Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16923457)

I'm just going to say this, and then I'll bow out of this thread, because I'm not going to convince anyone on the Hopkins train that they're wrong, and you're not going to convince me that this is the way we should go.

The questions in the WR room are only questions to the fans. Veach and Reid (and Mahomes) know exactly where Toney and Moore are at. They're saying they expect them to step up and produce. Maybe their bluffing, but that's not really their style. Just because they haven't put up numbers YET doesn't mean it's the gaping hole you guys are afraid of.

Either way, I trust Veach and Reid to put a championship caliber roster on the field.

See y'all on other topics in other threads!

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 16923499)

No reason to split, Chris - I appreciate the convo.

I trust Veach as well - but expecting a guy that's never stayed healthy to stay healthy, and expecting a guy that did next to nothing in his rookie year have a massive breakout - it's a risk I'd rather they not take and potentially waste a prime Mahomes season.

This isn't even as much about Hopkins as it is the position in general - they need *someone* they can not only count on, but that will take some attention away from Kelce in that room - and I'm sorry - but we're going to have to be insanely lucky for it to be someone currently on the roster.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 16923499)

No reason to split, Chris - I appreciate the convo.

I trust Veach as well - but expecting a guy that's never stayed healthy to stay healthy, and expecting a guy that did next to nothing in his rookie year have a massive breakout - it's a risk I'd rather they not take and potentially waste a prime Mahomes season.

This isn't even as much about Hopkins as it is the position in general - they need *someone* they can not only count on, but that will take some attention away from Kelce in that room - and I'm sorry - but we're going to have to be insanely lucky for it to be someone currently on the roster.

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16923523)

What WR move should the Chiefs have made this offseason that they haven't?

The free agent class was absolutely garbage. The draft class is much weaker in the 1st than the last few years and the 4 round 1 guys all went after pick 19.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16923539)

Well, I don't think there's any way in hell this season is a waste, not even if they don't do a single thing between now and September at WR.

I think the worst case scenario is that Toney doesn't play much, Skyy is a bust, and we're like...around fifth in offense. But I expect the defense to make big strides with all of those rookies in year two, so I still fully expect to be right there in the play-offs, and at least in the AFCCG again. I mean a team that's top five in offense AND defense and has Mahomes? Yeah, I'd take those odds.

But I don't think that's what's going to happen, and if Veach and Reid think that might happen, they would've signed a Hopkins or a Beckham, and they'd have done it early when they had the money.

They don't now, not really, not without hurting the team in other spots, and soon.

We don't need to sell out for any ONE season right now. Maybe when Mahomes is 38, not 28 you do something like that.

I just think that Veach and Reid have a very different perspective on the WR room than we as fans do.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 16923545)

Nothing yet, that's a good point. There's a lot of time left to address the position. But it seems like the Cardinals want to all but give away an elite WR that by all accounts wants to be here.

Like I said in the last post - this isn't Hopkins or Bust (though I don't anticipate there being better options post-June 1st) but they need to address the position.

Richie James ain't it y'all.

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16923523)

What WR move should the Chiefs have made this offseason that they haven't?

The free agent class was absolutely garbage. The draft class is much weaker in the 1st than the last few years and the 4 round 1 guys all went after pick 19.

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16923555)

I personally think they get aggressive in round 2 and trade up for Mingo/Hyatt/Tillman or they get Hopkins.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 16923566)

Hope you're right - but even if Mingo (who I REALLY like) that doesn't solve the immediate need. (more than likely, based on WR's grasp of AR offenses historically)

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16923394)

Super Bowl window is open for about the next twelve years.

Last year, we went into the season with nothing but rookies at corner (and of course, Sneed) and didn't blink. Mid-season, we even traded the only other veteran corner on the roster for a ham sandwich. By late in the year, it was paying off. That's what you have to do to ALWAYS keep your window open. Now the secondary is a strength.

Maybe Toney does struggle to stay healthy. That's why they brought in Ritchie. Maybe MVS gets hurt; that's why they brought back Watson. They brought in insurance policies that can give you professional snaps, if not stars.

And I'm sure they'll draft a guy, but he's going to have to earn his way to the field and beat out four veterans for it, and it'll probably go a lot like Skyy Moore's season did, barring injury. But that doesn't mean he can't do it, as it didn't mean Moore couldn't. Now it's Moore's turn, and I think we're all going to be pleasantly surprised. I know Veach and Andy are expecting big things.

You pay a Hopkins, (who hasn't played a full season in two years, by the way) and that's almost two guys like Bolton, or Gay, or Sneed that you can't extend. It's having to make a choice between Creed or Smith, while having no choice but to let Thuney go. It doesn't 'open' a Super Bowl window, it shortens it. The bill comes due.

How many rings did Brady get without star WR free agents? You really think Mahomes and Reid can't do as well? And don't say Edelman or Welker-they weren't gamebreakers , they were each a slot possession guy. Moss was a headcase reclamation project, not a sought after star, and they didn't win one with him.

Just keep stacking good football players, maximizing cap and draft value, and put Mahomes + Best 52 out there and you've got as good of a shot as anyone every single year.

It's going to be okay.



