I bought a Trek Dual Sport 8.3. Its geared towards being a road bike, but isn't afraid to go into some dirt. It is also infinitely more comfortable than a true road bike.

Now it is fixed.....

Counting the chickens way before they're hatched there.

He ****ed up along the interview process, and coaches might saw something that rubbed them the wrong way for him to drop like he did. Firing his agent, because he didn't get picked in the 1st is a red flag for maturity issues.

Then follow him to the jets board.

I'm not going back to qoute all of the posts I'll be adressing here.
I'm going to try to touch on the things I've read and want to respond to.

First, let's talk about Mark Sanchez.
As many, if not most, may know, I really liked him coming out.
I said at the time, however, that he was a guy that needed to sit for a year, at the least, and ideally should sit for two.
Unlike some (keg then, Dane now), I believe you still invest high first round picks on the guys that you believe have the potential to be outstanding QBs even if you don't believe they can be first year starters.
Passing on them is short sighted, IMO.
Sanchez is at a cross roads now.
He is either going to continue down the path to complete bust, or he will begin to live up to his potential.
Most are giving up on him.
But it was at this same point in his career that Drew Brees began to emerge.

It's all going to ride on maturity and work ethic for him now.
He has the physical tools.

Next, to Coogs primarily, I believe the thing that separates Joe Montana from Alex Smith is confidence.
The confidence in one's self and the confidence the players around them had/have in them.
Montana believed in his reads, in his ability to put the ball exactly where he had to, and his teamates believed.
I din't believe that Smith was ever going to earn that confidence from his team in San Francisco.
Just too many years of mediocrity or complete suckage there.
He needed a change of venue.
He's got that.
Now it's up to Andy Reid and staff to instill that self confidence.
I keep reading that Smith is a smart QB whose pre snap reads and adjustments are on Peyton Manning's level.
So what happens after the snap.
I'll tell you.
He doesn"t believe in his ability to put the ball where it needs to be in tight windows.
If Andy Reid can get Smith to trust himself, he will back up his claim that he can turn Smith into a HoF QB.
The problem is that I don't believe that's going to happen at this stage of Smith's career.

The book on Sanchez has been written, he isn't going to get good now.

That's ridiculous to even consider.

Alex Smith can get good, though, right?

You misrepresent me a bit. I was never convinced that Sanchez had the potential to be an outstanding quarterback at the pro level because he simply hadn't played enough to demonstrate it. Historically speaking it's enough of a risk to take a junior QB at all, much less a junior with a single year of experience. So in his specific case I did not believe the high degree of risk was worth what I considered to be a minimal chance at reward.

Contrast that with someone like Geno Smith, who had performed at a high level in a variety of offensive systems for three years...

And you're right, it is ironic that the book on Sanchez has been written, but apparently the book on Alex Smith has not.

Well one of them has been ascending and the other descending.

Don't act like you dont know the difference.

The butt-fumble play is possibly one of the worst in the history of QB play.

There is nothing ironic at all about it, not only has Alex picked up his play and Sanchez regressed, from all reports (and there have been many look them up) Sanchez isn't a hard worker and is not dedicated to the craft of being a QB, which never bodes well for a guy who needs to improve.
https://www.google.com/search?q=MArk...ient=firefox-a


The team with Sanchez just drafted another QB in the 2nd round, what does that tell you about their belief in him?

THat's kind of ridiculous. Alex Smith didn't "ascend" until late in his career, and even still basically started playing like... rookie year Mark Sanchez

I am curious about how Sanchez would do behind a different coach. I think he's been coddled WAY too much by Rex Ryan.

You are absolutely correct.

I think he can change and will.

There was too much baggage in SF.

The change will be good, watch and see.

Yeah, cause Alex Smith began his ascension well before his 4th season.





Oh.......wait.

2011, the team that Alex Smith plays for just tradede up in the second round to draft a QB,.
What does that tell you about Alex Smith?

Valid point. You think anyone would trade a 2nd for Sanchez right now?

