What's your familiarity with the structure of NFL contracts and their negotiations?

I mean I'm assuming you're not just speaking irresponsibly of things you know nothing about. What NFL contracts have you looked over? You seem to have some knowledge about what is and what isn't clearly stated to the player.

I mean for all I know these contracts are 27 pages and very confusing for the average person. I have no idea at all what an NFL contract looks like.

I respectfully disagree. There are quite a number of people besides sports figures and entertainers who earn a living from their "talent". I certainly do and I'm sure you do to. I have an employment contract that I have signed and it states all of the benefits I'm entitled to as well as my bonus structure. Before I signed it, I had my personal lawyer read it over just to make sure that I understood all of the language in it.

My lawyer doesn't have to contact me daily to let me know what is in my contract and I'm able to focus on my job while still worrying about all the mundane details of my day to day life including taking care of my own finances.

The problem is that these players are used to being coddled and have never had to take responsibility for the details in their day to day lives. They just assume that somebody is taking care of the stuff they are either not interested in worrying about or not smart enough to understand. Many of the retired players who have seen their fortunes reduced to nothing because they didn't take the time to understand what was happening with their money will tell you that they wish they would have taken a more active interest into their contracts and finances.

Wonder if he wants he agent to wipe his ass. When discussing money, it helps to be the smartest guy in the room. Brown ****ed up. He trusted the wrong people.

Wrong people? He hired a respected agent from a reputable sports marketing firm. It's not like he hired an agent he met at Sears.

And yes, when you have a 1-time clause worth $2M, the agent should know about it and push on it. Instead, the agent lost out on commission for that $2M and I'm sure it's going to hurt his ability to attract future clients. His agent, by a mile, is the idiot here.

Trust but verify.

We get it. You hate young, rich men.

Not at all. I despise people that don't take an active interest in the issues that effect their lives and then try to blame others when things go bad.

Couldn't agree more. It's always someone else's fault isn't it................

I really don't think you understand what an agents/managers job is and why they are hired.

If the players have to take an active interest in their contracts then there would be no point in hiring agents. But the players don't have the time for that and don't have the knowledge necessary to do that. Its the agents job to interpret the contract to them and make sure they know what's going on at all times regarding clauses.
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[QUOTE=-King-;9837680]I really don't think you understand what an agents/managers job is and why they are hired.

If the players have to take an active interest in their contracts then there would be no point in hiring agents. But the players don't have the time for that and don't have the knowledge necessary to do that. Its the agents job to interpret the contract to them and make sure they know what's going on at all times regarding clauses.
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Wow! If it comes to gaining or losing 2 mil, I would hope to be knowledgeable

Depending on the amount of bonuses and/or incentives involved the addendum can get up to 10 or 20 pages or more.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/5-components-of-an-NFL-contract-that-may-surprise-you.html
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An agents job is to negotiate the contract, ensure that the contract is written in a way that protects the client, and explain the contract to the player. They are not glorified babysitters.

Agents are basically full-service lawyers for the player. If I'm arrested and I hire a lawyer that argues on my behalf and instead of going to jail I get paroled with the expectation that I will not break the law again or I will go to jail, do you think it is that lawyer's responsibility to call me every day to remind me not to break the law?

Yes. Because calling everyday is what we've been saying the agent should have been doing. :facepalm:
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If there was a mandatory parole hearing 3 years from today, I would expect my lawyer would at least call me to remind me.

Why? The lawyer is not going to jail if you don't show up.

Typical dumbass response. Somebody better remind me of my responsibilities or I will blame them for my problems. :deevee:

If a lawyer stops serving you because it no longer fits his best interests, then he is a shitty lawyer. This is a service industry. Especially in the agency world where your reputation means everything, I'd want to think this agent would be smart enough to not let something like this slip past him, especially since he's the most well-versed on the specifics of the contract.

And again, the agent screwed himself because he now doesn't earn commission on that $2M. All he had to do was pick up the phone. You want to blame the player (who is, from reports, actually doing his own workouts) but not the agent who only had to pick up the phone and call.

How the hell is Monty Beisel beating the SS Minnow?

I am suuuuuuuuure he was never told about the clause.

I would imagine his agent should have told him about the contract more thoroughly.
I also would imagine that he will be told he should have read it before he signed the contract.

Yep

Anyone who doesn't fully read a contract before signing is a complete dumbass.

Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!

Hernandez : 'If you can get me some more stamps and soups up in here, then I'll get it done...'

tell me the details of your latest cell phone contract or rental car contract. or the last update for Microsoft Office.

there are some contracts you sign just because you have no choice so you just have to close your eyes and not worry about the fine print. I hate that but its true..

