dlphg9 is just trolling.


Williams is the best receiving RB we have.
CEH is is best at slipping through between the guards
Gore has the best vision

Both Gore and Williams are better at breaking runs.

CEH had a couple pretty good runs against the Raiders today.

The problem is, we tell a defense what the play is going to be if we only use the RB for what they are best at.

All this talk doesn't matter, Andy is going to use CEH because he drafted him in the 1st round. It will take several years before he moves on.

Lol coming to clown up my thread with your dipshittery?

What exactly am I trolling? You kinda said in your post what I said in OP. Williams is the best catching back and that's why I said he should be a 3rd down back and Gore is a bigger threat to break a big run. Also Williams is not more explosive than CEH. Williams is the worst RB at running it. He's not even close to CEH or Gore. ,

I already said they're both below average. I'm not saying Gore is better but...he did do something that CEH in hundreds more carries hasn't.

Clyde had two majestic TD runs in this game.

Majestic?

Is that like when that doctor on Seinfeld called the ugly baby "breathtaking"?

CEH doesn't take that run to the house...is what it is...he has a 1st round contract...Gore doesn't.

I like Gore, I do, but there's a whole lot of stupid in this thread.

I think Henne is a master at handing the ball off and CEH hasn't played with Henne.

Well...the fact the CEH has been "underwhelming" given his draft status opens up the debate. He's not terrible but he's just kind of there...serviceable is about the best word to describe him. Damien Williams was just as productive.

These types of threads didnt happen when Charles was playing...his on the field impact was tangible. Chiefs chose the wrong RB in CEH's draft....at least for being the 1st RB taken.

If he had been a 3rd or 4th rounder...it would be easier to accept. He was picked to take this offense to a new level...not break even.

Chiefs didn't really lose a beat when he was injured...

Hence JAG qualifier

Not in pads he isn’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The eye test doesn't work for everything when evaluating football players, you know.

I disagree but CEH is underwhelming enough that it opens up discussions like this because he is not obviously much better than guys that could be added like Gore.

Keep CEH as the lead back but if Breece Hall fell into the 2nd round I would pull the trigger.

I would love to see this type of run from CEH but so far in his NFL career he hasn't shown he can break one off.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Clyde Edwards-Helaire with a casual 89-yard TD run. <a href="https://t.co/mxsmXVOOnQ">pic.twitter.com/mxsmXVOOnQ</a></p>&mdash; Bobby Football (@Rob__Paul) <a href="https://twitter.com/Rob__Paul/status/1198430336956469248?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 24, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Feast? Don't think so.

Just like Pat can't feast on the deep throws.

You're wanting something this offense isn't designed for.

https://nflplayersnews.com/wp-conten...21/04/1-19.png

"I agree SNR. At the end of the day, it's all about the scoreboard!"

To reference another discussion...
The chiefs really don't need more carries, what they need is a bonafide threat when they do run it. It is frustrating watching an elite offense that is unable to punish defenses for doubling the deep routes and the TE.

Continued improvement from the oline will be great for the entire squad too.

I don't think you guys are being patient enough with CEH and he can have monster games and they are coming.


Last year he was beasting out before his injury and although he hadn't had a great start to the season he isn't the only one who struggled on offense.


Not giving him a chance or opportunity is grave mistake. I believe in CEH as much as he will get more playing time and make big plays running and catching the ball. Don't underestimate CEH.


He can carry five tacklers on his back for 4 to 5 yards and a first down.

The CEH disrespect is ridiculous.

Yeah this.


People will have egg yoke on their face. We will be winning championships with CEH starting running back.

Andy doesn't stick with the run.

Talent for your profession usually shows up way before the point he's at in his career. I'm going to respectfully disagree.

I could understand this if he wasn't getting opportunities. But he is the starting RB with plenty of carries and hasn't really shown much.

Gores on the season is 5.0 just saying

Only because of a single run from the game on Sunday. I guess they hadn't updated stats yet when I looked.

Nor should he.

looking at sample size, in December he is averaging 7.0 per carry. I know the sample is low, but considering out other running back have run for more thant 20 yards but once one 200 carries...