Was there a team that showed any real interest in Alex Smith when he was available for free?

To answer your question the team that drafted him resigned him. He had had a rather unimpressive career to that point, I understand that.

Look we can agree to disagree here on both QB's.

I never liked Sanchez coming out of college & I thought Smith was doing what he needed to do and winning games in SF before he had the concussion so I see no reason to change my mind now he is a Chief.

I know Smith isn't Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, or Andrew Luck. I think he is good enough to take a team to a SB, he proved that even though he came up a drive short. Some may disagree with that, I dont care, I believe it.

I would love to have an elite QB, I dont see where Dorsey and Reid had a chance to get one so we are where we are and we have a shot IMO. I think part of the issue this off season is this team whether its just perceived or real has a lot of talented players in their prime to the back end of their prime and they didn't want to just burn the next few years on a developmental QB project which is what this draft had.

The key is that they continue to work to develop a guy long term via the draft, and not just sit on their hands and expect Smith is it.

I'll buy most of that.

Even though the Saints defense was not the best in the NFL, Smith made huge plays when he needed to, both throwing and running.

He opened 6-2 following the loss in the NFC Championship game. I'm not sure if I saw any of those 8 games, so I really can't comment on his performances early last season. Stats seem to indicate he was performing pretty well.

Since he seemed to be getting it... at about the same stage Brees did and where Sanchez is... I'm counting on the change of scenery... and all that goes with that... to put him over the top.

JMO

Maybe a small difference here, but Sanchez's original coaches just brought in a 2nd rounder. Smith's coaching staff was new to the team when Keap was brought in. Bit of a difference none the less.

The team that drafted Sanchez gave him a generous contract extension well before he had the opportunity to test free agency.

At the end of the day, neither of these moves mean a damn thing.

True but I would bet $$ had they not gave Sanchez that ridiculous contract he would already be gone in NY. They really tied their own hands with that move.

Also, he is a 28 year old who has been starting for 8 years.

Kaep is a 25 year who has never started a full season.

Not saying is everything, but it is a factor for sure.

Awesome! about 20 pages of tears to read through this a.m. How nice that many spend their offseasons yapping about Alex and keeping me entertained. Proceed! :popcorn:

It tells me that the 49ers are smart enough to do what all teams should be doing.
Your current starting QB Should never stop you from drafting a QB anywhere outside the first round.
Especially one with 1st round talent.
Im a huge advocate of drafting QBs. Every year.
No matter who your starter is.

Set your posts per page higher.
Fewer pages.

The difference is irrelevant.
Either way, a statement was made by the moves made in the draft, and. One could argue the stronger statement was made by the 9ers.

Kerry Collins' Super - Run

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Alex Smith = 2001 Kerry Collins in many ways. Up & down QB's, both of them, we will see what Alex Smith is gonna do soon, but he played better during the past couple seasons than Collins did during his SB season, so ya, with the right team, Smith can make a SB appearance imo.

The real difference between the two is that one of them is here, so he's going to be defended by some until the end of time, regardless of what he's proven himself to be on the field. That's really all there is to it.

And as I've said before, probably dozens of times by now, just to clarify: I don't hate Alex Smith. I hate the trade for Alex Smith. Giving up two second round picks for the guy was ridiculous.

And this whole idea of making him more "aggressive" is also ridiculous. His only palpable quality on gameday was that he didn't turn the ball over. If you take that away - which will happen if he's forced to be more aggressive - then he's basically nothing. He can't, physically, be Aaron Rodger or Drew Brees or Tom Brady any other top quarterback you want to name, because he doesn't have the arm to attack defenses. Not on the sidelines, and not down the field.

And that's precisely the reason I hate the trade: we gave up two seconds for a guy who can't physically do what Andy Reid's offense is going to ask him to do. It doesn't have anything to do with who else was available. It doesn't have anything to do with who I liked in the draft. It only ever had anything to do with Alex Smith himself. He simply doesn't fit.

