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2010 Kansas City Royals Repository thread (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=221199)

So....

Which team is closer to a championship, Chiefs or Royals?

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth (Post 7345210)

So....

Which team is closer to a championship, Chiefs or Royals?

Royals.

DM turned down the Yankees offer for Soria according to this story:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba..._for_bria.html

Quote:

Royals refusal to listen to offers for Joakim Soria adds to winter woes for Brian Cashman, Yankees

Bill Madden
Saturday, January 8th 2011, 8:42 PM

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/20...akim_soria.jpg
Diaz/AP
The Yankees have had no luck so far prying closer Joakim Soria from Kansas City Royals

So far it's been a very trying and empty winter for Brian Cashman and the Yankees, between the futile pursuit of Cliff Lee, the adamant unavailability of Seattle's "King Felix" Hernandez and Andy Pettitte's annual ongoing "Hamlet" act. There remain gaping holes in the Yankee pitching staff, both in the starting rotation and the set-up relief corps, where people seem to have forgotten how Kerry Wood saved their season last year.

Having struck out everywhere in his quest to land a frontline starter, Cashman has since sought to strengthen the staff from the back end, only to run into another stonewall with Kansas City Royals GM Dayton Moore's refusal to consider offers for his closer Joakim Soria.

Moore's "no way" stance on Soria - who recently said he would waive his no-trade clause and approve a deal to the Yankees - is puzzling. When Moore traded Royals ace Zack Greinke to the Milwaukee Brewers last month for four prospects, none of which was considered exceptional, he said this was precisely the kind of deal he needed to be making as he continues to stock the K.C. farm system with a bumper crop of talent for delivery by 2014.

Indeed, the Royals, with power hitting first baseman Eric Hosmer, third baseman Mike Moustakas and three premium lefthanded starting pitching prospects in John Lamb, Mike Montgomery and Danny Duffy, are primed to become a real force in the AL Central two years down the road with one of the top-rated farm systems in baseball. But they're not going to contend this year, nor are they likely to in 2012 either, which is why Greinke wanted out.

The deal Moore made with Milwaukee for Greinke netted shortstop Alcides Escobar, who flopped with the bat and was a big disappointment with the Brewers last year; Lorenzo Cain, a corner outfielder with excellent speed and limited power who's said to still be very green; Jeremy Jeffress, a hard-throwing reliever whose progress has been marred by three positive drug tests in the minors, and righty Jake Odorizzi, the Brewers' top starting pitching prospect who is only 20 and at least two years away.

It was not exactly the "blue chip" haul Moore had hoped to make when he put Greinke on the market, as none of the players he obtained figures to have any impact for this season or even 2012. Which is why Moore's disinclination to trade Soria to the Yankees for a much more substantial package seems very shortsighted. In Hosner and Moustakas, the Royals figure to be set at first and third and 3-4 in the lineup for years to come - once they arrive.

But as Moore has acknowledged, they still need a catcher and middle infielders and, for Soria, who has a 2.01 ERA, 132 saves and 281 strikeouts in 255 innings for his first four seasons in the big leagues, the Yankees are willing to part with their top prospect, Jesus Montero, the power-hitting catcher they initially had penciled in to take over for Jorge Posada this season before signing Russell Martin as veteran insurance, and Eduardo Nunez, the shortstop/second baseman they refused to include in the package for Lee that scuttled that deal with Seattle last summer.

The Yankees envisioned the 26-year-old Soria as the natural successor to Mariano Rivera, which is why they were willing to part with Montero and Nunez. Plus, in Austin Romine scouts agree they have a catcher almost as close to being ready as Montero with better overall defensive and pitcher-handling skills.

But even though he has traded away his best starting pitcher, Moore says he wants to hold onto Soria, who is signed to a club-friendly contract with escalating salaries of $3 million to 4 million the next two years and options of $6-8-8.75 million through 2014. Holding on to him would seem like a waste, especially since his value couldn't be higher and the Royals won't likely be contending for another couple of years.

