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Athlon Sports QB Power Rankings (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=261142)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Tattoo (Post 8725648)

I use to love the play action pass play especially when it was Steve Deberg hiding the ball from the cameras and they continue to show the RB plow into the defense instead of him throwing it deep for a TD. Over the years it seams to me that the best QBs with high scoring offense are run out of the shotgun. I've grown to like watching QBs out of the shotgun and doing what they do best with running an offense now even more.

I liked Steve Deberg.
He was a tough SOB.

But the reality is, he was really a very limited QB whose one and only real talent was the play action fake.

People either don't know, or don't remember if they are old enough, just how good Lenny's play action fake was.

He was the best at it.
But he also had real talent as a QB to match that.

That's the kind of lines I'm thinking. I want a QB that is efficient with the football has total comand of the offense and doesn't have to rely on the running game to excel. That all just seems too much to ask for as a Chiefs fan pffft.

Tell me who Marino, Peyton Manning or Tom Brady the best at running an efficient offense out of the shotgun?

I think Stanzi would be great at running an offense out of the shotgun formation & give him field vision for quicker decision making. I think that's what the shotgun can do for him to help him out as of right now starting out & build from there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Tattoo (Post 8725672)

Please tell me you didn't just compare Stanzi to those three.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowser (Post 8725781)

Please tell me you didn't just compare Stanzi to those three.

Actually, he didn't.
Just said that he would like to see Stanzi run a lot out of shotgun because it would help him make faster reads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGM (Post 8725358)

There are 4-5 new playoff teams every year. Things never go as "last year" did. Never.

Agreed. I see us losing to teams like Oakland, Tampa Bay, Carolina and San Diego, who did not make the playoffs a year ago. Hell, maybe even Buffalo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad King (Post 8726273)

Agreed. I see us losing to teams like Oakland, Tampa Bay, Carolina and San Diego, who did not make the playoffs a year ago. Hell, maybe even Buffalo.

Yeah,
Buffalo made huge strides on their Defense during the offseason.
if Fitz plays decent, the Chiefs will lose to the Bills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 8725465)

There's this perception that Warner didn't play all that well for the Giants.

That's a myth.

He was a bad fit for thier system, and the Giant fans were antsy to see Eli play, but Warner started 9 or 10 games and put up numbers in those games comparable to what he put up for the Cardinals.
.

I would like if I may, change one or two perceptions in your story regarding Kurt Warner and the N.Y. Giants.

In 2004, then Giants GM Ernie Accorsi was unable to agree on terms with San Diego's rookie GM before the draft, the Giants had to watch the Chargers take Eli Manning with the first pick in the draft. Everybody knew that the Chargers wanted Phil Rivers and that Accosi coveted Eli. Archie and Eli had already made it clear they wanted the Giants, not the Chargers. Smith the Chargers GM, wanted Osi Umenyiora added to the Giants offer before the draft, a demand the Giants saw as a deal breaker.

Unable to agree on terms of a trade with San Diego during the draft, Accorsi then drafted Phil Rivers with the Giants fourth round pick. But before the night was over, the Giants and Chargers agreed to make the quarterback trade when Smith dropped his demand for Osi. The Giants gave up a third round pick (2004), and first and fifth round picks in 2005.

When Eli became quarterback of the Giants, Kerry Collins, in the final year of his contract knew that his days were numbered. The Giants released Collins who was unhappy with a backup role and signed veteran quarterback Kurt Warner to help groom Eli as their future starter. At the time, Dick Vermeil was head coach of the K.C. Chiefs and had a ring with Super Bowl winner and MVP Kurt Warner in St. Louis. Coach Vermeil expressed his support and said, "Warner was the right quarterback to tutor Eli for the Giants."

Eli took over for Kurt in game 11 of the 2004 season.

The excerpt included here explains why Couch Coughlin made the change:

Quote:

Q: When did you make the decision to start Eli?
Coughlin: Is that important, really? Maybe it was on the couch at 3 a.m. this morning, maybe. Maybe that was it.