All along it's looked to me like a situation where a coach fell in love with a guy for whatever reason, despite all logic and reason, and because Dorsey is his buddy, instead of fighting him on it like you would hope a GM would, he not only gave Reid what he wanted, he paid too much for it.

That's, to me, a disappointing first step. It reads like a repeat of 2001 and Trent Green. It reads like a repeat of 2009 and Matt Cassel.

I just hope it ends up closer to Green...

And I really hope that in the end Alex Smith does elevate his game and do things he's never done before at any level, college or pro. Because I don't want to be "right". I just want the team to win. Which is why I'm not thrilled, because this move does not strike me as one conducive to that.

I believe only the Chiefs were willing to give up a second round draft pick for Alex Smith. Our top of the third round would have trump any other offer imo. We could have gave up much less to get Alex Smith. Now we risk giving up a second round pick in next years draft just by going 8-8. This hurts our chances to draft a QB prospect that we can build a team around.



Nope I don't see any thing different than what Carl Pioli would have done.

Double standard much?

In short, confidence is no longer an issue for Smith.

Everything you said here may have been remotely believable prior to 2011... but not since. At this point, pretty much everything you stated is untrue.

Alex really changed in the 2nd half of 2010. He finally discarded all the poor coaching advice and started believing in himself... as did the players around him. Most of the key players like Justin Smith, Vernon Davis, Frank Gore, Joe Staley, and Patrick Willis were vocal in their belief. This was very clear to those paying attention. Stats are not everything... but 2.5 yrs ago, his QBR jumped up about 20 points into the 90's and stayed that way.. till last year, where it went further up.

It's a lame argument. The only QB under contract for us was... David Carr... that's it. We had nothing. Alex wasn't even signed... only Carr.. who Harbaugh had a history of not liking.

Plus, even if Alex was under contract... if he is so terrible, then why wait till rd 2 to get Kaep? Why wouldn't he just select him in rd 1?

Why would Harbaugh even try so hard to keep Alex in SF in the 2011 offseason?

QBr is about as useful as a $50 monopoly bill in a cat housed.

He takes a lot of sacks and checks down so much because he lacks confidence in his ability.

And I believe the bullshit players say about as much as I believe the bullshit spewed in most of your posts.

Then you should probably ask yourself as a KC fan... why are you so determined to believe what you want to believe? Why is it important for you to deflect a truth that should bring you optimism as a KC fan? You just enjoy being miserably negative? or are you one of those that feels such shame in believing but ending up disappointed? so it's better to just stay negative?

Did a post of mine give you that impression?
Im not recalling which it would be.

I think that is one of the more fair and balanced assessments of ASmith from a detractor on this board.

Why should Chiefs fans be happy with mediocrity? I don't understand this line of thinking at all that we should be happy to get a mediocre quarterback. Especially after the crappy seasons we have had and that we haven't won a playoff game in 20 years using the same philosophy.

We shouldn't be happy & we should be demanding better product. That was the whole point of SOC was to demand better product. We are just being sold a bill of goods on an old junk car. Show me the car fax & it would show the car we are getting was in a car wreck. They just polished it up for resale.

If I was determined to believe what I want to believe, my posts would be entirely different in nature.

I want to believe that Andy Reid is the right choice to coach this team.
I want to believe that Alex Smith was thbe right choice at QB, and that Andy Reid. Can help him to ascend to the next level.

I post what I believe, not what I am determined to believe.

I agree. And though I am not well versed in Smith's early years with the 49ers, from this...

http://www.pro-football-reference.co.../gamelog/2005/

...it appears Smith may have had a similar beginning to his career as Sanchez. By that, I mean he may have been thrust into the starting lineup a bit before he was ready. Maybe being allowed to sit a year or two would have helped with his development as an NFL QB as well.

BUT... it does appear that Smith's arrow is pointing up as opposed to many other QB's who have been thrown out there too early. Just how steep that arrow is pointing is what remains to be seen.

