I didn't watch enough of Stroud or know enough about him to really form an opinion on the guy going into the draft, but I can understand anybody who might have been skeptical of him, because that OSU history is a far bigger factor than people want to believe. Yes, it only takes one Rodgers to vindicate Cal QBs or one Mahomes to vindicate TT QBs (well... sort of) but I can't really say there was THAT much of a difference to see in Stroud versus the two starters who came before him. At least in Mahomes' case of TT QBs, he possessed absolutely unreal arm talent as well as other jaw-dropping physical and competitive characteristics that should have been considered before comparing him to absolute yucks like Kliff Kingsbury who got drafted. Any scout or GM who legit passed because they were afraid of Tech's Air Raid and the numbers their QBs could produce is/was an absolute pea wit.

Stroud was big, strong, and accurate? Okay. So was Dwayne Haskins. It wasn't like the recent OSU QB history was predicated on comparing Stroud to a bunch of Craig Krenzels, which is what many scouts did when erroneously pointing to Kingsburys as the reason why Mahomes wasn't a QB worth a top 1st round pick, or even why Deshaun Watson was toooootally a far safer QB to draft.

Bumping this bc Poles is most likely getting fired next month. Passed on Stroud, gave the Steelers a 1st for Claypool which failed miserably and now they gave a high 2nd for Sweat who isn't even sure he's gonna sign an extension with them.

Poles has been pretty damn terrible tbh

Sweat signed a big honkin deal so Poles probably gets another season

I think I made my feelings known pretty well in this thread: https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=348084

I would have never pinned my hopes to that kid that early

Panthers GM should of been pink slipped today. Traded the house away and didn't get Stroud.

Who could have thought this was going to work?

Only super dumb people, which apparently includes the Carolina front office. I honestly don't understand how half of the front offices in the NFL are even employed.

Really bizarre, honestly. CP does a better job from the couch than some of these teams do.

To me, you can't have unchecked boxes when you trade up to 1.1 for a QB but that's precisely what they did.

Every week this trade looks dumber and dumber.

Makes you feel grateful for the situation we are in....

https://www.nfl.com/news/panthers-fi...on-in-carolina

LOL.

Though I'd take Staley as RB coach and move Pinkston to WR coach... since they both actually played those positions under Reid...

They're pretty much ****ed and Young is gonna have to gut out another shit year.

Unless they just start trading off defensive pieces....which you know what that means.

if i were them i’d trade off their defensive pieces and reinvest the assets in the offense

you’ve kinda gotta go all in w young at this point. trade burns for a first and get one of those 20s wrs.

"Take my draft picks!"

I do agree they probably need to unload Burns and get a 1st back. He probably nets at least a 1st and 2nd round pick, if not two 1s.

I can't see a new HC wanting to sign off on sticking with Young. There is nothing there to really hang your hat on. And, they really don't have to saddle themselves to Young with the modern rookie salary cap. Yeah, you made a mistake and might have to give up an asset to reset the draft capital, but it's not the end of the world. I'd probably try to position myself in the middle of the 1st in trading Burns to make a move for Bo Nix... but they might be stupid and stick with Young another year.

A realistic play for them is to use their cap space to get one of the top vets at WR, like Tee Higgins, to give whoever is the young QB a consistent target.

If they do insist on sticking with Young, maybe making a move for a LT in 1 and moving Ekwonu inside to OG is the best strategy. Use your high 2nd on a replacement for Burns at ER, then go get a slot WR or TE in the 3rd.

They've ****ed the Burns situation up so bad, but yeah they need to trade him.

I might make a call on Derrick Brown if they wanna move him for some picks.

yeah, if I'm them I'm looking for cornerstone guys that aren't going to immediately win you games. You know you're not going to win enough to get anywhere.

Meaning, a LT, basically. Draft a bunch of OL. Build yourself a wall and try for a QB in '25.

Never mind. Totally spaced that they actually gave up their #1 for that midget.