Someone offers me a couple million and you can rest assured I don't treat it like a rico post and go TLDR :D

Yep

Yep

Brown is claiming that he was in frequent contact with his agent. He claims that the clause never really came up. Which I'm inclined to believe, because it really does genuinely seem like Brown flat out did not know about this. It will be interesting to see if Brown mentioned he was working out on his own and his agent said nothing.

It doesn't help that his agent is a contract lawyer. This is an unbelievable oversight on his part.

It's possible he told Brown about it. I'm inclined to believe that given he had money on the line too, he would have been forceful about it if he did and certainly wouldn't have ever let him work out on his own.

When it comes to millions of dollars, yes.


Don't forget that he is a CB, so he probably has the IQ of a doorstop. Reading is not required in his field of expertise.

Especially agents who pored through the contract, negotiated the terms, and have experience in contract law.

I should point out that he went to the University of Texas, so he must be pretty bright unless things have changed since I went there.

LMAO

So he is admitting that he didn't read his contract. That is his fault. I can't blame him for firing his agent. I would feel like the agent cost me the money as well. But the bottom line does not change. It was Browns legal responsibility to know what was in the contract before he signed the contract. He did not do that so he has no one to blame past himself. He probably will not trust his next agent.

I just have a funny image of him staring at the contract and going "**** it TLDR"

If you pay an agent to represent you, and he's the one telling you that it's okay to workout somewhere else, that's advice and counsel. And it's pretty much malpractice because he gave counsel that he absolutely should have known was wrong. People act like we're talking about educated Harvard students who negotiate their contracts. They hire agents who are more than likely reading high level points about the salary. It's possible this clause was barely even communicated to him in the talking points.

That is especially worse if his agent had power of attorney.

This agent has how many players that he is responsible for? If the player doesn't ask a direct question reguarding this where the agent would look up that information then it is not the agents fault.
I would imagine that it would be difficult to keep those contracts straight off the top of your head.

Bevo colored glasses?

If his agent actually said it was okay to not attend, then he is a paid contract lawyer who gave advice that was completely incorrect. Don't give advice without referencing the contract. It will also be interesting to see if this agent had power of attorney.

If he has so many clients that he can't remember this kind of a major detail, then shame on him. And he's paying for it dearly. I am sure it's going to really hurt his ability to get and keep clients.

If you believe Brown, the two talked frequently. How can an agent interact with his client without knowing a thing about contracts, especially when that is your bread and butter? You'd expect it from a lesser educated guy with no contractual experience (it's possible he heard and read the terms but didn't understand it, which is why he hired an attorney). You don't expect that from a guy whose life is built around negotiating contracts.

That is the littlest word with the biggest meaning.
Proving that is going to be very hard. Good luck to him on that. I bet that he cannot prove that and he will just be out the money.

If I received a contract that large, the pages would be stuck together from signing it in Fap juice.

Why are you so eager to accept the word of the player who just gave up 2 million dollars? Do you honestly think the agent never mentioned a 2 million dollar workout clause in this players contract?

It's not the agents responsibility to to make sure the player is following through with his obligations after the player has been told about the parameters of his contract. This is an employment contract and it is the employee's responsibility to know what is in his contract. You here all the time players say "it's a business". Well, dumbass, act like it's a business and take care of your side of the business.

The agent gets 3% commission on the workout clause. If the agent knew the clause existed, don't you think he would have been pushy about it? It seems to me that didn't happen, and that Brown genuinely did not know it was there. It looks like an oversight on both their parts.

If the agent who knows the contract gives advice and counsel that is incorrect, then it's his obligation to know the right answer before giving it. It's not like you can claim he had incomplete information. It sounds like he knew Brown wasn't attending and didn't check to see if that was okay, even worse if he was asked if it was okay and said "it's okay." Of course Brown bears some responsibility. But the agent is getting PAID to offer services and clearly failed, and of the two guys, the agent is the one with the expertise to fully understand the contract implications.

If they communicated frequently, there's probably plenty of communication (especially e-mail and text) which can easily be used as discovery. That works both ways. If the agent actually did bring it up as a bad idea, then he's covered.

BINGO !!!

BINGO !

When the agent is set to receive $60k dollars for said workouts, he should be emailing, texting and checking with his client on a daily basis to ensure that said client is participating.

If the agent in question can prove that he did so, the player is at fault. If he can't, the agent is at fault.

You don't seem to understand the fact that the agent is employed by the player, not the other way around.

The agent should be owed that money either way since he negotiated into the contract.
Yeah I can definitely understand sending out reminders. But that doesn't mean that a person should have to do that.

The agent doesn't get paid until the player gets paid, so yes, the agent should be following up with the client.