Said one AL exec: "It's a lot easier finding closers than it is power-hitting catchers. Dayton's got a chance here to fill two huge needs - catcher and shortstop - to complement that bumper crop of talent he's got coming.

Why wouldn't you do that?"

Meanwhile, with Soria also apparently not an option for them, the Yankees are monitoring the crumbling Rafael Soriano market. The tip-off that the ex-Tampa Bay Rays closer has no offers, despite his AL-leading 45 saves last season, was the Avenging Agent Scott Boras' pronouncement the other day that his client would accept a set-up role with only the Yankees.

It may have to be as no club was willing to go anywhere near Boras' original asking price of five years at $16 million-per. That price has since dropped considerably as potential well-heeled suitors such as the Angels, White Sox, Texas Rangers and Detroit Tigers filled their bullpen needs elsewhere. The word is out on Soriano, whose refusal to take the ball on occasion or pitch more than one inning incurred the wrath of Rays manager Joe Maddon.

Cashman, who has been burned too often on big-money contracts to set-up relievers in the past (Steve Karsay, Kyle Farnsworth, Damaso Marte) is also loathe to give up a No. 1 draft pick for Soriano, who's a Type A free agent. He said flat out Friday he won't do it. But if Pettitte really does retire and the price is right for Soriano, and Cashman can limit his commitment to two years, he may be forced to swallow hard and sign him anyway - for the staff's sake.

What the Yankees really need, however, is for Moore to come to his senses about next year and 2012 and set himself up with a power-packed lineup for 2013 and beyond.

RAYS OF HOPE
On the surface, the Rays' trade of Matt Garza to the Cubs appears to be the culmination of their promised payroll slashing and a "give-up" on the 2011 season. But after all the inspired deals he has made in recent years, beginning with the one in which he got Garza in the first place from the Twins - along with shortstop Jason Bartlett - that wound up winning a pennant for the Rays, GM Andrew Friedman should not be underestimated.

For, unlike Moore in the Greinke deal, Friedman got four bona fide prospects who, scouts agree, are all likely to make it to the majors. The two primary prospects are righthander Chris Archer, who was 15-3 with a 2.36 ERA at High A and AA combined last year and Korean-born shortstop Hak Ju-Lee, a defensive whiz who hit .282 with 32 steals at Class A Peoria. The other two prospects, Robinson Chirinos, a catcher who hit .326 with a .416 OBP, 18 homers and just 43 strikeouts at AA and AAA, and outfielder Brandon Guyer, who hit .344 with 13 homers and 30 steals at Double A, are just about major-league ready.

And while Garza was a solid No. 2 starter for the Rays, their rotation of David Price, Wade Davis, James Shields, Jeff Niemann and Jeremy Hellickson is still potentially very formidable and five deep - which is more than the Yankees can say at the moment.

If the Yankees offered Montero and Nunez for Soria, why the hell wouldn't we accept that. Accept that and run.

LMAO Gotta love the Yankee arrogance. How much you want to bet the "AL Exec" is a Yankee executive. That's just great... "You should be so grateful that we are considering trading our super prized prospect to you for the closer you have locked up to a great deal til mid-decade, even though we have a better catcher coming up anyway. You should be begging us to make this deal"

Meanwhile, none of the guys we got for Greinke are even going to have an impact by 2012, even though two and maybe three of them might see the majors this year, if not out of spring training. Somebody hit this guy in the face with the stupid shovel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by doomy3 (Post 7345517)

If the Yankees offered Montero and Nunez for Soria, why the hell wouldn't we accept that. Accept that and run.

The Yankees could use a talented young catcher. I'm guessing that Montero doesn't have much of a chance of sticking behind the plate. If that's the case, where does he play in KC?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla (Post 7345536)

The Yankees could use a talented young catcher. I'm guessing that Montero doesn't have much of a chance of sticking behind the plate. If that's the case, where does he play in KC?

I'd move Butler for an outfielder or pitcher and plug Montero in at DH if that's the case. He has an impact bat.

