Damn it!

Pulled all the right moves last night. Unfortunately the city was asleep so they'll continue thinking the manager is why we won't win 90+ and not the fact our team has like 1 home run in the past 10 games

I got ridiculed for last week for sticking up for Ned Yost in one of the game threads.

That's why I don't post in them much anymore. Some of the Royals fans on this board don't know shit and it's annoying to have to deal with them.

Ignore lists are great.

Yes, Wade Davis was the right move in a tie game with the bases loaded and one out. Give me a ****ing break. He hung a couple that could've screwed us.

The Mariners bailed Ned out by being more incompetent offensively than we are.

The feeling is mutual.

Eh. He was good. No reason to try to take that away from him.
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Interesting. First winning season in 10 years. You have to go back another 10 years before that. You guys are talking like they should have won the whole thing. They had 2 starting pitchers with an ERA sub 4.0. Pretty good pen which overall makes the club first in runs against in the AL, but the teams ahead in your division are 2 and 3. They had to move 36 year old Bruce Chen from the pen despite that he had an ERA around 2.0 at the time. Your winningest pitcher is giving up more than 10 hits/9 inn.

One player with 20 home runs who also has 135 Ks. You have one starter with a SLG over .450 and that is just barely. 11th in the AL in runs. 2B was a disaster zone until you traded for one in mid August.

Sounds like he was making chicken salad with chicken shit.

So when we win, the other team bails Ned out. When we lose, it was Ned.

No, not at all. As you see, I specifically highlighted why I think the way I do.

I don't think in pure generalities, like your post would imply. Maybe you do:shrug:.

He was good enough to win. But the call was not the right one in the moment. I would've liked to see Holland.

And I don't feel this way solely because of last night.

I didn't see that, you getting ridiculed, but sticking up for him is worthy of it most of the time.

Yost is a below average MLB manager. Now, that only costs 1-2 games on the whole over the course of a season, but compare him to someone like Francona, and you're talking about a 5 game swing.

Much like batting Getzy lead off should be a fireable offense; this thread should be a bannable offense.

ROFL

Ned Yost is a good fit for this team and this market.

Brainiac is right that he deserves some credit for the Royals having good team chemistry and a good clubhouse.

Another factor that deserves consideration is how Kansas City has a lot of fans who like to think they are much smarter than the dumbazz manager.

Ned Yost has a talent for pulling enough genuine headscratchers to keep those folks proud.

Players have to play when they have a chance to make the difference.

Last night, Hochevar gives up back-to-back dingers to blow a two-run lead and Wade Davis has a great relief appearance to stop a walk-off victory for the Mariners.

The thing about baseball is you can make the consensus move and it is up to the player to make it work.

Louis Coleman might give up walks, hits and runs the next time he pitches in a crucial situation no matter how great the second-guessers think he is.

I actually agree with this. This is Yost's strength.

Every fanbase in America second-guesses its baseball managers. I think Royals fans are actually more forgiving of managers than in other places. Low expectations.

Was there consternation in this thread about going to Hochevar when he did?

Yost's strengths (team unity, chemistry, development of young players) have started being outweighed by his weaknesses (poor tactical decisions, inconsistent tactical decisions, extreme loyalty to struggling players) this year.

Yost's yo-yo tendencies for strategies are my biggest problem with him. He's like the blackjack player who keeps changing his decision points on hit/stay. If you don't have a consistent approach, you run the risk of having the odds screw you more often than they should.

This team is going to go right down to the wire and probably fall a few Ws short. Ned Yost isn't atrocious or even the worst manager in baseball. But he is slightly below average (-1 or -2 a year). Swap him out with a good manager (Francona, Maddon, etc.) and you're looking at +3 or +4 instead. That's a big swing, big enough to put KC in the driver's seat for the WC.

Completely unprovable.

But he made one move correctly and he should get an extension!

Where was Ned's Clubhouse chemistry wizardry in May?

This

If Carlos Pena would have swung at one lousy pitch and fouled it off before striking out nobody in Kansas City would even think of replacing Ned Yost.

Ned's wikipedia page says he tried a career as a taxidermist after his playing career. I think that explains pinch-hitting Carlos Pena when he was scared to death and his appendix was expanding.