Williams and CEH = 208 runs
Long = 21 Yards
Big Play = 1

December Splits:
William= 4.0 Yards a carry
CEH= 3.8 Yards a carry
Gore= 7.3 Yard a carry

Gore = 29 Carries
Long = 51
Big Play = 1

Again the sample size is low, but the other running back have had 200+ carries and haven't shown the ability. Gore has had 29 carries so I think its atleast WORTH exploring

I agree with whoever posted earlier that one of our biggest issues with our running game is the lack of big run\homerun ability. So teams don't respect\fear our run game at all so they can sit in 2 high all game long.

This board has always been enamored with scrubs.

I just think Gore has the best vision, and our O-line is opening holes that should be 20+ yard rips at least 5+ times a game. I think Williams/CEH don't do very good running straight down hill and adjusting..

I think Gore out of all of them adjusts well with his feet and is able to burst.

I think the fact he adjusts fast (He has very quick feet) and his vision being better allows him to hit holes that are there with burst.

Vision + Quick Feet + Burst = Big play

We have been exactly here before...then they gave Jamaal a chance over the over-hyped Larry.... seems like that worked out okay....

Example:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/XwRN2mQ98W0" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This run was designed to go to the right based on the blocking/Gore initial run direction. He makes a subtle but decisive cut back left when he sees that big ****ing hole.

Example 2:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZU84AvXTEV8" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Look at him setup his blockers, hes not just blindly running into their backs. (Which I feel like Williams does all the time, CEH is a little better)

Example 3:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/t8BIX8QkrlE" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Because of his vision and quick feet he will be able to feast by either following the hole, or bouncing it. Something I have not seen the other running back do alot of is bouncing a run to the outside when contain is not there or is manned by a single DB (WHICH THEY SHOULD WIN)

I agree and when I first saw Gore in preseason I posted on here I thought he ran very naturally and had good vision. Earlier in the season CEH ran like he was blind, missing holes and very slow. I realize some of that was probably getting use to the new O Line. Still CEH or Williams hasn't really shown that big play run\home run ability in the run game.

Gore has one long run in a game that was so far out of reach they could have called it at halftime.

Kind of hard to call him a home run threat with such a small, barely relevant sample size.

I've shown three examples above that show at least to me something the other two haven't shown in 200+ carries

1. The ability to bounce the play outside when its available. The other two at least so far have NOT bounced near enough.

2. Cutback ability, CEH does this better than Williams, but those back side gaping holes are there alot of the time. And it feels like to many times they are just running right into our guys backs.

3. Vision, which is needed to do 1&2.....

I'm not saying hes PERFECT. But what I am saying is it would be nice to give him 20 carries in a game to find out if he could do it. I honestly thing he could get in a rhythm and have a 20-130 day more consistently than CEH.

Find a few plays that show him blocking. Because the first time he gets Mahomes waylaid, all of his vision and that other stuff goes out the window.

This is no different than Pringle or better yet, Thompson.

He's a backup for a reason. This staff all has rings, they know what they are doing.

Chris Jones played DE this year......... Please never use this argument again, as it is a really bad argument.

That was a move of necessity, created by a lack of starting caliber talent at DE.

This is not that. Not even remotely the same situation.

Let's put it this way:

Putting Jones at DE was about putting the best players on the field. Jones isn't just one of the best linemen on the team, he's one of the best players on the team period and one of the best linemen in all of football.

Derrick Gore is a backup.

Again, not even in the same hemisphere.

It doesn't have to be for that argument to be a bad argument. Hence why I specifically pointed it out.

That argument "Coachs have the ring they know better" is a logical fallacy.

200+ Carries = 1 big play

29 carries = 1 big play

Maybe it was just "Luck", but considering the preseason and Giants game. I think its 100% a theory worth testing...

What is the excuse for Sorensen playing? :p

Everybody was playing like crap early in the season, including Thornhill, and that's why Sorenson was in there.

Notice that once they got a pass rush, Sorenson went from liability to largely invisible to making splash plays.

I get that people want to nitpick every little thing they do but what they're doing is working. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

There's no reason to insert Gore into a larger role right now when he's doing well doing what he's doing. Just like Thompson and every other backup RB and WR that's come through here.

