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Go to sleep in one city, wake up in the next. Would make for a great retirement. |
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Someone got "all up in there" on the motors and gear boxes. Guess I assumed batteries would've been distributed across entire frame.
https://youtu.be/fMctLIU1Eus |
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I'd pay money for a ride in that thing on a test track.
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Anybody have a Tesla Model S? I'm renting one when I'm going to Florida in a couple of weeks. Should be a blast.
Always wanted to buy one, but I'm a cheapass and can't see using that amount of funds on a depreciating asset. Plus the insurance has got to be outrageous. Was curious what the insurance runs on a used Model S with 40k miles or so? |
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Tesla is going out of business. They've already announced it - I didn't read the whole thread - but it's all over the web.
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They are just currently not profitable and struggling to produce as many Model 3's as they hoped. They'll eventually produce enough, and they have more than enough demand to become profitable eventually and as more EV infrastructure and superchargers become available and seen by the public. Every day EV cars will become more and more acceptable, and sought after. Less Billy Bobs who want to hear their engine go vroom vroom and the smell of gas, and more nerds who care about the environment and innovative tech. |
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I finally broke down and bought a little Tesla stock solely due to Wal-Mart placing pre-orders on the semi. Don't tell me now that they're going out of business.
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Now, we just need to get that tech licensed to some companies that actually know how to build a production vehicle, get the cost down to a number that working consumers can afford, and we'll be all lovely. |
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Truth is, traditional auto makers see profit margins of around 5-7% on moist all offerings outside of trucks. Tesla enjoys 25% margins, and expect to replicate that with the Model 3. "If they really have high margins, then why do they lose money every quarter?". Henry Ford lost bookoo bucks pouring together the supply chain for the Model T, but it had to be built in order to achieve his vision. Tesla is growing at a faster rate than Ford did btw. Fact is, if Tesla wanted to be profitable, they would just need to stop growing. That's be fine, if you're fine with producing 100,000 cars a year, but that doesn't really move the needle does it? |
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Anyways, here's the big news.
Tesla updated site to include projected costs of Semi. Current numbers are: 300 mile version: $150,000 500 mile version: $180,000 Founders series(limited run): $200,000 That's it boys. Game over. This either indicates a huge development in battery tech with great energy density gains, a huge price reduction of batteries through economies of scale due to the volume of batteries needed for Model 3, Semi and Roadster pre orders, or a leasing model for the batteries or entire drive train. In Q3 earnings call, Musk said new battery production line #4 would have more production capacity than lines 1&2(?) combined. Beings he said the older line versions would produce batteries at a higher rate than bullets leaving a machine gun, and you would need a strobe light to see the line in action, I doubt they have simply sped up the production. I personally think they've found a way to mass produce a new tech. Hopefully graphene. OP updated. https://electrek.co/2017/11/22/tesla...lectric-truck/ |
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What the **** was I thinking?!?!?! I have no idea why this car and company are such a personal thing to you, but you might want to come on out of Mr. Rodgers 'land of make believe' and do a little market research. Hop back on the trolley, brah. Hop back on the trolley. :shrug: |
You specifically commented on the Roadster.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3c058eb004.jpg
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The Tesla $150K BEV Semi that nobody will ever see.
Give us $200K up front for a cab only semi and sit back and wait..We will enjoy using your money while you look at pictures. We will b e raising sales prices, lowering payload amounts, and reevaluating cost savings projections. While you wait you will find the Feds, states, and localities are going to raise taxes and increase restrictions on EV semis. Oh and when the batteries have to be redistributed for weight on the front axle.... you can cry about the promised range not becoming reality. Just sounds like snake oil without all the data being developed after the fact... As a well known Trucking author and analyst said: "If I were still in the business and needed replacement or additional trucks for short routes I would go back to the used truck market for at least the next three years. I would wait for the BEV trucks coming out over the next couple of years to prove themselves before taking the plunge, giving time for Tesla and others to build out their recharging networks. The addition of a founder's series truck just appears to be a desperate cash grab from Musk and company." I would suggest you buy as many "Founder's semis as your cash flow can afford, Wait for the real specs and costs to be announced and total ignore what Cummin's and others are working on. 55 Tesla Semis are all that have been tendered by $5K deposits and ZERO takers for the Founders edition At $200K for the dopisit with no set price.. I wonder why? |
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Ugly.