LOL.

YOU'RE ****ED!

LOL

*The Broncos make the worst trade ever for a QB*

Panthers one year later: Hold my beer!

The Panthers basically chose Young over Stroud AND Caleb/Maye.

Think about that for a second.

Don't throw good money after bad.

Just remember - they did this the year AFTER they took Ole Miss quarterback Matt Corral in the 3rd. He will never play an NFL game even as a backup. He and Logan Bruss are the only guys taken before the 6th round that year who have never played an NFL game and at least Bruss is on a practice squad.

Corral is just...gone. Cut by the Panthers after a year on IR, signed by the Patriots, had some sort of mental thing and is just out of the league altogether.

The capital they've thrown at the QB position is pretty hilarious to STILL have smashed ass at the position.

Yea, that's bad. They're absolutely the worst organization in football right now.

If they drafted Stroud they'd definitely be the 4th seed. They'd have cruised to a divisional title with the talent on that team.

All of the people I work with in Raleigh are so miserable. They know the biggest problem can't be fired. I truly feel bad for them.

Eh I'm not so sure about that.

They have some talent on defense, but the offense is very meh.

I don't think Stroud has the success he has had in Houston there. He'd definitely be better than Young, but the 4th seed? That's a reach.

Yeah, Houston has 3 WRs that are better than anything Carolina has to offer. They have a better OL and better running game as well. Hell, they look better at TE also.

Take the QB out of the equation and Houston still smokes Carolina across the board.

My God.

He's so bad. So very, very bad.

.. and to pass on Stroud to boot...and somehow Bo Nix looked worse than Young.

What a circus.

What a time we're in.

Intergalactically bad decisions. WAAAAAY ****ing worse than trading for and paying Matt Cassel. Just incredible.

Miraculously, I think Deshawn Watson is by far the worst decision. I heard on a podcast - haven't double checked it, but if they shitcan his ass after this year the dead money will be $197M (!).

ROFL

Absolutely remarkable.

Told my Browns fan friend that they need to start looking to draft a QB and have Watson as an extremely expensive backup.

It's their only way out long-term.

They can't pay real money for a replacement because of how expensive Watson is. But they can't just waste Garrett's prime with Watson losing games for them.

Yeah, they need to tank and draft a QB this off-season. They'll still be stuck with Watson on the roster for 2 more seasons (and of course, the dead money off the void years at the back of it) but if the rookie QB doesn't cost them much, they can get away with it.

Not terribly dissimilar from the Cousins/Penix thing in Atlanta. It can be done. And the new QB could at least set them up for life after Watson.

If they bottom out this year, they have to be looking at QB in the draft.

Most of the people I work with are located in Raleigh. Yeah it’s not a good Mondy for them.

They basically passed on CJ Stroud and gave the pick away for Caleb Williams. Yikes

Tepper needs to yell at more bar employees.

AAAAND they've benched Young for Dalton.

Williams may well be as bad. He's shown absolutely nothing despite being drafted to one of the best situations all time for a QB drafted #1.

It's going to be annoying to look back on at some point, when Houston gets by KC because Stroud is special.

But right now, it's just hilarious.

Yeah, that's the biggest frustration of the whole thing.

The NFC is just completely bereft of young QB talent and the one damn time they have a clear path to taking a really good one they take...Bryce friggen Young.

The mini jump passes to throw the check down tells you everything you need to know- depressing to watch.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-media-max-width="560"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">full highlight reel of bryce young&#39;s jumping checkdowns <a href="https://t.co/VnBBk8vjxg">pic.twitter.com/VnBBk8vjxg</a></p>&mdash; Austin Gayle (@austingayle_) <a href="https://twitter.com/austingayle_/status/1835689480344457421?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 16, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus.

Thats really ****ing bad.

I just do not understand how they thought this guy was gonna work out.

I get Ryan Leaf. I get JaMarcus Russell. I can squint and see immense talent in either of those guys.