I can't see how Ned won't get a new contract. IIRC, he got a 2 year deal before the 2012 season. I think he gets a 3 year deal, IMO they should pay him a little more than he deserves per year, in exchange for having team options after each year, but I doubt his agent would go for that.

I think getting new hitting coaches, Brett and Grifol, helped a lot.

Something about Dyson getting hurt on that unnecessary leap in Anaheim and the team going to that Oakland Coliseum really seemed to have a bad effect on the team, but I guess that those hitting coaches really did a terrible job also.

Maybe the average/casual fan would feel that way. His issues are pretty far-reaching.

Carlos Pena is just one of the latest examples of flat-out awful decision-making by Yost.

Continually banishing Coleman to the minors while keeping guys like Gutierrez up is another.

Using Crow and Herrera in the second half MORE than Coleman

Sticking so doggedly with Chris Getz

Using Chris Getz in the leadoff spot

Using Tim Collins like he's a lefty specialist when his career sample shows he is far more effective against RHP pitching (this particularly murdered KC against Cleveland in a few different series)

Resistance to new baseball thought (which is why you see things like 2nd inning sacrifice bunts, using bad hitters in the 2 spot because they're fast and can bunt, etc).

He's not awful, but he's not good or even average overally, really. Ultimately, it's an inexact science, measuring managers performances. To use WAR terminology, Yost would be slightly below replacement-level, in my opinion.

That's still better than anything KC has had in ages, but not good enough to get it done unless he's given a MUCH better team to manage.

Keeping them together through that stretch and turning the momentum around is his wizardry.


Hire Charlie Manuel

Let's not forgot his masterful move to fire Seitzer to hit more home runs.

That was obviously a major blunder. But I think they're probably better off now with Pedro Grifol than they would be with Seitzer. Seitzer did a great job with Alcides Escobar, but the big guns (Hosmer and Moose) obviously weren't getting the right kind of help from him.

Yost cost the Royals way, way more than 2 games this season.

Yost prolongs the existence of chicken shit when there are better options available.

If Francouer is chicken shit, replace him with Lough sooner. No one could possibly be worse.

If Getz/Johnson are chicken shit, give Giavotella or Falu a chance (or trade for somebody sooner than they traded for Bonafacio). For some reason, Giavotella and Falu get about 6 at-bats per year to prove themselves, and if they do nothing, they go back to the minors. Yet guys like Getz fail for years and years and keep getting playing time.

If Crow/Herrera are chicken shit in clutch situations, LET LOUIS COLEMAN PITCH. WHY THE HELL DOES LOUIS COLEMAN NEVER PITCH?

If Davies is chicken shit, replace him with Duffy/Ventura earlier in the year. This is the single most baffling move of the season to me, and the one that in the long run cost the Royals the most. If it's June or July and you see Davies sitting there with a 5.50 ERA, try someone else. Davies lost way too many games that could have been won with a decent starter, and that was ultimately the biggest failure this season. If Duffy or Ventura joins the rotation in June, I think we're looking at a playoff team here.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Royals&amp;src=hash">#Royals</a> GM Dayton Moore says he wants manager Ned Yost back next year but the two haven&#39;t yet discussed a deal. More soon at kansascity,com.</p>&mdash; Bob Dutton (@Royals_Report) <a href="https://twitter.com/Royals_Report/statuses/383021363713552384">September 26, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Now we need to fire DM before he does something stupid like re-sign Yost.

Nobody can possibly ascertain what Yost "cost" us this year. But we have a good model to estimate what Dos Fatboys (Butler and Moose in case that was not obvious) cost us by dropping their HR total from 49 to 25 this year. 4 full wins.


The math is simple: HR are worth 1.7 runs. 24 more HR would've equaled 41 additional runs. Fangraphs pegs 1 WAR at 9.4 runs this season. Divide the total and you see the Slobs singlehandedly ruined this team and knocked us out of a WC tie.

http://www.camdencrazies.com/2011-ar...ar-primer.html

I highly doubt they fire him. Looks like they will win 85-86 games. Isn't that our best record in 20+ years?

Yeah, let's keep the guy. He's a huge reason why we will miss out on the playoffs this year...but hey we finally will finish above .500!!!