As. ****. |
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What about Tesla or any of Musks ventures gives you any reason to believe this will never exist? It's built, going through testing, it exists. It's a done deal. SUPER easy vehicle to build that could even be built by hand with decent margins. Same goes for the Roadster. BTW, how do you know what the weight distribution is? Quote:
Your author doesn't seem to understand that charging will likely initially be installed at the main distribution hub where the trucks are parked at night, and at their destinations to allow charging whole unloading. Not only that, but they'll likely continue building their own, and partnering with gas stations and truck stops to install them at existing fueling points. As for proving themselves, LOLWUT? Electric motors are a far and away proven tech. As for the batteries, I think those too can be considered proven. A possible moot point though as the batteries might be leased to give operators peace of mind. I spoke with a diesel mechanic friend of mine, he says he expects adoption pretty quickly as diesel is currently about as efficient as we can make it. My dad, who used to own his own long haul trucking company, agrees. He's a hater, but seems to be bitterly impressed. Quote:
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What happens when Tesla unveils the prototype for the concept rendering of their medium duty truck and eats everyone's lunch there too? All that will be left is taking down consumer trucks, which again, shouldn't be too hard. You need to realize this is about understanding how to generate and store electricity EFFICIENTLY, and apply that tech to an inherently efficient vehicle design. Something existing industry has shown no real understanding of. The US is ESPECIALLY far behind in this regard. Quote:
We know that day one, 3 buyers reported ordering 55 semis between them. Many more also pre ordered semis that night, beings the big movers in the industry were all there to see it first hand. Meanwhile, Tesla has reported their expected costs. With the cost being so shockingly low, I can only expect orders will go up. With the payback for the added capex in the US under 2 years for a heavily used rig and less than a year in Canada and Europe, this is a no brainer. Over the million miles Tesla is guaranteeing the drivetrain for, the savings from operating this truck will pay for 3 more brand new semis. Tesla stock isn't about a car company. The stock is about the batteries and the itunes model of selling the hardware AND the music. Or the phone AND the software. Driving your own demand. In other words, selling the car, and the fuel. The big 3, and their eastern counterparts don't seem to get that either. Hell, they resisted so hard knowing it was superior tech. For what? They didn't want to upset the apple cart for their friends in oil and the parts industries? With electrification, both of those industries are next to dead. You should really get on board. 30% of US carbon emissions are from transport. A number easily brought down through electrification. Cool fact, in order to drive a Model S 300 miles, it takes about the same amount of electricity as powering your house for 3-4 days. Get one or two of these in every driveway and we WILL need new baseload power. Which, beings NEW baseload capacity is MUCH cheaper to deploy with renewables than fossil fuels(cheaper than nuclear too), Tesla again stands to gain as they make solar panels AND the cheapest best performing batteries available. DOE expected electric cars to be cheaper that their comparable ICE counterparts within 6 years, published last year(?). Tesla seems to be really early to that party. The magic number for battery cost is $100/kWh. Based on the semi and Roadster, if Tesla isn't there already, they are CRAZY close. WAY ahead of expectations. Meanwhile, the rest of industry is still aiming for early to mid 2020's. How on earth can you trust Wall Street mouth pieces who claimed to see no synergies between batteries, electric cars, and solar while Tesla was in the process of acquiring SolarCity? They're all a bunch of rubes. Tesla seems to progress to new victories seemingly ever other day, yet 9/10 articles about them are decidedly negative. It's pretty obvious there's a strong smear campaign being run. "Their balance sheet, blah blah blah". This is the silicon valley business model. The Street HATES it, but only b/c it breaks their system. Add in a CEO with a value of 20 billion and a "not afraid to lose it all" mentality, I don't think we'll see Tesla sunk. Unless of course the illuminati are real, lol. How can so many be against an American company with the most American made auto products in the world? I'll never understand it. Do you really want China to own the future? |
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I know why the traditional OEM's do it. Their EV and hybrids are compliance cars. Only built and offered to bring the average mpg of their fleet up above CARB State standards so their addressable market doesn't shrink. Only, as fiat, with their E500 have shown, they hate selling them b/c they lose money on each car for refusing to build out their supply chain. Solution: Make them ugly AF. Sell less. Comply. Profit. |
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Elon Musk fan boi sighting.
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Imma go to Florida to buy one in a 2 weeks. Can prob get a used end of 2014 Tesla Model S for $45k. Can save on avg 5-7% buying used cars in S Florida.
