I had this convo with him once already. He just really likes to whine and bitch.

Holy shit, did you forget this post from this very thread about Hardman's rookie season. It was directed at you and you even responded to it.

Putting this here on a new page, so you don't miss it.

Comparing a QB to a WR?

Comparing an offensive rookie to another offensive rookie playing for an offensive head coach that doesnt give offensive rookies a lot of offensive snaps in year one of them learning the offensive playbook. Do you find that offensive?

He'll be fine but if you signal fair catch - you catch that Gosh Damn ball!

I like that he is ignoring my post, because it proves him wrong.

Loww Floor will be Skyy''s nickname if he keeps ****ing up

I'm glad the Chiefs' FO isn't as short-sighted as you. FFS.

Doesn't Highh Floor rhyme better?

I think his new nickname should be:
Dirty Drawers

He's always shitting his pants.

Here are all of my posts about Skyy in this thread.

He’s pretty much right where I expect him to be at this point and I think you’re going to see his role increase after the bye and by the time we’re going into the postseason, he’s going to be a real weapon.

FWIW Andy clearly put Patrick’s INT on Skyy in the postgame today. Called it a “learning moment” for him (he said Skyy didn’t come back inside correctly on the route).

I think there was a lot to read from the comment. If anything it gives light as to why Skyy is still being eased into the role. Andy did say he and Patrick worked it out and that he has Patrick’s trust, but that may have been part of Andy pulling a positivity sandwich after being so real about a player’s blunder in the press conference.

I’m a big fan of Moore FTR

Now you've got Andy thinking about a sandwich.

I'm getting pretty pissed off at the insistence on making him PR. I know Toub isn't whiffing these catches but FFS the technique is horrible, what has he been taught with some of these attempted laces catches. It also IS a different skill and not every decent WR is going to master it. You just know Toub's going to use it as some BS "character" test and keep trotting him out there rather than just admitting the experiment is a s**t one and needs to be ended.

I like Moore, shame to hear the INT was on him but I really don't want to give up on this guy this early. He DOES need more snaps in my opinion but if he's making route mistakes you can see why it's a slow start.

Yeah, coming from Western Michigan to Andy's offense is a giant step. Kid needs time.

Everybody around here has been pining for the days of Eric Fisher lately.

You remember how ****ing god awful that guy was at the start of his career? And he was ****ing terrible for like 2.5 years?

It's been 7 games for Moore. Christ. Put a pacifier in your mouth and shut the **** up, you giant baby.

I don't know why you guys can't grasp the concept that this offense takes time to fully digest. That there are multiple reads both pre-snap and post snap for the receivers, and when they're not on the same page, it looks ugly. And THAT is how games like Indy happen.

Moore was never going to step in, be the day one #1 and rack up stats. No rookie would. No, not even Pickens. It was always going to take time.

Even the vets like Juju and MVS are just now starting to fully grasp it.

It's not simply a play drawn up on paper to be memorized. It's fluid, it changes based on what the defense does in real time, and it's not easy to execute those reads and do it WITH Mahomes on the fly.

He'll be fine.

DJLN is usually right.


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Do agree that people need to be more patient with Skyy……except as a punt returner. He cost us one game back there already and thankfully Jimmy G is awful or else his muffed punt yesterday could have changed the game.

Will he be better than Hardman?


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Wasn’t it during training camp that JuJu said he learned more about offense in the short time he had been here than the rest of his career combined? This is a complex offense that takes time to learn and hopefully Moore shows progress the rest of the year and into next year.

I'm wrong a lot. To this point JJSS has me looking like I undersold him. Ironically I had expected Moore to be producing better than he has to date.

But I'll at least explain myself (in extremely long-winded fashion) and go on the record either way. Makes it easier to have instances of correct opinions when you have opinions on pretty much everything...

But for the record, I'm still wrong less often than most.

Pretty horrible start to his career. Pickens or Pierce look like much better options that we could have had. Hopefully he can turn it around.

So ****ing sick of hearing about George ****ing Pickens. Who ****ing cares?

The kiss of death.


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He still has an elite trait...his "separation burst". He recieves the ball very well from what little I have seen. I was hoping to see more from him by this point, and I think we will by December, but I imagine a great deal of time, effort, and reps have gone to JSS and MVS, in an attempt to get THESE veterans where they need to be...if it has taken them a few months to produce at a high level, you can imagine how long it takes a rook. Catching punts is mostly confidence...imho it is on the coaches for putting a unconfident player in a position to fail. He should do better, yes, but today's punters are kicking 50 yd knuckleballs and he should have a mental break.