Mainly, I'm not understanding this belief that Alex is mediocre. Elite? No. I think it's fair to believe he isn't elite. But mediocre or less? No. That conclusion is simply not supported by his last 38 games.

Why am I looking at his last 38 games and not lumping in his full career? Convenience? No. It's focusing on trends. What a player was or what he did in the distant past isn't important. What's important is where a player is now and what he has done lately. I'm not cherry picking games here and there. I'm regarding the last 2.5 years of performance. That's a pretty fair sized sample to make judgement on.

People want to point out that Alex had strong coaching and teams lately... and that is true. Most successful QBs developed also have or have had these benefits.. so why can't Alex?

What KC got is a very solid QB. Sounds like some KC fans are just bitching because they didn't get an elite QB right off the bat. What chance did they really have of doing that in this offseason anyway? So what you got is a very solid QB that just might surprise you and make you playoff contenders. Sure, he can't do it alone. KC will have to have a strong team and competent coaching around him to do that this season... just as most of the QBs would need.

That was a completely different league where smash mouth football was en vogue, and that was acceptable because offenses were more west coast oriented, not spread out, and rules on pass interference were stricter.

In the new NFL, you will likely have a few playoff games during a Super Bowl run where you HAVE to put up a lot of points.

At this point, there's no question that Alex should have stayed on the bench for a year or two. They took this 20 yr old kid from an Urban Meyer spread and threw him into a WCO on one of the most talent-starved... coach-starved teams in history. McCarthy may have been the OC, but it was his first OC gig. He wasn't good starting out, and didn't have much to work with.

Year 2.. Alex had a solid year, considering the talent and coaching being flawed. Norv Turner just arrived as OC and things were looking up.. but still needed to evolve from their yr 1. Alex put up better numbers than Troy Aikman did in his 2nd year... and Aikman had strong coaching and a much stronger team around him.

Anyway, that's old news.

Thanks. It's not old news to me.

It just kind of supports the whole Sanchez debate. Sent out too early. Struggled. Comes a point where they make it or don't. Smith at that point... the last 38 games he played... appears to have gotten it.

Now he just needs to take it to the next level. Very few QB's get to the playoffs their first time and go straight to the Super Bowl. Some do. But many of the all time greats didn't get it done on their first attempt.

Did you say the same with regards to Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith?

I think at times he can play above mediocre but reality is he is another retread QB that has struggled much of his career and only last couple of years made himself look good mostly by handing the ball off to Frank Gore and play action pass. They dominated with a running game, take that away and how good was Alex Smith?

As long as Alex can make the neccesary plays to win the game I dont give a rats ass how it happens.

Milk has often stated stats are overrated, and I agree because all games are not played in a vacuum. There are so many variables that go into the end stats including performance or non performance of teammates.

One thing I think is Alex Smith has the ability to win some games, he is not going to carry the team except for maybe a game or 2 here and there in a season, but there are very few QB's who can, maybe 3 or 4 just carry an offense for a season. I would love to have one of those guys but its not been an option this off-season.

One of the biggest misnomers on CP is the belief there are around 15 franchise type QB's who can carry their team and its simply not true.

There are 4-5 elite and then the separation between #6 and around #15 is not that great.

From there out it takes a well balanced and equipped team.

There's a lot of truth in the positive Alex Smith posts.

He is really good at presnap reads and adjustments, and he protects the football as well as anyone.
He has the physical tools to play at a Trent Green level, and that is good enough to compere for a SB.

His problem is mental.

He has the physical ability to attack the sidelines and stretch the defense over the top, but he's afraid of making a mistake.

That results in check downs and sacks.

Can Reid get him over that fear and lack of confidence?

I'm skeptical, but it is not out of the question.

Fun discussion this morning fellas. Nice to have a civil football discussion. Got to go to work though.

Later!

The difference between a SB QB and a non SB QB is the confidence to take advantage of opportunities.

Joe Flacco is not elite, but that confidence is what separates him from Smith.