And yes, the agent shroud be reminding his client everyday. Don't you understand that's the agent responsibility?

Agents don't earn the money until its paid
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Then as an employer wouldn't you think it would be wise to know as much about the contract parameters as your employee? Especially since it could cost you 2 million dollars if you don't. Part of being an employer is being responsible for the actions of your employees.

You clearly do not understand the world of "talent", nor are you willing to step outside your bubble to do so.

Both have incentive to make $$ thus both are responsible. And let's see IF the agent was really negligent here. Knowing this is how he get's paid, I bet the farm he shows he covered his ass and this is Brown trying to save face:thumb:

The players responsibility is to play and to comply with his contract as directed by his agent. The agents responsibility is to be aware of all contractual terms, communicate them to his client, and ensure his client complies. The agents job isn't done once the contract is signed, it it's just beginning.

"Talent" hires an agent to be responsible for all contractual obligations. If there are certain clauses in contracts, the agent must make his client aware of such clauses to ensure that terms of the contract are met.

The agent should have checked in on day one with said client. He should have scheduled daily email and text reminders for said client. He should have called said client weekly.

Failing to do not only cost his client $2 million dollars, it cost the agent $60k, his job and his reputation.

Oh I get your point about the agent's job to wipe this guy's ass as well especially with this younger generation that doesn't know a thing about real work ethic, responsibility,commitment, discipline, accountability, etc...... BUT LET's see first if the agent was really negligent. And IF he wasn't negligent then it's just another lesson in, no matter how much you talk,yell,or scream the obvious you can't change or control another adult human being's actions or lack thereof.

Like I said, let's see first IF the agent was negligent.:hmmm:

You're a ****ing moron.

Hiring a agent WAS his responsibility. He didn't negotiate the contract himself, then skip out the workouts. He hired an expert to negotiate terms in good faith, for HIMSELF, and was to be made aware of said terms, daily, if necessary.

This has absolutely nothing to do with your bullshit, soapbox post.

Yes. If the agent was diligent in informing the player of the situation and the player choose not to comply then fault lies with the player.

I wouldn't think an agent is suppose to be a babysitter on a contract that player signed. That player should be aware of every aspect of that contract before he signs his name.

How many athletes does each agent represent?
I don't know how all the exacts of these contracts work. But I see a huge difference in a bonus for simply showing up and an performance bonus. The agent should be entitled to the money because the player just had to be there it wasn't for performance. But I don't think the agent should of had to tell the player where he was suppose to be get 2 million dollars. The player should have had that marked on his calendar.

Define "talent".

If necessary, absolutely. Unless said agent doesn't care about $60k or his rep.

How many players an agent reps is irrelevant. All that matters is that the agent performs his job.

Do yo inderstand how easy it is to set up an email and/or text reminder? It takes less than one minute. That's not worth $60k?

You and Brown were separated at birth weren't you ? :shrug:

What don't you get about not being able to wipe Dane's ass if Dane won't let you, because Dane wants to continue being a child in an adult body ?


Your above reply surprises no one except those children in adult bodies who continue to choose to be children on this board and there are many.:rolleyes:

Yeah it is damn easy to set up a reminder. But that is work that the office staff would preform not the work that the agent would preform.
Just the same I would imagine that shortly after the contract is signed and approved by the NFL the agents office personnel would also have some paperwork for the player that would outline the contract with specific important dates as well. That paperwork should have to be signed for responsibility purposes by the player and agent.

I would think the number of athletes that you represent would make a big difference in the amount of time an agent has to spend with each client. If an agent has 25 athletes to represent he might have a little more time to spend with each of his clients on an individual basis. Whereas if he has 50 or more the agent doesn't have that time for each of his clients.

You're correct. It easy to set up a email and/or text reminder. Why wasn't this player smart enough to do that? Oh, I forgot, he has "talent" so he is allowed to be a moron.

If the agent informed the player of the clause then he shouldn't have to babysit the player. This agent probably has many clients, do you really think all he does all day is call, text, email over and over all the details of every contract to every client? I think once the contract is negotiated, the client is fully aware of what is in the contract and it's then up to the client to, yah know, fulfill the obligations of the contract so as to get, yah know, paid.

If you believe Brown, he was talking regularly to his agent and his agent knew he was going to workout on his own.

As an agent, don't you think he should... y'know... understand the terms of the contract he negotiated? If he told Brown that was okay, don't you think he should check back to the contract to make sure he was right? And as an agent, do you really think the agent would be passive about telling Brown he needs to go to camp? The agent knew he was missing out on a hefty commission by Brown missing camp -- that in itself indicates to me that his agent was completely clueless and didn't realize that this camp was mandatory. An agent should know that... period.