SMH

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/09/25...e-says-he.html

Royals G.M. Dayton Moore says he wants to retain manager Ned Yost

BY BOB DUTTON
The Kansas City Star

SEATTLE — While negotiations remain on the horizon, Royals general manager Dayton Moore left no doubt Wednesday afternoon that he wants to retain Ned Yost as the club’s manager.


While negotiations remain on the horizon, Royals general manager Dayton Moore left no doubt Wednesday afternoon that he wants to retain Ned Yost (right) as the club’s manager. “… Ned has done a terrific job, and I definitely want him back,” Moore said.

“We’ll sit down and talk about it.”

“Ned and I made an advance decision a month or so ago that anything we would discuss would be after the season, and we’ve held to that,” Moore said.

“But Ned has done a terrific job, and I definitely want him back. We’ll sit down and talk about it. Contractually, Ned’s up, and we’re going to work together” to negotiate a new deal.

“It goes without saying that I want him back.”

Moore’s comments came before Wednesday’s game against the Seattle Mariners at Safeco Field. The Royals entered that game trailing Cleveland by four games, with five games left, in the race for the final American League wild-card spot.

Negotiations between Moore and Yost could commence this weekend in Chicago if and when the Royals are mathematically eliminated from postseason contention.

“Right now, mathematically, we’re still in this,” Moore said. “A lot of things have to fall our way, but we’ll discuss it at the appropriate time. You certainly want to have it settled as soon as you can.”

Yost confirmed on several occasions that he wants to return, but industry sources indicate he might have opportunities to manage elsewhere if he fails to reach a new agreement with the Royals.

Moore’s support is a crucial factor. Royals owner David Glass said last week the decision on whether to retain Yost rests solely with Moore.

“Whatever happens with Ned is up to Dayton,” Glass said. “That’s his call. I like them both. I think both of them are doing a really good job.”

Moore’s contract runs through 2014, which could be a hurdle in talks to retain Yost. It’s rare that a manager’s contract extends for a longer period than the general manager.

Glass indicated an extension for Moore is possible.

“We’re all in this together,” Glass said. “Dayton is a part of the family. I think he’s done a really good job. I think Ned has done a good job.”

Yost, 59, served as Milwaukee’s manager from 2002-08 and replaced Trey Hillman as Royals manager on May 13, 2010 with a contract that initially lasted only through that season.

A two-year extension, announced July 31, 2010, included a club option for 2013. The Royals exercised that option on Feb. 14, 2012.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

:spock:ROFL:spock:ROFL:spock:ROFL:huh::deevee::huh::deevee::eek::grr::eek::grr::cuss::banghead::cuss ::fire::lame::sulk::bolt:

Amazing that "true fans" exist in the Royals world as well. Yost is horrible. I'm not really aware of a serious baseball analyst that thinks Yost is even a league average manager. But keep believing he has the magic or something for this year's achievement, which was obviously about starting pitching, and all-world bullpen and an all-world defense.

Any turn-around after May was orchestrated by a combination of a few players starting to do the right things offensively and the influence that Brett had with several of those players. Even Yost himself said Brett came and got their heads right about winning and having a short memory. Really Ned? I thought that was YOUR job. Ned is just a nice encourager...but is lost for answers when a team needs jerked out of a funk - he'll always be that way. He doesn't have "it".

If a team is humming and doesn't hit a snag, he's your next Jim Frey. If a team slumps, you want Dick Howser. Ned Yost is far more a Jim Frey than a Dick Howser. Hell, he's not even a Hal McRae or Buddy Bell. He's better than Trey Hillman and Tony Muser and thats' about it.

You obviously have repressed the Buddy Bell years. When your manager says "never say it can't get worse", you know you hired the wrong guy.

I don't think they'll fire him either. They are gelling really. But they need a few guys that can swing.

Buddy Bell was terrible. Ned Yost is worse because he's been incompetent with a good a decent team. We have no idea how bad or close to average bell might have been with a decent team.

Clinkscale said the other day he would rather have Buddy Bell.

Then again Clinkscale always hates everything so who knows if that was a real opinion.

Are there better managers than Yost? Of course. Would they come to KC...? errrr, not so sure

After watching the Royals feeble effort the last two nights, I'd just like to apologize to everyone for this stupid ****ing thread.

Zero runs two nights in a row. Team is officially done and has officially quit. Wouldn't be shocked if the ChiSux sweep us.

