I'm sure this board will celebrate it because we need a DL and it's safe so the guy is more NFL ready. And then bitch about it because it was too safe and we should have taken a chance on a high positional value player. And then full circle.

you just love to have a shitty franchise to root for dont ya?

And people still defend him.

Ford sucks and there's a reason why, despite having the first step required to be a dominant pass rusher in college, he was regarded as a late day 2 pick before the Senior Bowl happened. He feasted on blockers in the Senior Bowl because the count was very easy to predict so he always got a good jump.

We got ****en hoodwinked.

I stand corrected.

It would have been a sack if not for the penalty.

Point is this type of thing happens an insane number of snaps per game. Dark-Sith-Clathon-Rex could spend all day creating gifs showing two lineman just getting abused on MOST plays.

Fisher has improved. He definitely has. And that's even more impressive considering his recent shoulder surgery. But it seems greater that what it truly is because there's 3 other guys taking turns failing horribly worse on every play...

And if he turns out to be like Wilkerson, Jordan, or Watt as a 5-tech?

There are two players who might end up being special at the position:

Shawn Oakman and Leonard Williams.

Williams is the power guy with some explosiveness but the ability to overwhelm an offensive lineman with pure strength. Much more traditional in build at 6'5" and 300 pounds.

Oakman isn't as solidly built but is a lot longer and possesses a powerful punch. He's super explosive, especially for a 6'9" and 280+ pound guy. He looks like a bigger Aldon Smith but is just as athletic.

I actually would not mind either of those two, it'll give us the dominant 5-tech that is needed to have a dominant 3-4 defense.

I don't think the Vikings know what they're doing there. I think they feel obligated to not rush the rookie onto the field. After today's showing from Cassel, though, there's no reason not to get Bridgewater out there and see what they can develop. By all accounts, Teddy had a better camp and preseason.

It was not Fisher v, Joekel for me.

It was Fisher/Joekel v. Sheldon Richardson.

I didn't want either of those LTs.

As for Albert, he was a project LT, but an almost certain top LG if that failed.

You don't have that guarantee with Fisher.

He was a project no matter what.

I wanted Richardson too. I have bagged on the pick.

But it was a consensus on CP that if we were choosing between two left tackles, it was Fisher.

That is until a year later when CP moved the uprights and said they were stupid to pick the high ceiling guy over the guy who was NFL ready right away.

I have been very consistent that I will take a game-changer with higher risk / higher reward over a conservative pick in the first round. Gladly. I don't care how NFL ready they are right away because I think this team has spent WAY too many picks the past 10 years drafting for need when they should be drafting for high positional value playmakers. Pioli's entire draft history was super conservative and full of reaches. I wouldn't normally take a 5-technique run stuffer but if he has the ability to influence both the run and pass and be a difference maker, I don't care. You take him. Just as I would have taken Richardson last year.

I gave Dorsey credit for not taking Joekel.

I said Fisher was the better pick of those 2 then, and I'm not backing away from that.

But that doesn't diminish the fact that I hated the pick.

Going by how Seattle built a team the Chiefs are at least 6 years away from that. 5 if ever guy picked in may turns out to be all pros

He looks like a rookie that isn't quite sure what he's supposed to do yet.

Just like about 85% of rookies do.

I saw your "math" on that the other night.

Don't agree with it, but it was impressive in terms of time spent. But in actuality, I think it's probably what this front office is looking at/thinking or atleast what they should be thinking.

The Smith deal should be about getting you into that window while you can build up your roster, all the while having an eye towards a true young franchise QB to place in there. As much as we all love Hali, Charles, Bowe etc, those players times were wasted once the Pioli experiment failed.

I hated the pick too. Always will.

But that's not what we are arguing. It's arguing whether if you are comparing two players at one position, one with a high ceiling and one with average ceiling but more NFL ready, who would you take? CP was shouting about not taking Terence Cody and then ripping on the Dontari Poe pick. Especially when you get out of the top 10, you often have to decide between low upside / safe picks vs. risky / high upside picks.

More importantly, it's a dialogue about how ridiculously over reactionary people were to Fisher's play. As if he would never improve. That's where I get feisty. I never even called him a good player. I have said many times I think he could play like a top 20 pick.

Casshole sucked all day today and Teddy still couldn't get on the field.

He not only refuses to spell Poe enough to keep him ready, he doesnt have the imagination to use what he has in reserve.

Remember the preseason articles where he talked about getting Hali, Houston, JMJ, Josh Martin and Ford on the field at the same time... how he was going to get creative and really unleash these guys?

How Hali and DJ talked about the same shit?

Turns out Sutton is scared to do it, scared to get beaten for 30 yards instead of 40... this guys gotta go, he doesnt have the creativity thats been sold to everyone, he cant find ways to maximize the talents of his best players.