I think the agent did tell Brown and also gave Brown a copy of the contract. I also think it's very possible that both the agent and Brown completely forgot about the clause. Ultimately, it's on Brown, not the agent IMHO.

With as much marijuana as these players smoke, I very much think that it was forgotten by Brown. I also think the agent probably didn't think about it either as he probably has many other clients to attend to. If this agent did forget to hold Brown's hand and make sure he fulfilled all the clauses then the agent lost money too.

Ari Gold never would have let this shit happen.

You are a moron

Exactly.

If I'm paying someone 3% of my salary, they'd better remind me of bonuses, my wife's birthday, and when my produce is expired!


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That should just about end the thread right there... Rep for you my good man!

Brown’s workout clause was a throw-in for his $2 million escalator
Posted by Mike Florio on August 5, 2013, 2:43 PM EDT


49ers coach Jim Harbaugh has said that he hopes the matter of cornerback Tarell Brown’s squandered $2 million escalator eventually will resolve itself in a way that allows everyone to laugh about it.

For now, the Niners may be laughing nervously. (Or possibly in sinister fashion, with a “mwu” preceding the “hahaha.”)

Lost in the notion that Brown lost $2 million by not showing up for offseason workouts is the reality that, per a league source, Brown triggered the $2 million escalator by participating in more than 80 percent of the snaps in 2011 and 2012.

The 49ers had no comment regarding the details of Brown’s contract.

At the time Brown signed his current deal, no one expected Brown to become a starter. He did, and he thrived. And Brown unlocked the $2 million by participating in well over 80 percent of the snaps each year.

So the clause didn’t expressly hinge $2 million on Brown showing up for 2013 offseason workouts. The key factors were playing time in 2011 and 2012. Brown met them.

Granted, he didn’t show up for offseason workouts, which allowed the Niners to taketh away that which they had given. Eth.

Against that background, what can the Niners do to allow everyone to laugh it all off later? It’s hard to believe the 49ers didn’t know $2 million depended on Brown showing up for the offseason. Some believe that the Niners specifically sat back and kept quiet, so that the $2 million escalator they didn’t expect to owe at the time the contract was signed would go away.

While Brown has legal rights against his former agent, Brian Overstreet, the NFLPA-required malpractice insurance policy provides only $1 million. And it’s unlikely that Overstreet’s insurance carrier will simply hand the money over without litigation, which means that Brown will have to spend a chunk of the money on lawyers.

Overstreet may have other insurance or assets that could be targeted for his arguable negligence. But Overstreet may not concede that he made a mistake. Overstreet could say he told Brown that he needed to show up for the offseason program in order to get the money.

While Brown eventually could get the $2 million from Overstreet or his insurers, it’ll take stress, efforts, expenses, and most of all time.

That’s why the cleanest and easiest way to get Brown in a laughing mood will be for the 49ers to give him the money that primarily hinged on what Brown accomplished — being on the field for more than 80 percent of the snaps over the last two years.

Harbaugh already has said that a ‘”starting, top-end player” shouldn’t be earning the minimum (actually, Brown will earn $925,000). The challenge becomes harmonizing Harbaugh’s public statements with the organization’s behind-the-scenes actions.

It’s easy to say Brown should have known about the workout clause, and that he should have shown up. But it’s just as easy to say the 49ers should have known, too, and that they should have in all fairness reminded Brown that he had two million reasons to participate in voluntary workouts.

If they actually knew about the workout clause in the escalator, they definitely should have told him.

And now they definitely should pay him.

Wow, one has to wonder if showing up to those scheduled activities might have avoided all of this?

I would be pissed too if I was him.

Yes I do agree the ultimate responsibility is Mr Brown's BUT think about this:

You hire a real estate agent, and are buying or selling a large piece of property and the contract is complicated and there is lots of paperwork.

The deal falls apart and you end up on the hook for a sum of money you didn't expect to (for example your earnest money deposit as a buyer plus any inspections you have done)....

You didn't expect this, and if you had known maybe you wouldve handled the transaction differently....

Yes, you should read your own contract and understand it, but part of an agent's job is to help you in this regard.

It is both of their faults. The burden will lie on Mr. brown, but being fired and having everyone know you did not do your best for your client will be the burden for the agent...surely he will suffer as a result as well.

He should hold out until he gets his 2Mill They just lost Culliver, so **** them

Agreed with the article that if the 49ers can pay them, and hey need to do this. Saving 2 million isn't worth the black eye they get if they don't. The 49ers should have told him he had 2 million on the line. Legally obligated? No. IIt's just good business practice.