In an absolutely PERFECT world, Bryce Young ends up average for 12 games/season in between injuries. For about 6-7 years. And you end up eating a massive chunk of dead money at the back of his contract when that 2nd deal blows up in your face when he's fully and finally broken by trying to play NFL football in a high schooler's body.

There was just never a chance this went well. Ever.

I mean, if Mahomes flamed out you'd say the same thing about him. You've got to take your shot.

But yeah, that dude?

I mean what are you leaning on? he played well at Alabama? He moves around OK? He's above average at a couple things. That's not going to offset the size, which is real bad.

The clsoest thing was you could talk yourself into him becoming Brees. Pretty smart, pretty accurate, quick release. You could kinda see that at Alabama, not elite like Brees which is where the comparisons fall apart, but that's the only case I see.

But watching that video, Christ, you just have to be in a room with a dude that small to run up some red flags.

That was my biggest argument in the Mahomes/Watson debate.

The folks that liked Watson did some of the same stupid "He's a winner" shit and my response was always - "yeah, but if it WORKs, what do you have?"

And when you really started looking at Watson you saw a guy who's accuracy was fine. Who's arm was actually a tick below average for an NFL quarterback. Who wasn't terribly mobile. Who's decisionmaking couldn't really be gauged because he had a really simple offense and premier players around him.

Whereas with Mahomes you could see tools that just screamed off the screen. If it worked, you knew you had an All Pro talent (in my wildest dreams I didn't see "Best QB to ever do it" and I loved the kid).

With Young, even if it worked, you weren't getting much out of it. Average for a short period of time was all you were getting. I will ignore (and did in this thread) every single Brees comp ever made. He's an exception that proves the rule. So at Young's size, there was literally no floor either.

Like I said, I can handle guys with no floor (Leaf, Russell, and like you said - Mahomes) if the ceiling is so high that it justifies it. And hell, I can understand (even if I disagree) the argument for taking a guy like Watson who's high floor would seem to offset the low ceiling.

But Young had a low ceiling and no floor. It was just dumb from the moment it was first rumored.

Agreed. And Ill also eat the L on Watson being good being the **** it chuck it to DHop dude.

Mahomes was viewed as a giant risk, but somehow Bryce Young was a good idea?

I thought maybe his accuracy and mobility would drag him through to mediocrity, but obviously his accuracy went from good to ****tarded when he tossed his fundementals out the window and he thinks he's more mobile than he is and it gets his ass in trouble.

He was absolutely a horrible decision and it's playing out as poorly as possible.

About Watson's second year, when everyone was blaming his OL, I watched him play a couple games and said "Hey guys, you realize that Watson is KILLING his OL, right?"

It was pretty apparent early on that Watson was getting a whole bunch of excuses made for him that just didn't check out upon actual observation.

Oh yeah, weren't there some "Is Tunsil washed" discussions being had?

Hilarious how the worm has turned on that dude and literally nobody wants him around anymore. ROFL Guy assaults a few women for some butthole massages and suddenly the whole world is against you!

Good takes! Thanks for the read.

You can be an deviant OR you can be bad at football.

You can't be both.

Oh folks can say the issue is the former, but the Browns traded for him while all that was happening. The real issue is the latter.

Nobody wants him around because he's bad at football. If he weren't, they'd hire him some masseuses with a certain morally casual attitude and soak up that playoff gate with a smile.

It's just not a good idea to draft a midget to play QB in the NFL. It's really that simple.

Revolutionary concept, eh?

It's just so strange to me that the Panthers (and evidently other teams/draft gurus) didn't see what was so clear on its face.

I think to it's safe to say at this point that the guy sucks ass.

https://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-cont...gimme-five.gif

Doug Flutie has been one of one of QBs under 5'10 so far in the NFL. Kyler Murray shows flashes, but I don't think he has it in him to sustain it over a decade+ career.