Found this about the Royals Farm System:

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/...ystem-rankings

Quote:

John Sickels Farm System Rankings

John Sickels is now done with all of his rankings.I have updated the values through his most recent "Important Grade Changes" post, as well as included the prospects from the Cubs/Rays trade.

How I went about creating the data
I went through each system that John graded and took down the grade for both hitters and pitchers. Why did I do that? Well, hitters and pitchers have different values. The value’s that I used were the ones first identified by Victor Wang in an article at The Hardball Times. The guys at Beyond The Box Score took that and made it into a monetary value.

Here is what the average prospect was worth who fell in these ranges:

<TABLE border=1 width=314><TBODY><TR><TD>Top 10 hitting prospects</TD><TD>$32.5M</TD></TR><TR><TD>Top 11-25 hitters</TD><TD>$22.3</TD></TR><TR><TD>Top 26-50 hitters</TD><TD>$20.8</TD></TR><TR><TD>Top 51-75 hitters</TD><TD>$12.6</TD></TR><TR><TD>Top 76-100 hitters</TD><TD>$11.1</TD></TR><TR><TD>Top 10 pitching prospects</TD><TD>$13.5</TD></TR><TR><TD>Top 11-25 pitchers</TD><TD>$14.2</TD></TR><TR><TD>Top 26-50 pitchers</TD><TD>$14.2</TD></TR><TR><TD>Top 51-75 pitchers</TD><TD>$10.8</TD></TR><TR><TD>Top 76-100 pitchers</TD><TD>$8.7</TD></TR><TR><TD>Grade B pitchers (as graded by Sickels)</TD><TD>$6.5</TD></TR><TR><TD>Grade B hitters</TD><TD>$4.9</TD></TR><TR><TD>Grade C pitchers 22 or younger</TD><TD>$1.9</TD></TR><TR><TD>Grade C pitchers 23 or older</TD><TD>$1.3</TD></TR><TR><TD>Grade C hitters 22 or younger</TD><TD>$0.62</TD></TR><TR><TD>Grade C hitters 23 or older</TD><TD>$0.45</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Now I did have to make some adjustments. As we can see, Pitching prospects in the 11-50 range tend to be more valuable than those in the Top 10. Since that doesn’t actually make much sense, I made every pitcher graded as a B+ or better worth the same "average" value of 14.2M.

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=309><TBODY><TR height=20><TD height=20 width=19></TD><TD width=50>Team</TD><TD width=40>A</TD><TD width=40>A-</TD><TD width=40>B+</TD><TD width=40>B</TD><TD width=40>B-</TD><TD width=40>C+</TD></TR><TR height=20><TD height=20>H</TD><TD>Value</TD><TD>32.5</TD><TD>22.3</TD><TD>20.8</TD><TD>12.6</TD><TD>4.9</TD><TD>0.88</TD></TR><TR height=20><TD height=20>P</TD><TD>Value</TD><TD>14.2</TD><TD>14.2</TD><TD>14.2</TD><TD>9.8</TD><TD>6.5</TD><TD>2.6</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

For the C+ guys I had to change a little. I didn’t go through the 268 players who were graded C+ to find the age. So what I did was take the average C grade (split the difference between the two grades). That made 1.6 for pitchers and 0.54 for hitters.I used the weighting for the B grade prospects to wind up with the C+ being worth the same for a C as the B+ was for the B grades. Now that we had the value for each type of prospect, I just ran the numbers for the different teams. One thing to note, I didn’t include the grade C prospects because not all of the C prospects made each list, so the data was left out because it was incomplete.

Here are the results:
http://redsminorleagues.com/wp-conte...mrankings4.gif

Here is a representation of how each team’s overall value broke down by Pitchers and Hitters value:
http://redsminorleagues.com/wp-conte...rankings23.gif

I guess maybe I get concerned because sometimes Yankee prospects are overhyped. We'll see. It would make our farm system maybe the most ridiculous group ever. But it would create a logjam where someone eventually would have to go. Not sure I'd want to trade Soria for someone we'd end up putting at 1B/DH... although if he hit 40 HR's a year I guess I wouldn't mind as much.

wtf? now the target year is 2014????