Andy Reid is going ask him to throw the ball over 25 times a game and that is something Alex Smith is not accustom too. I don't care who you are if your not adapt to that after 8 years I think it's going to back fire. That is my opinion. I think you are right in many ways but Alex Smith does not have a put it on my shoulders experience. I want to see him matriculate the ball with out having to rely on the run game. It's not something he is good at. I think the more he throws the ball the more we will see his flaws. He is good at times but it is about confidence. I think Andy Reid is good at building confidence but once he starts getting hit by being exposed extra in a game I think that confidence will go out the window.

I couldn't agree more. Flacco got hot and I htink a big part of his confidence was his receivers making ridiculous plays.

But when your receivers do that it should give you the confidence to chuck it up and let them make plays and not worry about making a mistake.

I think Harbough is the exact opposite type of a coach in that aspect compared to Reid. Andy will let him **** up every now and again without Smith feeling like he is going to get railed.

Harbough let CK take risks because he is enough of an athletic freak to make up for it later. That being said CK's mistakes in the PO and SB were damn near fatal and in the end cost them.

Alex is just what this team needs already! Haven't you heard? He's good enough! Well, at least "good enough for KC".

Same ol', same ol'.

You guys read stats and then just run with it. Clay pointed this out some time back and now its some wall that cant be climbed.

How many times a game did Alex throw it at Oregon? 23.5 avg all said and done and over 25 a game his last season.

It all goes back to what offense you are running and how things are going.

I think people are saying that after his shoulder injury he doesn't have the stamina in the arm.

College stats can't challenge that theory
Posted via Mobile Device

We will see if Andy Reid buys into CP's theory.

We will.

Buying in doesn't disprove though. Reid can try. Smith will have to execute the plan.
Posted via Mobile Device

If AS is anything other than a stop-gap to help rebuild franchise credibility, we are ****ed.

Again.

I'm not sure why the 25 pass number is being brought up. Andy Reid isn't going to ask him to throw it more than 25 times a game. He's going to ask him to throw it more than 35 times a game.

Very true could not be more accurate.

I do not believe any of his previous coaches, expect maybe Norv wanted him to take any chances.

Nolan and Dingleberry just did not have the ability get the most out of there players.

A prime example is Vernon Davis, look at him under those and now.

The change is just what AS needed.

How does anyone know what Andy is going to ask Alex to do?

Past tendencies
Posted via Mobile Device

Deductive reasoning?

Donovan McNabb

1999 18 attempts/game
2000 36 attempts/game
2001 31 attempts/game
2002 36 attempts/game
2003 30 attempts/game
2004 31 attempts/game
2005 40 attempts/game
2006 32 attempts/game
2007 34 attempts/game
2008 36 attempts/game
2009 32 attempts/game

Michael Vick

2010 31 attempts/game
2011 32 attempts/game
2012 35 attempts/game

What about AJ Feely and Jeff Garcia?

Kinda like that apology for what you said...oops.

Character...yeah, sure Dane.

Sure would be nice.

It's been years since I've been excited about this team and wTching Chiefs football.

I doubt that...but it's very possible.

Vick and Foles combined for 616 pass attempts last year.

That breaks down to 38.5 per game

Then you'd have to find how far the ball traveled through air on average to really get a true idea.

I don't believe that Reid is going to ask the same of Smith that he asked of McNabb or Vick, or Kolb, or Garcia.

I'm fairly certain he'll ask for 30 or 35 attempts.

They just won't be the same passes.

23.5 for Garcia, who was only there one season and started only eight games.

Couldn't find the stats for feely
Posted via Mobile Device

:clap:

ESPN splits breaks down a quarterbacks passes into distance traveled in the air.

Not sure how far back they started doing that, though.

are you going to ask a 30 year old injury prone QB to do something he's never done in his 8 seasons in the NFL?

I agree that a potential Franchise QB is available in the first round, you take him. But sitting him for a year is absurd in this day and age.