The previous Sunday the Giants, then 5-3 and still hopeful, were stifled by a bad team, the Arizona Cardinals. Warner was sacked six times, several times on first and second down, by a previously undistinguished Cardinals defensive line. The sports pages the next day -- with a couple of interesting exceptions -- vilified the Giants' offensive line. How could these bums allow a bunch of mediocrities to sack a former N.F.L. M.V.P. six times in a single game?

Anyone who watched the game on TV might well had come to the same conclusion: these fellows on the Giants line appeared to be perfectly incompetent. Poor Warner was doing all he could. But Coughlin wasn't sure. He went into the office in the wee hours of the morning and studied the game tapes. The general manager, Ernie Accorsi, was already there when Coughlin arrived; he had spent the night on the maroon leatherette sofa in his office. At a decent hour, Coughlin found Accorsi and asked, ''Have you seen the tape?'' Coughlin had timed every pass play -- all 37 of them -- and discovered that 30 times Warner held the ball for 3.8 seconds or more. (Depending on how many steps the quarterback drops back to pass, 1.2 to 3 seconds is considered the norm.) Often Giants receivers were open and Warner wasn't seeing them. The quarterback was more to blame for the sacks than the people assigned to protect him.

And one thing Coughlin had noticed in practice about Eli Manning was that, unlike most rookie quarterbacks, he made decisions quickly and got the ball away before the defense could kill him.

In April 2004, The New York Times Magazine published an issue featuring a cover story titled "The Eli-Experiment" by Michael Lewis. As a frequent contributor to The New York Times, one of his bestselling books (that I know of), is titled "Moneyball."

Sources: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/19/ma...19MANNING.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/...ticle-1.602745

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan (Post 8726421)

Actually, this is why I said that Warner was not a good fit for the play action system that the Giants employed.

He doesn't work well with his back to the defense.

Warner is a HoFer, but he's also a system QB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 8726434)

Thanks, good point.

I highly recommend you read this story - great writing and storytelling. Love the Unitas stories, etc.

"The Eli-Experiment touches on some very interesting topics. A great story - not only about Eli Manning.

Excerpt: On Wonderlic

Quote:

The test has been used by N.F.L. teams for decades, but the emphasis placed on it has grown with the complexity of the game.

By all the tests that N.F.L. scouts use to measure college quarterbacks, Eli Manning compared favorably to his famous older brother. And yet the decision to take him with the first pick, and pay him great sums of money, was nevertheless regarded by many inside the N.F.L. as fantastically risky.

A few general managers, and coaches, would have refused to make it. When the quarterbacks arrived at the 2003 N.F.L. combine -- where the teams put the most highly touted prospects though their paces -- the coach of the Carolina Panthers, John Fox, simply walked out. He took a principled stand against spending money and draft picks on a quarterback.

No N.F.L. coach will say this, but a few actually build their teams on the principle that the quarterback need not be especially gifted, because he doesn't need to be terribly important. You don't need a god out there; you don't need Joe Montana or John Elway or Peyton Manning. All you need is one very smart coaching staff and a quarterback who won't mess up their intricate plans. Spend less of your money on a quarterback and you have more to spend on the people around him. Ask them to do more, and the quarterback to do less.

The coaches who approach the game this way -- Fox, Brian Billick of Baltimore, Bill Cowher of Pittsburgh, Bill Parcells of Dallas, Bill Belichick of New England -- define one end of the N.F.L.'s managerial spectrum: the end that argues that it's never worth the risk to pay a fortune to a quarterback unproved in the pros. Ernie Accorsi might well define the other. ''There is no other position in team sports as important as the quarterback,'' he says. ''A great quarterback, unlike a great running back, cannot be stopped. And if you have a great one, you're never out of it. He walks on the bus and the whole team sees him and thinks, We have a chance.'' The problem, from Accorsi's point of view, is finding the great quarterback.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/19/ma...19MANNING.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan (Post 8726486)

I'll give it a looksee when I have some real time to spend on it.

But how the hell do you remove the ads that block each page?

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 8726509)

I'll give it a looksee when I have some real time to spend on it.

But how the hell do you remove the ads that block each page?

I might have to send you the entire 10 pages via PM.

Must be behind the paywall.

Sorry, I forgot about the paywall.