What happened to '12.... JFC

http://www.mynetimages.com/b2da1c7d.gif

More about the Royals Farm System:

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2010/...pects-for-2011

Quote:

Kansas City Royals Top 20 Prospects for 2011

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/profile_ima.../bert_tiny.jpg by John Sickels on Jan 9, 2011 3:24 PM EST

Kansas City Royals Top 20 Prospects for 2011

UPDATED January 9, 2011

The list and grades are a blending of present performance and long-term potential. Full reports on all of players can be found in the 2011 Baseball Prospect Book. We are now taking pre-orders. Order early and order often!

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/images/blog...e.v5e9d7f1.jpg
QUICK PRIMER ON GRADE MEANINGS:
Grade A prospects are the elite. They have a good chance of becoming stars or superstars. Almost all Grade A prospects develop into major league regulars, if injuries or other problems don't intervene. Note that is a major "if" in some cases.

Grade B prospects have a good chance to enjoy successful careers. Some will develop into stars, some will not. Most end up spending several years in the majors, at the very least in a marginal role.

Grade C prospects are the most common type. These are guys who have something positive going for them, but who may have a question mark or three, or who are just too far away from the majors to get an accurate feel for. A few Grade C guys, especially at the lower levels, do develop into stars. Many end up as role players or bench guys. Some don't make it at all.

A major point to remember is that grades for pitchers do NOT correspond directly to grades for hitters. Many Grade A pitching prospects fail to develop, often due to injuries. Some Grade C pitching prospects turn out much better than expected.

Also note that there is diversity within each category. I'm a tough grader; Grade C+ is actually good praise coming from me, and some C+ prospects turn out very well indeed.

Finally, keep in mind that all grades are shorthand. You have to read the full comment for my full opinion about a player, the letter grade only tells you so much. A Grade C prospect in rookie ball could end up being very impressive, while a Grade C prospect in Triple-A is likely just a future role player.

Kansas City Royals Top 20 Prospects

1) Mike Moustakas, 3B, Grade A: This guy is really damn good. I believe he can stick at third base, so he ranks ahead of Hosmer just barely.

2) Eric Hosmer, 1B, Grade A: This guy is really damn good.

3) Wil Myers, C, Grade A: If I trusted his defense a bit more, he would rank number one. As it is, even if he ends up in right field I have no hesitation giving him a Grade A rating. The bat should be outstanding.

4) Danny Duffy, LHP, Grade B+-: Originally a Grade A-, dropped one notch at book press time but still highest-rated in system.

5) Michael Montgomery, LHP, Grade B+: Worried a bit about future of his elbow, but I moved him ahead of Lamb because I do think his ultimate upside is a bit higher.

6) John Lamb, LHP, Grade B+: Slippage in Double-A keeps him from A- at this time, but an outstanding pros
pect.

7) Jake Odorizzi, RHP, Grade B+: A personal favorite since he was in high school. I love his combination of command and stuff.

8) Jeremy Jeffress, RHP, Grade B+: Grade is a bit risky due to command issues, but this is an upside call.

9) Chris Dwyer, LHP, Grade B: Almost went with a B+, but something holds me back a bit on him. Great stuff, but I'm not totally sold on his command yet.

10) Brett Eibner, OF, Grade B: I love the power bat; will have to see if contact is an issue and if he can stick in center.

11) Christian Colon, SS, Grade B: I doubt he'll be a star, but I expect he can have a long career as a regular.

12) Johnny Giavotella, 2B, Grade B-: Love the bat, defense still needs some work but has improved a bit.

13) Louis Coleman, RHP, Grade B-: I know he's a reliever, but he will be ready to help soon and I think there is a chance he could end up closing some games eventually. I think he is underrated and thus his grade is aggressive for a reliever.

14) Aaron Crow, RHP, Grade C+: Ranking him behind Coleman may look weird, but I am more confident that Coleman will be a good major league pitcher than I am in Crow right now, although Crow has a higher ceiling.