Apology accepted. Now...for those living in KC, start sitting at the K with signs saying "Let Yost Go!" Do your part, KC residents. The rest of us are counting on you to make an uproar over DM's latest comments. Ridiculous that we're this close and we would hire that blockhead back to influence this team for another year.

Who are they? Honest question, I'd be curious to know who's better than Yost. I'm not saying there aren't any but I'm just asking for proof of it.

Girardi is a free agent manager this off-season. Charlie Manuel (old, I know). Sciossia or his GM will be gone - not convinced of which at this point. I'm intrigued by Pedro Grifol and his reputation as a rising star in the baseball world, but not wanting to try a new guy.

For those that would say Girardi isn't coming here, you're just working off of old-news. The Royals aren't a laughing stock. Smart manager candidates that have watched Ned piss away opportunities and mishandle the team during struggling times are just arrogant enough to show they can do what others haven't done in KC. The young talent is extremely untapped and most guys recognize that and probably think they can fix it.

Show any of these guys the $$$ and they'll come. Now will Glass hand out Andy Reid type contracts? I actually doubt that...but he's surprised me before.

Uh, shall we sit in the stands with no home games left? :evil:

I was thinking parking lot near the business office entrance...but sure...break into the stadium. I'm sure that will get someone's attention.

Charlie Manuel is better than Yost - by a mile - and Buster Olney is certain he would go to KC if the Royals came calling. (Manuel is similar to Yost in some regards - good motivator who excels with young players - but is much better tactically).

There's a slim chance Joe Girardi will be available, and if he is, he should be target No. 1.

Bud Black in San Diego is another guy who could be out and would be a great candidate.

And... this is outside the box, and I'm not sure a rookie skipper is the best guy to tab for this team next year, but I am intrigued by Jason Giambi.

Guy could be a real star manager. As a star player, he would command respect in the clubhouse (not quite on George Brett level, but similar). And he is not likely to be tied to the extreme old school (bunts/speed guys who can't hit or get on base in the 2 spot, over-reliance on shitty grinders like Getz, etc) style of managing.

I also think Pedro Grifol would get a look. Everything about him screams future star, the team already respects and trusts him, etc.

I suppose it would be fitting for another long-term Philadelphia pariah to come to KC to lead the Royals to glory.

I just don't see GMDM letting Yost go. Yeah, I know about posturing, and I know that there's a chance that Yost might want more years than GMDM is willing to give him, but I'd be shocked if he's not retained.

Send Ned packing. Don't worry GMDM, he will catch on in Seattle. I'm sure he'll be a hit with their Japanese following.

With that said, it's nice to know that this would probably be the most attractive job for managers on the market.

-Bud Black has Royals history, and has done good things with an atrocious roster.

-I'm fine with Giambi, but would probably wonder all year if he shouldn't just grab a bat and hit sometimes.

-I'd also be fine with Manuel (Charlie).

-I would imagine that if Girardi is cut lose, he'll take a straight line to Chicago to run the Cubs.

-Wally Backman would be entertaining!

The impression I've seen is that Manuel is low-hanging fruit. He's out there, he's available, he wants to be in KC and would take the job if offered.

I think they CAN do better. Depends on who is actually out there.

How much of this is Yost? I think DM deserves a lot of criticism for not making these changes.

Well, if Girardi is on the market, that means the Yankees job is open. I imagine that will be the most attractive job out there.

But your point remains... KC job is much more attractive than it has been at any time since Howser left.

Yankees are firmly committed to getting under the luxury tax number. They won't retain both Granderson AND Cano. They can't be serious FA shoppers due to this commitment. Unless someone just wants to be in the limelights of New York, it's not an attractive "winning baseball" job for the next few years. Yankees are going to have a rough 2-3 years, I'm guessing. That makes me happy.

Doesn't a lot of this hang on DM's contract? He's signed through 2014.

Will DM be allowed to sign a manager to a multi-year deal if he himself doesn't have one? Will a "name" manager sign here if he doesn't know DM's future past 2014? And I can't believe ANYONE would sign for just one year. Would even Ned sign a one-year contract, or would he decline and go on the open market?


