that this is a complex issue with a myriad of contributing factors.

But you want specifics...

Many urban blacks do not have access to quality education at their inner city public schools. That statement is specific.

Now, you would probably like to know why inner city schools are bad. Well, there is a very complex answer with a myriad of contributing factors. Many of those factors stem from the historical issues which we have discussed.

Time

No idea what you're talking about.

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I can tell you this much - if anyone's waiting for the government or government money to get them out of a bad situation they're wasting their time.

Thanks. Why or how is slavery or racism responsible for many inner city schools being crappy?

I would like both of you to answer this one question, right now. Yes or no. Nothing else. Just YES or NO.

If a brand new society was started on Mars using the DNA of blacks and whites to create the children that would make up this brand new society (obviously, everybody in the society starts on completely equal footing). Do you think (generations down the road) that blacks would commit a statistically significant more amount of the crime there?

YES or NO

What if I'm descended from one of the hundreds of thousands of union soldiers who died fighting for their freedom? Great-great-grandpa frazod might have ended up being a land baron or railroad tycoon, but instead he got his ass shot off at Fredericksburg. What do I get?

**** your reparations.

No.

Excuses, excuses for not paying taxes!

I have already stated that I believe that slavery/racism has nearly everything to do with it.

What do you believe is the explanation?

There's seriously people making excuses for her in here? Blathering on about reparations doesn't exonerate her from ducking taxes, period.

I would imagine that crappy teachers are a large part of it, along with a substantial amount of not giving a shit by the students.

I would also think that having over 50% (I think) of Black families not having a father present would contribute not only to crappy schools, but also drug use and other illegal activities.

I am not advocating 40 acres and a mule, dude. Of course that wouldn't work.

But I do believe there is justification for our government to proactively attempt to undo some of the issues created by our forefathers.

I was simply pointing out that it isn't nutty to believe in something like reparations.

I do not believe that handing over money or goods is the answer, though. I never said that.

In our society on Mars would more black children end up fatherless than white children?

Yes or no?

I'm not sure about the slavery thing, but I don't know how anyone could not want to skip out on taxes. Why don't they take some of that quadra billion dollar defense budget or the millions in foreign aid or the unlimitless billions from NASA. So many people back the government even though they get ****ed by them daily. It's mind bottling.

As does just about everyone else.

Here's the problem - it's been tried. Over and over and over again it's been tried. Magnet schools, minority scholarships, huge education grants to predominantly minority schools, funding formula modifications, on and on and on.

The government has done a TON to try to get more education to disenfranchised minorities but the problem is that oftentimes the family simply does not do their part in it.

"Provide education" is always the easy answer, but it presupposes that the government hasn't tried to do exactly that. They most certainly have and at some point, the black community has to take ownership of the fact that they have very frequently pissed those opportunities away.

that bitch knows NOTHING about being a slave what happened 400 years ago or even 100 years ago, is irrelevent to her, maybe her grandmother or her great grandmother, but to her? absolutely NOTHING.

I hate when people do that shit, its like bitch, you dont know what its like to be a slave.

I would hope not. But I guess I don't see what slavery and racism has to do with the Blacks fathers' decisions to not take care of their kids.

Would the coca plant grow on this planet?

Insightful historical analysis.

You're being too impatient. Remember where this country was just two generations ago.

I think those government initiatives toward the education of minorities are working. Things are improving and will continue to do so as long as they are in place.

Things don't change over night. Let this play out, man. It IS working.

Dumb bitch

Yes

Doesn't Lauryn Hill realize that slavery was necessary to teach black folks discipline and give them work skills?

/BEP aka BucEyedPea

Can you offer a reason as to why we don't see it in our society on Mars, but we see it here?

NO

DUhr

unless of course there is some kind of genetic predisposition - after all there is genetic predisposition to make dudes like other dudes

reparations and affirmative action don't fix the problem NOW though

generations of blacks need to unlearn destructive behavior and generations of whites need to unlearn their racist/whatever behavior

...and I definitely agree with you.

However, there were a few people in this thread that were getting carried away with the idea that believing in a need for reparations makes a person "crazy". It is not crazy. But, it is also not the answer (which you have pointed out).

Government initiatives to further the education of minorities have a much more lasting benefit (as was pointed out by another poster).

Sure, but let's see why you think it is here first.

Specifically, the judge and prosecutor, who, statistically, are likely to be white.

http://www.allgov.com/news/top-stori...es?news=843984