I do like his catch technique. It's like I said about MVS in the other thread - some guys you can watch play and understand why they drop balls. Then with others, their technique is better than their results.

MVS is firmly in the latter camp, IMO. I watch him play and just do not understand why he gets a rep as having stone hands. I think it really does come down to one bad year and one spectacularly bitchy quarterback throwing him the football and then gesticulating wildly when it doesn't go his way.

Watching Moore receive the ball, he does have good catch technique. He should be a really reliable underneath weapon when he figures out the routes and especially when he figures out how to diagnose defenses and work himself into the soft spots in zone coverages (which he simply wouldn't have seen as much due to the lower level of competition he faced in college). If he can start to do that more, he'll see more man matchups where he can use his short area quickness to get open.

I still don't see - at ALL - what Staylor sees with this idea that he's going to be a premier boundary receiver and not a guy who works primarily from the slot. But I still think a Sterling Shepard kind of player can still be had there.

There are things to like - he just has a fair ways to go yet.

Moore is the perfect inside/slot WR. He's got a good stab with his hands, pulls the ball in clean, and has pretty good separation in short spaces. The guy was made for the middle of the field, IMO.

If that’s the case, why the hell does KC keep drafting slot WRs and nothing else?

Because that is the skillset they value. They want versatility at every WR position.

Hardman wasn't drafted as a slot. He was drafted as an X, IMO (with Sammy shifting to Z and Hill essentially getting bounced from the league), and it didn't work out the way they'd planned, both in positive and negative ways.

Robinson was a flyer.

Who else have they drafted over the last 5 years that they had any reasonable expectation of success with?

I think the reason they drafted Moore is obvious, especially when combined with the addition of MVS and the continued presence of Hardman. They weren't looking to replace Hill's downfield speed - they found that elsewhere.

They were looking to replace Hill's short area quickness.

It's just a matter of pursuing a skill-set. If they don't retain JJSS and/or Hardman, they'll be pursuing completely different skill-sets in this coming draft.

It's not hard to see what they were trying to do. It's just not the route I'd have gone.

Yup yup.

He's on an Andy Reid coached team, where he slow plays rookies and gives them limited snaps. And who is he supposed to be getting snaps over exactly? Obviously not Kelce, JuJu, or MVS. Maybe Hardman/Watson? How exactly is he supposed to get 50-100 yards a game when he's sharing snaps at the #3/#4 position?

If we had ZERO talent or experience at WR, sure, Moore would probably be starting every game and be given all the snaps. But that's not how our team is structured right now.

Pickens has played at least 70% of the snaps and they are force feeding him the ball. FFS they are return to rid themselves of Chase Claypool. Much different than Skyy Moore sitting behind Juju, MVS and Hardman.

When Hardman is gone next year I think you’ll see more of Skyy doing the things he did.

But in terms of the draft, no I would not have wanted Pickens in a redraft. I’d have gone with Sam Williams instead

People are really bitching about not drafting Pickens? Why? So you could be in his thread bitching about the fact that he's not getting targets or starting?

So we could bitch about Skyy Moore getting starts and targets for someone else.

He’ll always be compared to Pickens just like CEH is compared to Taylor and mcduffie to Elam etc

Looking forward to seeing him get more involved in the passing game

and maybe less involved in special teams

Sam Williams or Drake Jackson would have been a nice pick there

I wonder how much playing time and/or targets those other rookie WRs would be getting if they were in Reid's offensive system. From everything I've heard, it's a complex system that takes a lot of time to learn, especially for rookies. That, to me is why it is silly to try to make comparisons to other WRs in other systems.

And understandably so. I don’t compare McDuffie to Elam because I absolutely trust their scouting at CB.

WR/RB is a different story. Until proven otherwise their track record suggests they take players with limited skill sets to fill niche roles instead of just drafting elite talent on offense.

This is where I'm at. I can live with a rookie receiver running a bad route that leads to an INT. That's going to happen. I can live with the fact that we have enough depth to not force him into a big role too early.

But let's end the punt return experiment. That's clearly not a strong suit of his.

I usually like reading DJLN's posts and I usually agree with him. But he is not always correct. And frankly, I think he's wrong on this one. Time will tell, I guess.

You do know this is CP right? People still complain about CEH over Taylor and Hardman over DK.

Good lord, I get we’re spoiled around here and all and we all love Veach and Reid, but do most (some) Chiefs fans really expect us to draft the best or close to best at every position every year? I mean, **** people, there are 31 other teams in the NFL with front offices and scouts that get paid a shit ton of money to make the best personnel decisions for their team too.