The Derrick Gore fawning is so bizarre. I like him, and think there's a role for him on this Team, but I'm also quite confident he's being used appropriately right now.

I'm with BR on this. Watching how Gore operates stands out on film. He has good vision and cutbacks that I don't see from the other running backs. I'll get killed for this, but it's reminiscent of Leveon Bell and his style.

Sorenson broke up a TD pass in the corner of the end zone.

The offense isn't designed for it.

..they've ran off six straight wins, and you guys are complaining about the RB's.

Everyone was saying from the get go Sorensen shouldn't be starting. He is a backup just like Gore is. The whole thing was bizarre.

In regards to Gore as long as he can pass block he should get more playing time and more carries to see what he can do. If he stinks with his carries it is not like we are missing much because CEH\Williams aren't doing any better.

and?

...it means nothing

He also has gotten smoked for a bunch of TD's that is why he is on the bench for most of the game.

Our Oline is built to run the ball and we face light boxes. Charles would be perfect for this offense and no team would be playing 2 high against us.

Sorenson is actually an apt comparison. In small sample size and limited use he is very productive. Expose him too much and he doesn't look nearly as good.

Same thing with Gore.

You need to come to terms with two things:

1. This is an Andy Reid team with Mahomes at QB. In order for Gore to get the 20-carry tryout suggested, the team would need to run the ball about 30 times total in one game that's not a blowout to get him there. That's NOT going to happen.

2. This team is on a winning streak and fighting tooth and nail to get a #1 seed. It SHOULDN'T happen. The time for experimenting ended weeks ago. This team has one goal and getting a backup RB more carries isn't it.

The whole defense sucked early on. Now?

Charles? LMAO..not even relevant to the discussion.


Try to at least ENJOY the winning streak, instead of a futile castigation of a couple of players

Based off of what exactly?

Gore:

11 Touches 106 Yards/4.3 a carry/1TD *Vikings*
8 Touches 54 Yards/ 6.8 a carry *Cardinals*
11 Touches 48 Yards / 4.8 carry / 1TD *Giants*
11 Touches 89 Yards/ 7.3 carry / 1 TD *Raiders*
5 Touches 8 Yards / 1.5 carry *49ers*

His average over everytime he touches the ball is 6.6 Yards

They didn't have quality in front of Sorenson at the time. None of us wanted him in there but the alternatives weren't palatable either.

They have not one but two quality backs in front of Gore.

What is your opinion based on other than an almost statistically insignificant sample size?

No, you all are MMQB late in the season, heading towards the playoffs.

It's a waste of time at this juncture.

Team is in contention for the #1 seed and has 6 straight wins.

Let's change the offense and start a 3rd string RB because he's a "home run" threat.

Sounds like a solid plan.

I like him as well, but I don't think he's being misused right now. If he keeps maximizing on his opportunities, then I would imagine that his PT will be commensurate with the production.

I don't see Leveon Bell, btw.

Well factoring in the EYE test, Gore stands a better chance of hitting the CORRECT hole and the RIGHT time to break a long run.

People disputing that he has potential to do so is pretty dumb. I've already said I think we should test this theory.

LA is a perfect team to test it on, run the ball down their throats.

I'm not sure that CEH has seen a look like this all season. They completely vacated the inside aside from a safety who completely whiffed on the play.

When the hell have the Chiefs ever seen a look like that this season with Mahomes in the game? Never? Maybe on the goal line only?

On top of that, the Raiders blew their run fits. This was about as rare as a play as you'll ever see for the Chiefs and Gore was the benefactor, not the creator of.

I mean, big run plays come against teams that stack the box, because once you get past the 2nd level there's nothing but green grass. Like the play we're debating here.

Big run gains don't come against 2 high looks, my dudes. There are safeties/LB's keeping the play in front of them and then crashing down on the run.

All this "CEH can't do this" shit is waaaay off. It's a complete misunderstanding of how big run plays are generated.

If you're waiting for 40+ yard runs against a cover 2 shell you're gonna be waiting a really long f'n time my dudes.

They've seemingly gotten their run D right the last few weeks, so im not sure it'll be that easy.