Here's a question - if we didn't have Bailey Zappe as the heir apparent to Carson Wentz's job next year, would you take Bryce Young as Mahomes' backup if the Panthers unceremoniously dumped him this upcoming offseason? Personally, I'd say no, but knowing Andy as the QB whisperer he is, I might be intrigued to find out what he could do with the kid.

No....NO...NOOOOOOO

Based on everything I can find, Young measured 5’10 & 1/8” at the combine. That’s the exact same height as Kyler and half an inch shorter than Russell Wilson.

You mention Flutie and, tbh, I’d be surprised if Brees measured higher than 5’11” by his late 2010 seasons.

I’m not really sure height or weight are the culprits here.

I'd rather have Bailey Zappe.

You can't run an NFL offense with this guy under center. You have to change everything.

A big part of being a viable backup QB is versatility. It's why Tebow was never going to work in that regard. It's why Kaepernick wouldn't. It's why a guy like Tyler Huntley can be a backup QB in Baltimore behind Lamar or maybe Murray, but wouldn't work about anywhere else.

Your backup has to match styles with your starter.

Young doesn't match styles with anyone.

Can't train a guy to be able to see over his linemen.

Said this during the '23 preseason before he ever played a regular season down. You could just tell he didn't belong out there with real NFL players.

Flutie wasn't that great. His career was under 55% and he struggled most of the time with TD:INT ratio. He really only had one legitimately solid season in his entire career. He's just a nice story coming from the CFL and being small but it certainly doesn't make him good.

Kyler and Russell are legitimately 25-30 pounds heavier than Midget. Midget artificially inflated his weight, which he can't carry, for the combine.

Not only does the real weight matter but the arm strength. Kyler and Russell have way stronger arms than Young. They can make those off-platform throws you have to make if you're short and can't make traditional throws over the top.

Flutie is the best Young could ever hope to be and I just don't see it.

Sure, but 55% completion back in those days wasn’t terrible. For reference, Elway was just under 57% and Marino ended his career at 59%.

I’m not saying he was great, but you don’t stick around the league for that long if you’re truly terrible.

It may be a combination of factors for Young. I’m just not sure the reason for the difference in performance between Bryce Young and Drew Brees, who was also short, slight and had a relatively weak arm, is just an inch’s worth of height.

So how bad will this pick end up being in a historical sense?

Good point on Elway. I tend to remember the latter half of Elway's career over the first half which were significantly different. Of course, Flutie came back to the NFL pretty much when Elway was done and things were already changing. Elway's completion percentage was much higher in that last half. You think that by 1998, half the QBs in the league were starting to hit 60% regularly.

Flutie wasn't terrible, I just don't know about the words good or one of one.

Midget on the other hand, so far looks every bit of terrible.

Well Andy Dalton just put up 300 yards and 3 scores so....really bad.

It's an all timer. Worse than Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russell. Up there with Trey Lance, but maybe worse. It's not just how spectacularly he busted, but also the huge haul of draft picks AND giving up DJ Moore to get him. Set this franchise back years. This might go down as the worst draft pick ever.

Red Rifle lit it up with the same cast ROFL

i saw that score and immediately thought, "how the hell bad is Bryce Young?"

Jesus. Dalton was washed 5 years ago.

I got sooo much shit for stating what should have been obvious to everyone.

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=334613

Does Andy Dalton or Bryce Young have more trade value?

Yeah, Bryce looks terribad.

Andy Dalton making them look respectable certainly isn’t a good look for Young.

Maybe the Panthers did genetic testing and figured out that he's still growing. He'll end up being 6-6 or something.

Me too.

People were talking about how AWESOME Watson was, and I was looking at the 'highlights' and seeing almost exclusively 50/50 jump balls to Deandre Hopkins. To me, it was HOPKINS that looked great, not Watson. Watson looked like he was just arm punting the ball down to Hopkins any time it was 1 on 1.

There's just no way that's sustainable, I thought.

Oooooooof