Yeah, we drafted CEH over Taylor. You know who else passed on Taylor before Indy drafted him? 29 other teams. It’s not like we were talking about Marshall Faulk or Eric Dickerson here. Taylor was not an obvious ‘must have’ pick for teams that were looking for a RB. In hindsight, we shouldn’t have drafted CEH, but neither Taylor, who wouldn’t have been utilized in this offense the way he is in Indy. If we were wanting to increase the explosiveness of our offense, we should have grabbed a WR like Tee Higgins or Claypool. Hindsight is a beautiful thing.

As far as comparing McDuffie or Moore to ANYONE right now, it’s an exercise in futility at this point. We’re not even halfway into their rookie seasons yet. That story has not been written yet. And that’s not even taking into account McDuffie has been injured (thanks to a stupid field) and only played a half of football and Moore’s situation (4th on the WR depth chart) is completely different than Pickens, who basically is being treated like a #1 or #2 WR on a weekly basis and being force fed the ball. The situations are completely different and not even remotely comparable. Put Pickens on the Chiefs and Moore on the Steelers and what do you think each guys numbers look like right now?

I swear some in this thread need to get a grip on reality . . . . . .

The comparisons will stop when he inevitably becomes a meltdown machine. He’s a hell of a talent but not one we need right now. We’re seeing very quickly what Elijah Moore is doing pouting on a team that is otherwise in very good spirits.

What I said was that he's not an inside only guy, and this has been said by Andy as well. I don't doubt that he will be lining up in the slot a lot, but I think he will play outside too.

I agree with pretty much everything you said here. Like it or not the comparisons are inevitable. It’s too early to say that Moore was a bad pick. I was really excited about him when we picked him and was even more excited after the reports from training camp. I think it’s fair to say though that the start to his career has been a disaster. I know he came from a small school and that takes a while to learn Andy’s offense but that doesn’t excuse the fumbles on punts.

For the record, I do think that Veach is a good gm but he’s certainly not above criticism. The good news is that we’re 5 and 2 with an underwhelming contribution (so far) from the 2022 draft class.

It's odd to me that people expect young WRs to get a significant number of snaps. Andy ALWAYS protects young guys. Add that to the fact that Skyy has looked...let's just say iffy...and I don't expect that to change much.

I'm not down on the kid and think he has a lot of upside. But it's pretty clear that we need to give him a chance to develop a bit before he's gonna move the needle much for us.

You can say this in regards to his career as a PR, but that should've never been a thing in the first place.

If you're saying this in regards to him as a WR, that's just ridiculous hyperbole.

It's amazing that people can't separate him as a WR from him as a PR.

Apparently, most people have trouble distinguishing the difference between a pass and a punt. It's OverreactionPlanet, what do you expect?

For me though it all comes down to who is good during the scramble drill and who can think on their feet. Kelce can do it. Hardman can't. Some of it is just natural. And so far Skyy hasn't shown he can do it. Per the coaches anyway. I'll be honest I didn't see any issue with some of Skyys routes but obv coaches and Mahomes know what he should be doing and he's just not doing it.

The only thing I would have changed from yesterday is once we had assured the win, I would have manufactured some plays to Skyy. Even in the years they were slow rolling Hill and Hardman they'd toss them a screen or put them on a jet sweep to get them involved in the offense. We're not doing that for Skyy. Wish they would have done that just to keep his spirits up and just get the ball in his hands to get easy yards and possibly a breakout play.

Why do you need to separate the two when discussing the contributions we've rec'd from a 2nd round pick thus far? Especially when the overwhelming majority of the impact he's made to this point has been as a returner and has been detrimental.

And I'm not someone who says 2nd rounders should be immediate starters or anything like that.

But thus far the kid has 6 catches for 100 yards through 7 games - that ain't great.

As a WR, he and Justin Watson have been 6 in one hand, half dozen in the other. Over the last 4 weeks Moore has been getting about 20 snaps/gm - roughly 1/3 of the game. He's put up 5 catches in those 4 games. 11 targets for 70 yards.

He just...exists. He ain't bringing much to the party here, fellas.

I mean the production is very clearly underwhelming.

22% of the snaps with 12 targets. How much production are we expecting?

Again, I just cited his last 4 games. 1/3 of the snaps and 11 targets got him 5 catches.

That seems like solid production to you?

Because here's the frustrating part - no matter what - some folks would've had an excuse for him.