In reply to both posts, I understand 2 high is going to prevent 40+ yard runs. But our current two starting RB's long is 21 yards. And it has happened a total of 1 time this year.

I really believe with the light boxes we are seeing and our OL blocking we should be seeing much more 10+ yard runs. Something I personally believe Gore has a better chance at getting based on limited sample size.

I think what seems to be lost among Chiefs fans this season is this misconception that a Cover 2 should yield big runs. That's just not true.

These shells are effective at preventing big runs just as they're effective against big passes.

Yeah, you get a shallow box, but the field is loaded at the 2nd and 3rd levels that prevent these big runs from happening.

You don't "test" shit with 4 weeks left in a potential super bowl season.

You wanna talk about "pretty dumb"? That's pretty dumb right there.

Explain what you mean by test? Because I think the game plan for Thursday is to win the game and create a two game seperation in the West. We aren't in "test" mode, we are in win mode. We've won 6 in a row with a recipe that doesn't include a high dosage of Derrick Gore. Barring any injuries or a blow out scenario, if Gore gets more than 3-5 carries, I'd be shocked.

Do you want 20-yard runs or 10-yard runs?

Based on limited sample size, he's had 28 carries for 95 yards (if you remove his one big outlier run), or 3.4 YPC. Or another way to put it, the worst YPC of any back on the team.

Gore is nifty in space, i get it.

But i think we're getting too caught up in 1-2 big plays he's made and are forgetting about the 27 other runs that were complete garbage.

Especially since this biggest of those plays he was moreso the benefactor of, rather than the creator of.

And again, comparing that run to CEH just isn't fair. That's a defensive look the starters simply never see.

It was suggested that such a test would be 20 carries or so.

For that to be relevant, those carries would have to come in a contested game - not while running out the clock in a blowout like last Sunday.

So with all that in mind, even on a run-heavy NFL team, the lead back isn't getting but about 80% of the carries.

So the Chiefs would have to run the ball probably 30 times to get Gore 20 carries.

It's simply not going to happen. Nor should it. The Chiefs shouldn't be running the ball 30 times in a tight game with ANYBODY, let alone Derrick Gore.

BS, Thornhill was ready to play it was a loyalty thing with Spags. Thornhill just didn't all of sudden become ready to play after teams were smoking Dan every other play.

As RB's they haven't shown that all season. They all are average.

Agree to disagree.

I like CEH personally. His second TD was a thing of beauty.

Tyreek Hill is so overrated. This season he's only averaging 11.4 yards per catch. In 458 receptions, his longest play is only 79 yards. Meanwhile, Marc Boerighter had a 99 yard TD catch in only 39 career receptions. Clearly, Tyreek just doesn't have Boerighter's home run ability.

Just imagine what this offense could be if we could replace a scrub like Tyreek with a truly explosive player like Marc Boerighter.

With CEH in the game he has more eyes on him than when other running backs are in the game. Teams prepare for CEH and know he is a backfield threat.


CEH had two great touchdowns in the game but lets **** him over and Patrick Mahomes II at the same time because that's who Patrick asked for and the coaches believe in CEH.

I'll take Bart Vreech draft picks over any one on this board until they aren't a Chief anymore and that is still Brut Voch decision to make.

:facepalm::facepalm:

That's not even a fair comparison Randy Moss nor Jerry Rice had a 99 yard touchdown reception in the field of play. Marc Boerighter GOAT > Moss Rice Hill.

To your facepalm

<img src="https://i.pinimg.com/originals/88/df/e4/88dfe49fc3ed2a22ebfe6ce74b5aa12c.gif" alt="Facepalm GIF - Find &amp;amp; Share on GIPHY | Facepalm gif, Perfect gif, Giphy"/>

This was certainly an attempt at being clever.

Tyreek is having one of the greatest WR years in Chiefs history. CEH is having one of the most average RB seasons in Chiefs history.

Didn't the Chiefs offense run CEH 4 consecutive times to start a drive and he grounded two first downs or did I imagine that?

...you imagined that.

LMAO preseason? You are using preseason data?

Sorenson didn't give up a single preseason TD either. LMAO