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Sounds good. |
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Buy new Tesla for 100k. Sell it for 50k 3 years later. And Teslas even hold their value better than most cars of this luxury class. Oorrr buy one used for 45k. Sell it 3 years later for 30k. As more and more superchargers become built it will be almost just like gas stations. Most of the time you arent taking your Tesla on long trips, that would be when i would use my Prius anyway so i dont put the miles on it. I understand you can charge your Tesla up to 80% in about 20 min at a supercharging station. |
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If you want to live your life never driving new vehicles that's up to you. Vehicles are an expense not an investment. Tesla is a good example of that. It would take you several lifetimes to recoup the money you save on gas from the purchase price of a tesla. But you're a Prius driver so you're familiar with that concept. |
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New vehicle purchases are hugely advantageous to a business owner.
I save a shitload in tax money, and over the 2-3 year life of owning it will be damn near the same cost as buying used only without the headaches. Give me an electric pickup that has the same torque and range as a diesel and I'm game. |
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What's the benefit of buying new and trading it in to be able to write another one off. I know you're in a service business so 95% of your miles are expensed... I always had a work truck and a business car, business car was almost always a 2 year old AMG thus not taking the depreciation hit while still under a MB service policy. |
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I’m on the other end. My position is industry standard is the business provides agronomists and managers a vehicle that they also drive to and from work. So I’m taking 100% of the bastard and the corporation pays repairs. I’m not dicking around with mileage logs, percentages, allocations, goddamned cluster**** rocket science equations to calculate a couple thousand dollars gain when you trade the ****er off. Not this ****ing guy. Corporation owns the pickup per industry standard. No sense making something simple complicated to the sake of the IRS. |
Porsche
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Also bonus of these are pollution regulations that keep changing especially in California. |
Much like the current cars, one of the fascinating parts of this will be all of the things they start adding that haven't been around before - even after purchase. I have to imagine assisted driving and backing will be coming, for example.
If too much acceleration becomes an issue, I bet a software option with company control would take care of it. |
It does not have to be new to take "section 179" as long as its a HD truck and is used 50% for business. Bonus is only for new but you would have to be buying a small SUV to capture it. On a small truck/ suv the 179 is capped at 25K and bonus on a new vs used would be $10K Trucks over 6Klbs are 100% write off new or used.
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I’m not going to speak to notorious’ tax planning but you asked the difference between new and used and bonus depreciation is the difference. |
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I need to look at section 179 and bonus together for equipment vehicles, |
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My pickup cost around 59k after sales tax. That saves me around 15k+in federal taxes in 2 years. It goes beyond just federal income tax too. Drops income lower so that health insurance is (was, now) cheaper, etc.
I get a brand new 59k truck for essentially 44k, trade in for $35-37k at a $6-8k total loss. That's pretty awesome for a truck with 65-70k miles when I'm done. I could have bought a Chevy Diesel 2500 with 170k miles for $20k, no warranty, pay for repairs, and been stuck with an unsellable truck after 2 years. I would have lost way more than 6-7k over 2 years with it. Also, I got to drive a new, badass vehicle for the 2 years instead of a 10 year old vehicle. That's why you see guys driving new pickups every year. |
yeah if it is a heavy work truck you get a 59K deduction dropping your earnings that much, It you are in a moderate tax bracket 28% + 15.3 you just saved $25K in fed and fica,(ss) payments.
If I buy a used truck w/ 6' bed that is 2 years old for $30K I get to write that much off also saving 29K and at 28% plus FICA or 13K totalizing 42K plus I get lower insurance, property taxes, and still get mileage or expense deduction. I like it, I didn't really run the numbers as to new vs used, but I think I see a 4 door truck with a 6 ft bed in my future. I always wanted a an El Camino SS |
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All the tax numbers are one thing but you still gotta write the check. Tax accountants give no ****s about cash flow. Many a mother****ers get strung on cash flow deficiencies. |
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Thanks for sending me that direction, |
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Have you looked at the gains made in batteries and solar over the last 5, hell, even 2.5 years? Now realize that Tesla has the auto industry flailing to catch up after they all downsized to the point of having essentially zero electrical engineering in house, opting instead to focus on making engines with a fast approaching ceiling "better". Enter dieselgate. Facts are, the auto industry all buy from the same parts manufacturers and basically just assemble parts off the shelf. They own the engine, but that's about it. The investment to catch up is much larger than they assumed. Don't believe me, just ask Porsche CFO Lutz Meschke. https://www.teslarati.com/porsche-mi...le-investment/ To add to their ire, none of them know anything about software. Ford a bit with Sync and MAYBE GM has a partner with investment in Lyft, but both are essentially on the bench. That's why all auto systems UI suck so badly. It's developed by the parts supplier to "work". It's a bigger distraction on the road than Teslas giant screens. By a long shot. Musk