You're paying Mahomes; you have to grow your own stars at the expensive positions like DE and WR.

You guys are going to have to get comfortable with having young question marks at a different group every off-season. Trust the braintrust at Arrowhead. They know what they're doing. I'm growing comfortable with being a little uncomfortable in the off-season.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 16923396)

It's frustrating - because I trust Veach 100%

Yet I can help but get some serious Michael Cherrito vibes from Heat

To Veach, the action IS the juice.

Judging seasons like Olympic sports. It's all about the difficulty level.

Hey Patrick - Win a SB with Kelce, Hill and a questionable defense.

Check.

Hey Patrick - Now win a SB with Kelce and Juju and a REALLY young defense.

Check.

Now? Hey Patrick, win a SB with Kelce and...

I'm going to be furious if we miss out on another SB because we're asking Mahomes to be even more of a miracle worker than he's already shown to be.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16923020)

At some point, you have to grow your own, not pay market price for other teams ' stars. It's not comfortable, but it's necessary, and is where KC is at right now.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 16923163)

Growing your own is fine - but the entire WR room at once while a SB window is open?

Right now you're looking at Toney - assuming he can stay healthy - and a WHOLE LOT of question marks.

Or, if you want to be a pessimist, you can assume Toney won't be able to stay healthy (he hasn't once in his career) and you have NOTHING but question marks.

They need some sort of a presence besides Kelce - MVS ain't it.

Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 16923169)

Seth said it best.

The ceiling is crazy high...but that floor. Woof. That floor is pretty ****ing low.

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 16923195)

Exactly. Toney is the only legit true WR talent in the building, everyone else is an unknown, several with serious issues, whether it's staying healthy, or not having any experience at all at the NFL level, or whatever. Toney goes down, we really don't have a plan B.

Personally, I think it's extremely doubtful we have both Ross guys suited up for 17 games this season. And I mean combined, not each. So, then what? Skyy becomes the WR1, one of the Ross boys becomes the 2?, and then maybe Richie? Justin Watson is more of a ST guy than a WR so far, but a decent backup for MVS in terms of role. But that's about it for him. He's not going to be the go-to WR in any scenario.

Then some are saying "that's why Gray and Fortson are on the roster!" Great. Except that when JuJu faded mid-season, those two didn't do anything. They finished the season with a combined 400 yards receiving and 3 TDs. Not impressive. And not dependable.

It's one thing to go into a season with no dependable WRs in Madden. It's another to do it in reality.

And Veach ain't that dumb. He's got a plan, and it's not "let's go into 2023 with this WR room and a rookie WR and just hope a couple of them just surprise the hell out of us with a top-15 season." That shouldn't be remotely a thing if Veach is as smart as we all think he is.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16923457)

I'm just going to say this, and then I'll bow out of this thread, because I'm not going to convince anyone on the Hopkins train that they're wrong, and you're not going to convince me that this is the way we should go.

The questions in the WR room are only questions to the fans. Veach and Reid (and Mahomes) know exactly where Toney and Moore are at. They're saying they expect them to step up and produce. Maybe their bluffing, but that's not really their style. Just because they haven't put up numbers YET doesn't mean it's the gaping hole you guys are afraid of.

Either way, I trust Veach and Reid to put a championship caliber roster on the field.

See y'all on other topics in other threads!

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 16923499)

No reason to split, Chris - I appreciate the convo.

I trust Veach as well - but expecting a guy that's never stayed healthy to stay healthy, and expecting a guy that did next to nothing in his rookie year have a massive breakout - it's a risk I'd rather they not take and potentially waste a prime Mahomes season.

This isn't even as much about Hopkins as it is the position in general - they need *someone* they can not only count on, but that will take some attention away from Kelce in that room - and I'm sorry - but we're going to have to be insanely lucky for it to be someone currently on the roster.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16923539)

I think the worst case scenario is that Toney doesn't play much, Skyy is a bust, and we're like...around fifth in offense. But I expect the defense to make big strides with all of those rookies in year two, so I still fully expect to be right there in the play-offs, and at least in the AFCCG again. I mean a team that's top five in offense AND defense and has Mahomes? Yeah, I'd take those odds.

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 16923687)

Um, no. If Toney misses half the season and Skyy busts, no way in hell we're 5th in offense. How do we do that, anyway? With MVS, Justyn, Justin and Richie? Whatever you're smoking, dial it back. We won't be top-10. Maybe top-13. But at that point it'll be just the Travis show and McKinnon if we get him back. And that's optimistic. It could be worse.


None of those others guys are going to command any respect from opposing defenses, except John Ross' sheer speed. The rest of them are pretty one-dimensional WRs. The only reason Toney and Skyy might be workable is that both are multiple in their talents/skillsets. Take the two of them off the field and we have a handful of limited WRs, each in their own way, but not very multiple.

And we've seen the results of putting a group of 3/4/5 level WRs on the field, with KC and other teams as well. It's not pretty.

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 16923695)

Blaspheme.

Originally Posted by Kiimosabi (Post 16923188)

People hating on Seth is so stupid, he puts in the time. He also loves what he saw on film. Awful? you're awful.





also this