So Glass has to extend DM first, right? And frankly, I don't want THAT. I think DM should first show how he handles this offseason and how things go to start off 2014. It would be a mistake to call 2013 "mission accomplished" and reward DM when he's got to prove 1) it's not a fluke, and 2) he knows how to take the team to the next level. You extend DM 3-5 years now and then watch the team regress to 79 wins in 2014 and then Shields walks, well what exactly have you achieved? Five more losing seasons and looking back at 2013 and saying "Wow, remember how fun that was, kinda sorta almost making a one-game wild-card playoff?"

GOod points all.

We're likely looking at Ned next year, or POSSIBLY Pedro Grifol.

I vote for Pedro.

More Ned? Ice pick please.

My worst fear is Glass says "We're on the right track" and extends Moore, who extends Ned, and then tells Moore he can add one player this offseason. Moore says no problem, I fully expect all the good of 2013 to continue and all the bad to improve, and Nelson Cruz will put us over the top.

And then its 79-83 and we're stuck with these ****sticks for another 3 years.

And yes, that is me being an irascible pessimist.

DM will get extended 2 years minimum within the next few weeks or after the WS. Bank it.

Don't bother, people are obsessed with Ned Yost. It's a weird obsession they have. Everyone with a brain knows that Dayton has a huge impact on who plays and when they play. And if he didn't want Ned playing Frenchy or Getz he'd have DFA'd them. The GM always has the final say on who plays because he can just move guys unilaterally.

Completely untrue. DM can overrule Ned of course. But DM is known as a "collaborative" GM. If his coach wants something, he usually gets what his coach wants. If his coach wants a guy a guy from AAA, DM will rarely refuse him. If Ned wants to bat Getz 2nd, DM lets him. He's as hand-off as you can get for a GM during the season.

Now...I WISH he were more proactive, but he's not. DM should have put a stop to Ned's fascination with certain players long before he did. If DM has a flaw, it isn't hat he's pulling the strings, but that he's too loyal (everyone knows this in baseball), too compliant and won't do his job and make the hard decisions. If he should be fired for anything, it's for that.

Unless DM believes the same things Ned does (Getz, Frenchy, bunting a man to 3B in the first inning, etc.). Maybe it's not that DM "let's him," it's that DM agrees with him.

None of what you say is proveable.

None of what YOU say is provable (see what I did there?). Stop with discussion-stopping cliches.

This is absolutely possible. What is NOT true is that DM is some sort of puppet master and Yost is the being held back by his bungling GM. History is simply not on the side of such an argument. Ned was fired with the Brewers in FIRST F-ing place. Let that sink in.

Well, I was asking for proof Yost is a bad manager. I still haven't received it. I know for a fact Dayton has full control over player personnel because every GM in the league has it. You're throwing out baseless theories you can't prove.

That would suck.

1) If all they add is Nelson Cruz, the offense is better (unless he sucks without roids). And the defense is hurt substantially.

If they're going to sacrifice RF defense for offense, I'd much rather see them go Carlos Beltran over Cruz. Defensive hit is about the same (if Beltran remains as below-average as he has been this year), but Beltran is a much more consistent and proven offensive player.

2) I assume that would mean they stick with internal pitching options. So basically, Shields, Guthrie and the kids. Scary way to go into a season.

DM has been forthright in all his interviews about how he handles personnel matters in a collaborative manner, regardless of what his job's "powers" are. If you don't want to take his words at face value, then you are the one stepping into the world of speculation.

Lol. What's he supposed to say: "Well, Ned has opinions but of course I hold all the power so his ideas really don't count for shit in the end." Yeah.

Prove he's being disingenuous.

Not quite sure it is the manager's fault that the players do not get enough hits to score any runs.

So would I.

With my car.

****ing Juggalos...

Some of it is Moore's fault, yes. But Yost, even when better players are on the roster (i.e. Louis Coleman), refuses to play them.

Whether DM is a good, average or terrible as a GM is irrelevant to the OP. Yost was fired while his team was in FIRST PLACE. That happens to ZERO managers unless they are blatantly incompetent. This has all happened before and it will happen again...

Does anyone doubt this team would be better off and entrenched with a playoff spot with Francona as the manager?

great point

You're late to the party. I've already apologized for starting this thread.

I was unduly influenced by the temporary euphoria of Justin Maxwell's walkoff grand slam on Sunday. I've since come to my senses. Ned Yost is a buffoon.