Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Actually, no.

Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco

I thinks it's very clear that I have no respect for you. I wouldn't spit on you if a smoker accidentally set you on fire.

Originally Posted by Third Eye

Are you kidding? Print- Hearst and a couple other magnates, TV-The big networks own all the little ones, Radio- Clearchannel and a couple other magnates, Movies- The big studios own the little ones. Sure, you have your alternative press, but nobody gives them any real credence in this country.

Originally Posted by penchief

Actually, it was a huge part of my internship. So I do know quite a bit about the statistics and it is a proven fact that second hand smoke is a cancer causing agent. But citing the details has never been my tact. I would much rather people explain to me their own logic for their positions. I think that my logic for protecting the rights of non-smokers is much stronger than those who defend the rights of smokers to impose the negative health consequences of their choice onto others.

Originally Posted by Third Eye

Are you kidding? Print- Hearst and a couple other magnates, TV-The big networks own all the little ones, Radio- Clearchannel and a couple other magnates, Movies- The big studios own the little ones. Sure, you have your alternative press, but nobody gives them any real credence in this country.

Originally Posted by DJJasonp

Agreed....and quite frankly, if you are arguing this topic (smoking ban) with individuals who continue to disbelieve the overwhelming research and statistics as they relate to smoking and/or second-hand smoke....well, you're pretty much wasting your breath past that point.

Originally Posted by penchief

...When was the last time you actually said something meaningful?...

Originally Posted by penchief

Especially since it's as simple as taking it outside. I mean, com'n. How much of a whiner does a smoker have to be? Just step outside, smoke your cigarette, and shut the **** up. Okay?

Originally Posted by penguinz

Restaurants will not lose $ because of no smoking laws. They stand a good chance of increasing their $. Smokers tend to sit around and enjoy a smoke or 20 before, during and after food. The non-smokers tend to eat and then leave. This frees up the table for more customers.

Originally Posted by penguinz

Restaurants will not lose $ because of no smoking laws. They stand a good chance of increasing their $. Smokers tend to sit around and enjoy a smoke or 20 before, during and after food. The non-smokers tend to eat and then leave. This frees up the table for more customers.

Originally Posted by Spott

Exactly. The restaurant owners argued that same point when they passed the law state wide here about 5 years ago. The restaurants here are still doing fine and people that smoke just go outside to smoke. If anything, their business increased after the law took effect.

Originally Posted by Adept Havelock

No, it's pretty clear you don't get it.

To inform them? Sure. People need good information so they can make an informed decision for themselves.

Not at all. A knowledgable public will be able to decide if they want to purchase a product made with trans-fats, or it's alternative. It's called "voting with dollars". If enough of the public decides they don't want trans-fats, the company will adapt or die.

Yes, that's how we know "voting with dollars" works. The people that purchased those products pushed the business to adapt to their demands. Thanks for helping me make my case. :thumb:
Sure. Their customers were voting with their dollars to continue using trans-fats, after the public became aware of the health issues. Or the FDA and the companies were not honest in stating they used trans-fats, but that's a different matter (legal requirements of reporting ingredients). Some would argue we would be better off replacing the FDA with a private organization, but that's a discussion for another day.


I'd prefer One. I personally don't care to have laws passed and give the government expanded power just because a few people are too lazy to take responsibility for what they choose to eat.

You do. In this instance, you get information about the effect of Trans-Fats on your health, and (if complying with the FDA) knowledge of what companies use them. You can use that to make an informed decision for yourself, as can everyone else.

I know it's tough to decide these things for yourself, but nothing worthwhile is easy. ;)