has a giant advantage there in that he owns 2 of the most attractive companies in the world to software programmers and software engineers as well as engineers at large. https://www.recode.net/2017/10/26/16...s-tech-workers https://www.forbes.com/sites/kathryn...dents-in-2016/ These guys missed on Apple, Google, Amazon, Nvidia, Broadcom, IBM, Netflix, Adobe etc. Anything they haven't seen before, they believe is a fad, a bubble or they explain it away some other way. They're old, out of touch and don't care about the future they won't be around for. Short term investors scoffing at long term potential. It's criminal what they do to investors. So when it's cheaper to buy an EV than an ICE car, and cheaper to add solar to your house than to pay the electric bill every month, are you still going to throw good money after bad? Mind you the two together represent a $6,000+ annual savings plus energy independence for the average 2 adult household. Not to mention the equity the solar system adds to your property. Both of these things will happen, without subsidy by 2027 at the latest. Prices are falling FAST. Now that nearly half the world's populations representative governments have set dates for ICE car sales death, and forced the auto industry at large into the battery electric arena against their will, investment in battery research is skyrocketing. There's absolutely a Moore's law for everything. Now, with bigger investment in research, the investment/progress timeline for batteries is accelerating. |
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https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/11/1...ar-lineup-2030 |
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Besides that. Most BRAND NEW Deere shit would max out the 179 limits anyway. ****ing Deere. It’s going to be one hell of a long time before I can buy any factory Deere paint. Someone else has to knock the new off (and the good in most cases) before I’m going to have it. |
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http://blog.caseih.com/wp-content/up...teiger-600.jpg |
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I am surprised you can fix anything on the new rigs. Even the bolts probably have computers going to them.
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Then later on the CSR comes out carrying this crap knife set that the coop gives out for patronage gifts and says we were a top 10 parts customer. He was trying to make a big deal about it. And I get it. He’s trying to reward his loyal customers or whatever. But damn all I could think was, “congrats Buehler. You got the junk equipment award.” :Lin: I can’t imagine what we would have had if we shelled a hydro or something. I think the only things we tore up were a driveshaft on a cornhead and a gearbox on a mower. The rest were wear parts! |
Top 10 parts customer is one of those awards you really don't want. LMAO
"Thanks for your tens of thousands of dollars of business. Here is a POS knife set to show our appreciation". https://cdn.business2community.com/w...0x211.jpeg.jpg |
As soon as he would of said top 10 in parts and had a shitty knife set to give me
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20120719042840 |
...... ya, about that semi.
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I don't give away knives, I bet Oprah does.
Getting things in order is tough especially when you slack off on the PM but the big question is "did you keep the knives?" Quote:
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These "reports" about the Tesla Semi program "being dead", are based off of one Amateur financial analysts symptom, based off of the fact that the Semi was largely ignored in the conference call. https://www.google.com/amp/s/seeking...esla-semi-dead The guy is the literal definition of hack, as are 90%+ of the writers over at Seeking Alpha. Nevermind that the entire focus of every investor on the call was Model 3 production, but it's also been the sole focus of Tesla for almost a year now. Using this guys logic, the Roadster, S and X, Energy Storage, Solar cells and pickup are all dead projects as well. The Semi project is very much alive. In fact, Musk said in that very quarterly earnings call that they'd likely beat their 500 miles range promise and should be close to 600 miles per charge. The guy also focuses on the fact that they "only" have 2000 Semi preorders. Completely ignoring the fact that an industry he himself calls "extremely conservative" is going to tread lightly with new tech, and will want to test internally extensively before making major investments. That said, some large buyers who have been a part of testing the early prototypes say that their number crunchers believe that the truck will pay itself off in under 2 years. The only real concern with the program is how Tesla will distribute the charging infrastructure necessary throughout the country and world. Personally, I think that won't be nearly the problem some make it out to be. I think those investing in the trucks will see the financial advantages of installing solar and storage along with charging infrastructure directly at their own facilities. Given Nearly 80 percent of freight in the U.S. is*moved less than 250 miles. The average length-of-haul in the trucking industry has dropped from about 800 miles 15 years ago to about 500 miles last year, according to the American Trucking Associations, a result of port expansions nationwide and the e-commerce boom. So a wholly owned charging solution should suit most customers. |
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Trucking companies have a TON of reasons to try and reduce fuel costs, so it won't be hard to get the capital investments to work once the concept is proven. |
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I'm digging around and it looks like Panasonic makes 18650's for Tesla. |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigafactory_1 |
Maybe Musk will one day wake up and begin manufacturing products that people want.
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But the Model 3 is the most desired car of all time. As in the history of the world. Clearly people want what he's making. |
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