But people still want him because, "QB1!"

It has to depend on much you have to work with when making that decision.

Dee Ford is a huge project, with very limited actual productivity.

He is simply not the best player that was available at that pick.

Why can't people understand that Ford is strictly a pass rushing OLB and currently there are 2....i repeat "TWO" Pro Bowl OLB's in front on him in Hali and Houston?

As long as those 2 probowlers are healthy and fresh, Ford is rarely going to see the field at all this season.

Ford was drafted to replace Hali. Houston will be resigned to a new deal. I never really agreed w/ the pick as it wasn't one of need, but it was indeed a pick for the future. Hali is still playing w/ a contract w/ KC. It's not time to replace Hali yet. Therefore Ford sits and watches. You can argue the pick itself...as there are OL DB and WR needs on this team, which is why I wasn't a fan of the pick at the time. But I doubt lack of playing time is due to his "ability". We're just not gonna see him a lot til next season because he's sitting behind a couple of badasses.

Yeah... Sutton sent a double safety blitz last week.

The guy ain't scared to do shit.

I'm not going to lie, I fully expected this guy to be the next Hali, Houston, Jared Allen, Derrick Thomas and he's a no show. So far, very dispointed.

Derrick Thomas reincarnated... just wait till next year guys.

Why did you expect that?...

Yeah, Ford is clearly going to finish this season with 10 sacks and get another 20 next year.

I don't remember Thomas ever being a project.

Ride that bullshit high horse if you must, he isnt getting it done.

5 pro bowlers were shredded by Tennessee last week and 4 were beaten tonight... ONE guy got a sack up the gut, the two all stars at OLB got zilch, no else got shit for pressure either.

This defense has too much talent to be so bad, **** you.

It took vaseline and crooked accounting to get a QB older than 34 a Super Bowl win.

Alex Smith won't win a Super Bowl for you. End of story.

The FO either overpaid for him in terms of the draft and salary to try and be a perpetual 8-8 give-or-take team (highest probability) or to hold the fort to draft a QB of the future that can win a SB a la Russell Wilson in 2019 (least probability).

Point is we can already see Dorsey and Reid failed miserably.

Attaochu can suck these nuts.

It'll be a success if Ford gets over 3 sacks this year.

He doesn't have 3 snaps in 2 games so far...

Same reason I expect to be fisted by a midget, wishful thinking, I know. :shrug:

Yep.

Houston got 5 his rookie year. Ford is miles and miles away from being Houston good.

He'll eventually get on the field when the Chiefs' get their doors blown off and he'll collect some garbage time sacks.

Actually he did get 3 during the Titans game. No idea on today though. They had him in on a formation with 2 other OLB's and Poe.

I think we all have enough experience seeing Cassel inexplicably stay on the field to know that it's extremely possible that the Vikings are just clueless.

It's a near certainty...

Houston didn't have any sacks until his 13th game of his rookie year. He got a lot of snaps early because the Chiefs got blown out of a lot of games. Houston arguably graded around the same level as Ford in terms of NFL readiness but was drafted lower due to character issues.

These players take time to develop. He played 4-3 DE and now he's playing 3-4 OLB.

Ford is one dimensional. At best he should have been a late second rounder for a team already in contention.

Instead, Dorsey reaches for him in order to replace half of the current OLB'ing duo.

Completely FOS.

Houston was used primarily in pass coverage because he was so good at it...

I think Sutton could find a way to get three pass rushers on the field when situationally appropriate. Maybe I'm just ****ing crazy, though.

Houston as a pseudo-ILB with Hali on the strongside and Ford at weak. Bailey - Poe - Walker on the line backed up by Cooper, S. Smith, Abdullah, and your choice of two slapdicks at CB/FS -one slapdick if Berry is healthy.


But if this is obvious to me then it's obviously very flawed and not possible to run without getting ****ed by an offense.

Houston was supposed to be a liability in pass coverage. He was not excellent in the NFL by any stretch right off the bat and had limited snaps. I use the Houston example because he also came from a competitive college program and should have been "NFL ready" and there were reasons that dropped his draft grade lower than it should have fallen.

Even though Houston was graded lower, I liked his potential early on more than I like Ford's now. But the point is it took him some time to find his stride or get meaningful snaps.

Not that anybody gives two shits, but I endorsed the Chiefs to draft Justin Houston with our first rounder in 2011. I had Dee Ford eventually graded out as a high 2nd rounder this year.

As for Dee Ford, I believe he just needs time to marinate before we can effectively judge his play. Defensive lineman (including OLBs in the 3-4) need three years before you can accurately judge them.

That's the common sense approach. I don't understand the obsession with "he has to contribute immediately" especially in a year that should be a rebuild year. Or the obsession with CP suddenly judging rookie ceilings by how they play in the first few rookies games. I don't know when or why this started happening