15) Tim Melville, RHP, Grade C+ Not a good year, but not as bad as it looked. Talent is still there.

16) Tim Collins, LHP, Grade C+: Can help in bullpen in 2011. Numbers are no fluke. Would rank ahead of Melville and even Crow if you are looking for immediate impact.

17) Patrick Keating, RHP, Grade C+: Overlooked arm with above average stuff. Royals have makings of a great pen with Coleman, Collins, and Keating all close to the majors.

18) Salvador Perez, C, Grade C+: I think he's a breakthrough candidate.

19) Cheslor Cuthbert, 3B, Grade C+: Hard to rank. Scouts like him, he's young, but the early numbers are weak. Would rank higher if you go by nothing but tools, wouldn't be on the top 20 at all if you go by numbers, so this is a compromise.

20) Clint Robinson, 1B, Grade C+: I've seen enough of him to believe he can mash for power, but finding a place to play is tough.

21) Jeff Bianchi, INF, Grade C+: Hard to rank due to health record. He could end up being very good as soon as 2011 under the right circumstances.

22) David Lough, OF, Grade C+: Could be a nice fourth outfielder.

23) Kevin Chapman, LHP, Grade C+: Another guy who can be a solid major league reliever pretty quickly.

24) Buddy Baumann, LHP, Grade C+: Overshadowed by the younger lefties, but should not be ignored.

25) Will Smith, LHP, Grade C+: I think he has a better chance to thrive here than he did with the Angels.

26) Robinson Yambati, RHP, Grade C+: Rookie ball guy could break through in '11.

27) Yordano Ventura, RHP, Grade C+: Rookie ball guy could break through in ‘11

28) Jason Adam, RHP, Grade C+: Just scouting reports so far on this one, but a local kid with a live arm that I have a good intuitive feeling about.

OTHERS:
Noel Arguelles, LHP; Mike Antonio, SS; Willian Avinazar, RHP; Jarrod Dyson, OF; Yowill Espinal, 2B; Nick Francis, OF; Blaine Hardy, LHP; Greg Holland, RHP; Lucas May, C; Paulo Orlando, OF; Edgar Osuna, LHP; Manny Pina, C; Derrick Robinson, OF; Leonel Santiago, RHP; Crawford Simmons, LHP; Tim Smith, OF; Everett Teaford, LHP

What can you say?

This is one hell of a farm system.

While the young pitching gets a large amount of attention, and deservedly so, the Royals also have three of the most elite young bats in baseball in the Moustakas/Hosmer/Myers troika. I'm also a huge fan of Brett Eibner. In addition to the possible future stars, they have considerable depth in C+ types, some projecting as role players, some as possible regulars if things pan out properly. The exact ranking of players 12 to 26 would vary depending on if you are looking short or long term.

Quote:

Originally Posted by doomy3 (Post 7345517)

If the Yankees offered Montero and Nunez for Soria, why the hell wouldn't we accept that. Accept that and run.

The problem with that trade is our contract with Soria is not just "club friendly", it is "holy crap why would Soria ever agree to that deal", club friendly.

We have Soria locked up for such a long time, at such a cheap price, that his value in a trade has to be very high.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth (Post 7345629)

I was thinking the Soria to Yankees rumor has been ongoing for awhile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KChiefs1 (Post 7345479)

DM turned down the Yankees offer for Soria according to this story:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba..._for_bria.html

So many problems with this article.

Escobar and Cain won't figure into the team in 11' or 12'? Most likely you are talking about our opening day SS and CF.

Soria will still under contract in 13-14. That is what makes him different than Greinke.

Plus he makes the Greinke haul sound terrible, im not jumping for joy over it but Escobar is a much better player than he is made out to be in this article.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wickedson (Post 7345585)

wtf? now the target year is 2014????

Ummm.... no, it is not. Unless you are talking about world championship contender, maybe.

We'll probably have a decent shot at being a .500 team in 2012, and we should be a winning team in 2013. 2014 isn't the "target", it is the "worst case scenario".