Give him 2 historically pedestrian veteran WRs in front of him and it's "Well he can't get any targets with those two guys in front of him!!" but setting aside that they ain't exactly Taylor and Rice here, take those two away and you'd have just pivoted. It would be "Well he's the only weapon they have, defenses can key on him!!!"

Right now it's "well Andy Reid has a really complicated scheme..." but if the Broncos had drafted him it'd be "Well what do you expect, Hackett ****ing sucks!"

Y'all just want him to be good soooooooo baaaaaaad that you won't just acknowledge whats in front of you. A 1/3 snap share yielding a sub 50% catch rate and less than 7 yards/target ain't good. At all.

Where was your bold prediction on him prior to the season? You really gonna say that by the bye week you would've expected him to be on pace for about 15 catches and 250 yards?

I suspect not. He's disappointed to this point.

It's not an excuse. Is it good production? No its not. But when you arent on the field and even when you are on the field you are constantly the 3rd or 4th read then what in the actual **** are you expecting?

All we can do is look at what he is doing and he seems to be doing his job but he's just not getting his number called yet.

Why the **** are we complaining? We knew coming into the season he was burried in the depth chart. We've got the #1 offense in the NFL and we are sitting here complaining about our current #4 WR? Dear god.

This is an embarrassing hill to die on 7 weeks into a rookies career playing for a coach you know slow plays rookies out of the gate.

It's. A. Football. Forum.

In the Skyy Moore thread.

Who's dying on a hill here?

But hey - GREAT work stating a case.

Great. Glad we got it cleared up that its a Skyy Moore thread. Now why do I have to keep hearing about rookie "X" on team "Y" doing "Z" in their offense?

Because you hand waive any direct discussion of what Moore is and is not doing here.

What is he not doing that's atypical for an Andy Reid system rookie?

You think your boy Pickens would be lighting shit on fire here? Not even Tyreek Hill was doing that and his snap counts are pretty much identical week for week through 7. It wasn't until week 8 that he saw a significant jump in playing time.

If only he ran the correct routes.

Look, I didn't like the pick, but only because I liked a different available receiver. I think he has the potential to be really good in this offense.

But he isn't currently better than Hardman. I still believe that Hardman has potential to be a very good receiver, and his speed can't be dismissed because he is a half step slower than Tyreek Hill, as it's still elite.

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Hardman is in year 4 of a pass catchers paradise. He's never going to reach his so called potential.

All we need is the pr guy to catch the ball and that's it. This is not 10 years ago. We don't need punt return yards.

Tyreek had 19 catches for 223 yards and 4 TDs by week 7 of his rookie year...

https://media.tenor.com/FLRwvJRnUj0A...ris-tucker.gif

One of the greatest athletes to ever play the position was straight ballin out to the tune of 30 YPG.

So why were you even comparing Skyy to Hill in the first place. Seems like you just keep deflecting everything. And that greatest athlete was a 5th round pick not expected to contribute much to the offense and was playing with Alex Smith.


Skyy is a 2nd rounder who is expected to contribute at least something playing with Patrick Mahomes. Even by the slow WR standards of the Reid offense he's behind right now.

I know you are dumb as ****, but I never compared them outside of their time spent on the field.

He basically brought a loss to the party in Indy. He wasn’t the only one that day but he definitely set the tone for the day.


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Lol hardman just a little slow developing

Potential has gotten a lot of coaches fired.

2 rushing TD's and a Passing TD against the best D in the NFl- does that not count?

Of course it counts. Let me know how his year stacks up when its over.

Cool just so you know that he out produced Skyy with Alex Smith and so did Hardman in just 3 weeks after he got his snaps cut his rookie year.

So far regardless of snap count, Skyy had been a disappointment based on what he was advertised as.

Stick with the gadget shit for him

Lol, now rookies are tone-setters on this team. Good God, i hope that never happens during the Andy/Pat era.

Well Hardman was far more productive. Hill, a 5th round pick, was far more productive. Conley was more productive.

But hey - he's got Robinson beat. Bully.

We've gone over this. Y'all have a 'yeah but' and an excuse for everything.

You convinced yourselves 1st that Moore was the 'best WR in the draft class' and then 2nd that he was actually doomed to fail afterall because of Andy.

The possibility that the 13th wide receiver drafted just isn't gonna be some turnkey ****ing stud just will not be considered.

Are we really going to act like Hill was a 5th round pick because of talent?

I am hoping we see Skyy her more reps in the coming weeks. I think he'll be just fine.

That's exactly what this little Skyy cabal has been doing since week 3.

'Yeah, but...'

Are you going to pretend he wasn't playing runningback?