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-   -   Royals 2011 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=240326)

alnorth 06-22-2011 04:55 PM
The batting order is so unimportant, I wont bother to complain. Use a random number generator for all I care.

DeezNutz 06-22-2011 04:59 PM
Can't dismiss the mental aspect of the game. My worry is that Gordon is now in a "power spot" in the order, and thus he changes his approach.

Three7s 06-22-2011 05:05 PM
Who cares about a shitty 100-loss team that's in last place? The order could have a bunch of local high school kids in it for all I care anymore.

Wickedson2.0 06-22-2011 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 7710364)
I don't want a slap hitting fatass in the 3 or 4 hole, especially when that slap hitting fatass seemingly always strikes out or pops when you need a flyball to score a run.
I agree.

Billy Butler is my #1 trade piece going forward in search of someone who can pitch.

DeezNutz 06-22-2011 05:51 PM
Royals Fan Syndrome Symptom #673: the best __ on the team is primarily responsible for the team sucking.

For further discussion, see: Sweeney, Mike.

Dr. Johnny Fever 06-22-2011 05:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 7710524)
Royals Fan Syndrome Symptom #673: the best __ on the team is primarily responsible for the team sucking.

For further discussion, see: Sweeney, Mike.
LMAO:thumb:

The Bunk 06-22-2011 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 7710405)
You guys with all these new numbers rely too heavily on these numbers to form an opinion.

Even though numbers are a bigger part of the game of baseball than any other sport, you still have to watch and form your own opinions by what you see.

What I see is a guy that is a good hitter, but that lacks power that he should have, and comes through in critical situations far less than other good hitters I've watched in the past.
I know, why bother forming an opinion based on facts or evidence when it's much easier to spew nonsense based on emotion.

Sure-Oz 06-22-2011 06:02 PM
Gordon batting cleanup interesting

milkman 06-22-2011 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 7710415)
Disagree with this completely, in a traditional scouting sense or by the numbers. His approach has been far more solid, up the middle and opposite field, but he's not ever going to be a power guy.

Butler is and should be a player who hits 20-25 HRs per year. Would I like better? Hell yes, but let's not undercut his value unnecessarily.

FYI: Escobar is slugging .318, which is still an embarrassing number at the moment. If he ends up being .250/.325/.375, that would be awesome, given his glove.

Regarding "clutch," I think it's tough to try to evaluate this period, let alone to rely upon anecdotal evidence about players from other eras. I think we tend to remember the good and forget the bad, whereas it's the opposite when you're watching a currently shitty team.
My point is that Escobar has nearly as many extra base hits as Billy Ray Fatass (10 fewer combined).

And I don't have to look back at past players to see players that have hit better in critical situations.

Alex Gordon and Melky Cabrera have had more hits in critical situations than Billy Ray Fatass this year, by far, and neither make me think "clutch"

Even Frenchy with all his struggles since the first month has been more effective in critical situations.

When looking at this lineup, there's about 5 guys I'd rather see at the plate ahead of Fatass in critical situations.

FringeNC 06-22-2011 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 7710405)
You guys with all these new numbers rely too heavily on these numbers to form an opinion.

Even though numbers are a bigger part of the game of baseball than any other sport, you still have to watch and form your own opinions by what you see.

What I see is a guy that is a good hitter, but that lacks power that he should have, and comes through in critical situations far less than other good hitters I've watched in the past.
Over the course of a 162-game season, stats win out. At a team level variation in OPS explains almost all variation in runs scored. If you want to know how good a hitter is, look at his OPS. Case closed. Clutch hitters may or may not exist, but if they do it's second order. Also, unlike football, team production synergies simply do not exist.

milkman 06-22-2011 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bunk (Post 7710538)
I know, why bother forming an opinion based on facts or evidence when it's much easier to spew nonsense based on emotion.
Yeah, because most dumbasses, like you, can't take emotion out of the mix.

But, you see, I can take emotion out.

For example, Joe Montana was my favorite non Chief.
Greatest QB ever.

But when the Chiefs traded for him, I absolutely hated the trade.

milkman 06-22-2011 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 7710555)
Over the course of a 162-game season, stats win out. At a team level variation in OPS explains almost all variation in runs scored. If you want to know how good a hitter is, look at his OPS. Case closed. Clutch hitters may or may not exist, but if they do it's second order. Also, unlike football, team production synergies simply do not exist.
I'm not sure what you mean by it's "second order".

FringeNC 06-22-2011 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 7710565)
I'm not sure what you mean by it's "second order".
Saber guys have tried to identify it. Some have found a little evidence for it and others have not. Overall, though, even those finding evidence for it have not found a big effect. You want someone to come through in a clutch situation, you want a guy up there with a high OPS.

milkman 06-22-2011 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 7710567)
Saber guys have tried to identify it. Some have found a little evidence for it and others have not. Overall, though, even those finding evidence for it have not found a big effect. You want someone to come through in a clutch situation, you want a guy up there with a high OPS.
If you get all your hits, including a lot of extra base hits, when there's no one on base, and you get a lot of them, you're still going to have a high OPS.

That number means nothing when it comes to getting hits in critical situations.

milkman 06-22-2011 06:26 PM
Give me the BA of players late in close games.

That's a number that means something in critical situations.


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