And just to set the record straight, I lobbied for Brees in 2001. I lobbied taken Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford and Mark Sanchez while guys like Cam Newton, RGIII and Luck would have been no-brainers. I would have been very happy with Ryan Tannehill. So let's not turn this into "Well, Dane doesn't believe in first round QB", because that's nonsense.

In 2013, none of the QB prospects where rated nearly as high as those I mentioned and the NFL draft reflected that notion. NFL teams cannot simply waste a draft choice on a QB, just because it's a QB and a position of need.

Make it 30. Either way, it won't be 25. So we're talking an additional 80-100 passes over a full season. Minimum.

Unless the theory is that they traded two 2nd round picks for a guy they don't believe can throw the ball the way that Reid teams traditionally do.

(As the argument goes, Reid must see something in Alex Smith on one hand, but on the other, Reid won't ask him to throw as much as he has in nearly every other year he's been a coach?

Can't have it both ways....)

With all due respect, you're entering GoChiefs territory in terms of creating a False Narrative.

1. Quarterback Rating is irrelevant.
2. Chiefs send six players to the Pro Bowl, you say "Worthless".
3. Alex Smith beat the Saints for a playoff win "Saints defense sucks".
4. Alex Smith led his team to the NFC Championship Game. "Why didn't he win it?".
5. Alex Smith was a fumble away from the Super Bowl: "He was terrible on 3rd downs".
6. Alex Smith was 18 of 19 in his last game: "QBR is worthless".
7. Alex Smith led his team to 18 victories in the past 18 months of play "Smith was along for the ride".

So, if QBR is worthless, Pro Bowls are worthless and wins are worthless, do you mind explaining how anyone can quantify a player's worthiness?

I really don't get into this debate about Geno, or Sanchez for that matter.

But I just can not let this go without comment.

I agee with Clayton (I believe he was the one that mentioned it) that QBs were looked at in a different light in this draft than they were before last year's draft.

There is no way in hell Sam Bradford goes #1 overall in this draft, after last year.

As to the question of sitting, we'll never agree.

As to the

You chastise me for stating that Andy Reid and John Dorsey were the best possible hires the Chiefs could have made in 2013, yet when asked "Who you have hired instead?", you avoid answering and make a lame response.

You look more and more foolish with each post.

So, Hank Stram was a poor hire? Marv Levy was a poor hire? Marty Schottenheimer was a poor hire? Dick Vermiel was a poor hire?

I would not have hired Herm, Haley or Crennel. But Herm did have usefulness, as he collaborated with others in the front office to assist in some of the best drafts in recent memory. Haley was an awful hire IMO and while I had "hope", based on Crennel's work with the team at the end of the 2011 season, he was even worse. I hated Pioli before he was even hired.

But regardless, Andy Reid and John Dorsey are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE to Pioli and Haley/Crennel. The Alex Smith trade was MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE to the Trent Green or Matt Cassel trade.

But thanks for admitting that you don't know anything about the NFL, its coaches and players because anyone with a brain that didn't know that before, certainly knows it now.

Owners, GM's, coaches and fans want results. It's impossible to develop a QB in a vacuum today. There are not only contractual issues but issue with players, whether it's a great running back or a receiver or even a safety. Everyone in the NFL wants to win now. Players are currently lobbying Sanchez over Smith in New York because they don't want to lose valuable years off of their careers in order to develop a guy.

The likelihood of an NFL team selecting a QB in the top five (and probably top three) and sitting him for a year is zero percent. Teams choosing in the Top Five are choosing there for a reason and they sure as hell don't have a year or two to develop a player when a player that can immediately step in and start is available.

With all due respect, it's "Old School" thinking and that game has passed by.

You've known me on this forum for how many years?
I've been consistent in my disdain for stats without the context of watching.

That QBR suggests that Alex Smith is more than he is.

The last two years he has been nothing more than an efficient game manager.

Sure it is. Keep telling yourself that.

Why don't you tell us who they should have hired?